Nikon buys Red?

[ac6000cw]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

My guess is that the core RED stuff will remain largely unchanged for a time.  It'd be hard for any business not to love those margins.  I think the writing's been on the wall for a little while now, though, that aside from patent IP, RED's time as a viable company is limited.  Competition from cameras that cost 1/4 of their prices gets stiffer every year.

I agree - the RED cinema cameras will keep the RED branding - it would be silly to dilute/erase the RED brand image.

(pure speculation) From a branding point of view, maybe Nikon might add some subsidiary RED branding to few video-orientated hybids e.g. 'RED Cinema' or 'Video by RED', in the way Panasonic and Sony use the Leica and Zeiss branding on some products?

[MrSMW]

3 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

I agree - the RED cinema cameras will keep the RED branding - it would be silly to dilute/erase the RED brand image.

(pure speculation) From a branding point of view, maybe Nikon might add some subsidiary RED branding to few video-orientated hybids e.g. 'RED Cinema' or 'Video by RED', in the way Panasonic and Sony use the Leica and Zeiss branding on some products?

Sounds very sensible to me.

Unless it’s an asset stripping and rival preventing intention in which case possible short term gain, but probably little beyond that all factors considered.

[independent]

Wow. Industry disrupting actually. Nikon stole the competitive advantage of Red’s ridiculous patent. I’m wondering how fast they can implement this—how much time I have to liquidate my canon gear. 

[Video Hummus]

31 minutes ago, independent said:

Wow. Industry disrupting actually. Nikon stole the competitive advantage of Red’s ridiculous patent. I’m wondering how fast they can implement this—how much time I have to liquidate my canon gear. 

A few years. I have been disappointed with Canon’s third party lens fiasco, lack of mid-range quality L-glass, and some other things. My R5C is sold off. I kept the R5 for photos but might sell that off.

It says “wholly-owned subsidiary” of Nikon. So my guess is key technology will trickle from Red to Nikon (global shutter sensors, raw compression on high end Nikon gear, etc…) Red probably continue to do what they do but with Z-mount ecosystem integration.

I also wonder if this is a way for Nikon to break free from Sony Semi-conductor in a way with global sensor technology, which seems to be the direction the industry is going. 

[Snowfun]

The wider implications… if Nikon do incorporate RED technology in their consumer offerings, where does that leave Blackmagic? Braw vs R3D (with the added “advantage” of Nikon’s AF, lens mount and lenses etc.) It’s going to be interesting to see how other players respond. Panasonic to buy Blackmagic? 

@ac6000cw is possibly correct - it won’t be long before the RED label appears on a Nikon camera (or a skull) just like the Zeiss badge on Sony. 

Surprisingly muted at reduser. Perhaps they are now discovering the real meaning of telling their friends that they make Cool Pics…

[ac6000cw]

1 hour ago, Video Hummus said:

It says “wholly-owned subsidiary” of Nikon. So my guess is key technology will trickle from Red to Nikon (global shutter sensors, raw compression on high end Nikon gear, etc…) Red probably continue to do what they do but with Z-mount ecosystem integration.

Maybe they should introduce Z-mount versions of their (low-end, for RED) RF-mount Komodo cameras, branded 'Nikon RED', 'Z-RED' or 'RED-Z', with maybe switchable color science compatible with either Nikon hybrids like the Z8/Z9 or other RED cameras. That might provide upward and downward paths between RED and Nikon cameras without diluting the RED brand.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

Would be funny if the Z-mount Komodo gets launched as NIKOMODO.

[Jedi Master]

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Nikon refusing to renew patent / tech transfer for compressed Canon-RAW!

It'll all be moot in a few years anyway when RED's patent expires.

[JulioD]

@Jedi Master RED already re-upped their patent. 
 

This is about Nikon owning the IP that locks out their main competitors, which is not RED. 
 

But now Nikon control who gets to license it.

 

 

[JulioD]

@Jedi Master

https://ymcinema.com/2022/12/01/red-digital-cinema-filed-another-patent-related-to-compressed-raw/

 

Probably helped seal the deal. This is a common technique to extend patent IP

[Jedi Master]

1 hour ago, JulioD said:

@Jedi Master

https://ymcinema.com/2022/12/01/red-digital-cinema-filed-another-patent-related-to-compressed-raw/

 

Probably helped seal the deal. This is a common technique to extend patent IP

It'll be interesting to see if the new patent holds up in court. There will be several companies with deep pockets fighting to invalidate it.

