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Nikon 8K mirrorless camera (Sony A1 clone)


Andrew Reid
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Keiji Oishi just said this in a DPR interview...

“A flagship Nikon Z-series mirrorless camera can be expected within the year, and is being developed with the goal of surpassing the D6. It will respond to the advanced needs of professionals. The upcoming model will debut a newly developed high-resolution stacked CMOS sensor. While this camera will be a major technological leap for still photographers of a wide variety of genres, our engineers are considering powerful video features such as 8K that respond to the needs of all kinds of content creators and professionals.”

“We consider 8K to be an important feature, in that the high resolution and high definition required in still photography is also important for video. It is likely that demand for high resolution and high definition will continue to expand, and especially considering that many of Nikon’s users are hybrid creators, it’s of utmost importance that the needs of videographers are met by offering attractive video features that push the boundary of what is possible.”

https://www.eoshd.com/news/nikon-promise-8k-mirrorless-camera-within-a-year-close-in-spec-to-sony-a1/

Funny way to announce a flagship camera over Zoom to the press 🙂

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Dpreview interviewed Nikon via e-mail, not Zoom.

 

Nikon didn't quite promise a 8K camera. They said "our engineers are considering powerful video features such as 8K". Also "A flagship Nikon Z series mirrorless camera can be expected within the year" is not quite a promise, my interpretation is that they are just saying it is likely to happen.

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Any camera manufacture beholden to buying Sony Semi. Conductors sensors are always fighting an up hill battle. You bet your ass Sony's contract around buying sensors from Sony Semi. Conductor is a good one. They always get the latest technology first.

The last generation of cameras were all using the same sensors. A7III, S5, Z6, SL2, Z7, S1R, SL2. I'm sure I'm forgetting some too. It's all about how they are wrapped now and I'm afraid all these other camera manufactures are doomed If they can't come up with better wrapping (AF, ergos, colors, codecs, processing, internal RAW).

Perhaps Nikon has an edge here with ProRes and BRAW. I just don't have much faith they can execute it well given their history.

And Canon, is well Canon. But at least they have DSLRs and mirrorless with internal RAW, albeit not very compressed RAW.

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7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

"...and especially considering that many of Nikon’s users are hybrid creators, it’s of utmost importance that the needs of videographers are met by offering attractive video features that push the boundary of what is possible.”

Hopefully that means inclusion of tools such as punch in focus while recording, anything but micro HDMI,  waveforms, timecode, and other such key tools video professionals expect. 

 

4 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

Any camera manufacture beholden to buying Sony Semi. Conductors sensors are always fighting an up hill battle. You bet your ass Sony's contract around buying sensors from Sony Semi. Conductor is a good one. They always get the latest technology first.

The last generation of cameras were all using the same sensors. A7III, S5, Z6, SL2, Z7, S1R, SL2. I'm sure I'm forgetting some too. It's all about how they are wrapped now and I'm afraid all these other camera manufactures are doomed.

Hopefully Panasonic's new organic sensor comes out and becomes mainstream sooner rather than later, to shake up this current near monopoly situation. 

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Just now, IronFilm said:

Hopefully Panasonic's new organic sensor comes out and becomes mainstream sooner rather than later, to shake up this current near monopoly situation. 

I think it will be Panasonics only saving grace, that, and continuing to bring more cinema level features to smaller and more affordable cameras.

S2H: "yeah we don't have good AF... but we got a new organic sensor with 18 stops dynamic range, built in eND, false color, and Varicam color science for $4K with a flip screen and tilt screen!

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25 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

I think it will be Panasonics only saving grace, that, and continuing to bring more cinema level features to smaller and more affordable cameras.

S2H: "yeah we don't have good AF... but we got a new organic sensor with 18 stops dynamic range, built in eND, false color, and Varicam color science for $4K with a flip screen and tilt screen!