[Eric Calabros]

3 minutes ago, Jedi Master said:

It'll be interesting to see if the new patent holds up in court. There will be several companies with deep pockets fighting to invalidate it.

Bigger than Apple? Although they didn't try hard. 

[Jedi Master]

9 minutes ago, Eric Calabros said:

Bigger than Apple? Although they didn't try hard. 

Not bigger than Apple, but there are plenty of companies much bigger than RED (and Nikon+RED).

[mercer]

This is crazy news. It'll be interesting to see what this means for both companies going forward... if anything. If Nikon were smart, their next generation of cameras should be utilizing RedCode... or is it ZedCode now? I assume it will have no immediate effect on Canon's RawLite if they had/have a licensing agreement with Red. I read somewhere that Red reversed engineered the RF mount, so it's possible that Canon and Red didn't have a real license agreement other than an agreement to leave each other alone for their individual patent infringements.

Since narrative filmmaking is my only interest, I'm kinda happy I decided to build a small set of Nikkor lenses... even if they're F mount ai-s lenses.

Personally, I would love to see Red make a video centric DSLR using the F mount... even though that's never going to happen.

Also Nikon made a couple fantastic Super 8 cameras back in the day, so it could be interesting to see them go retro with a Red powered, digital Super 8/S16 camera.

I'm not really interested in Z mount lenses, and have been looking towards Canon for any future camera upgrade but now I may have to start looking toward Nikon. Since I am only interested in Raw or ProRes acquisition, it'll be very interesting to see how this affects Canon going forward.

[mercer]

To add... this has been in the works for a while so I wouldn't be surprised if a cine camera pops up from Nikon/Red at this year's NAB, or if that new Nikon camera that's been rumored has RedCode built in.

[andrgl]

12 minutes ago, mercer said:

I'm not really interested in Z mount lenses, and have been looking towards Canon for any future camera upgrade but now I may have to start looking toward Nikon. Since I am only interested in Raw or ProRes acquisition, it'll be very interesting to see how this affects Canon going forward.

Right? This is such a wildcard change in the industry.

I was planning to switch to an R5 and R5C combo this year for Canon's 28-70MM f/2 zoom.

Now I'm going to wait and see what happens. I own no mirrorless glass so I have no bias, I'll choose whatever platform that suits me.

[JulioD]

I doubt we see REDCODE on a Nikon.  
 

But I bet this is why we have N-RAW.

And that’s all this is. 

[Eric Calabros]

37 minutes ago, mercer said:

To add... this has been in the works for a while so I wouldn't be surprised if a cine camera pops up from Nikon/Red at this year's NAB, or if that new Nikon camera that's been rumored has RedCode built in.

Its too soon for a collaborative work. But all they have to do, for now, is add REDCODE and active cooling to upcoming Z6III, and call it RED Phoenix or something, with $3k price.

 

3 minutes ago, JulioD said:

But I bet this is why we have N-RAW.

Having Nraw didn't prevent them to include ProresRAW in Z9. Unless REDCODE needs higher processing power Expeed 7 can't provide.

[mercer]

56 minutes ago, JulioD said:

I doubt we see REDCODE on a Nikon.  
 

But I bet this is why we have N-RAW.

And that’s all this is. 

What would be the point then? Red isn't a huge company with large profits but they do have RedCode with a great plug in workflow. I'd think it's the only reason for Nikon to purchase Red. 

[kye]

We all know the camera and imaging industry is being disrupted heavily, first with the move to digital that sunk Kodak, then with smartphones slowly eating the whole industry from the bottom up, and now right at the start of generative AI.  In situations like this market consolidation is an enormous game of 9-dimensional chess, so this move will be the result of more analysis than a person could read in a week, even if we had post-graduate qualifications in corporate law, economics, and accounting.

It's not like Nikon was sitting on a huge pile of cash to begin with - in this phase of a market disruption where the manufacturers are literally fighting to stay alive if this wasn't a great match for the two companies across many/most factors then it will be a mistake that might cost them everything.