And timecode! And waveforms! And TA3F with P48! And full size HDMI! (with an additional bonus mini SDI output?? Seriously, these heavily video focused cameras such as the S1H/GH5S/a7Smk3/etc should give us a second independent output. Then your on camera monitor could be log with info overlays, and the director etc can get a clean Rec709 feed)

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It certainly looks likes Nikon's R&D has produced their own in-house stacked CMOS technology, a 1-inch CMOS, 134dB at 60 fps, 110dB at 1000fps on a 4K x 4K sensor. It'll be interesting to see what else they've got up their sleeve with this tech in the 35mm and APS-C size categories. Ha! "Buh bye" Sony sensors?

Nikon | News | Development of a stacked CMOS image sensor

https://www.nikon.com/news/2021/0303_cmos_01.htm

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Pretty much everyone is using Sony sensors, yeah? (Canon excluded). So it’s more about HOW WELL they utilize and package the sensor than the sensor itself.

Let’s be honest, the S1H (AF excluded,) whoops most all other offerings. It’s about the closest a hybrid could ever be expected to get to a cine camera. I think it woke the Sony beast, and they realized that gatekeeping small bits of sensor tech is not a guaranteed safeguard against other companies making better cameras. It’s probably why Sony is handing out S-Cinetone and perfecting their AF (still no open gate video though.)
 

For me, at least, the S2H will be the decisive camera. Either it will have reliable AF and therefore be the camera to get, or it will come out with minor upgrades, and S1H prices will at least drop enough to make the S1H a no-brainer upgrade.

More importantly, a large coalition of camera manufacturers need to band together and challenge that idiotic RED raw garbage. I simply cannot understand why Blackmagic Design doesn’t fully open up their BRAW codec to any camera manufacturer that wants it for internal recording. If they did there’s no doubt in my mind it would swiftly overtake ProRes Raw as the new de-facto compressed raw codec, simultaneously rocketing Resolve to the top spot as an NLE. It might hurt sales of BM cameras in the short term, but that would be a small price to pay, and it also eliminates the idiotic Atmos monitor/recorder setups plaguing the market segment currently.

Im sure Nikon will utilize the sensor admirably, but it’s “more of the same” in the segment can only last so long before some player finds a way to break loose.

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https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicraw

Blackmagic BRAW

Open Standard and Free to Download
Cross platform and license free!

For Panasonic and others Blackmagic is a competitor in camera business, so they prefer to use their own codecs internally. I doubt any Japanese camera brand will ever put BRAW inside their cameras. They didn't put ProRes codec too. Which is a pity because BRAW is very good codec and integrate so well with Resolve. And only Nikon and Sigma allow use of  Blackmagic external recorders.  Panasonic and Sony don't. Again for business reasons. 

It's another story if those buisness reasons are valid or not.

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6 hours ago, Jimmy G said:

It certainly looks likes Nikon's R&D has produced their own in-house stacked CMOS technology, a 1-inch CMOS, 134dB at 60 fps, 110dB at 1000fps on a 4K x 4K sensor. It'll be interesting to see what else they've got up their sleeve with this tech in the 35mm and APS-C size categories. Ha! "Buh bye" Sony sensors?

Nikon | News | Development of a stacked CMOS image sensor

https://www.nikon.com/news/2021/0303_cmos_01.htm

Pity they don't have any Nikon 1 series cameras to put it in!

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19 hours ago, stephen said:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicraw

Blackmagic BRAW

Open Standard and Free to Download
Cross platform and license free!

For Panasonic and others Blackmagic is a competitor in camera business, so they prefer to use their own codecs internally. I doubt any Japanese camera brand will ever put BRAW inside their cameras. They didn't put ProRes codec too. Which is a pity because BRAW is very good codec and integrate so well with Resolve. And only Nikon and Sigma allow use of  Blackmagic external recorders.  Panasonic and Sony don't. Again for business reasons. 

It's another story if those buisness reasons are valid or not.

This is a free and open SDK only for cross-platform decoding as far as I can tell, not for in-camera encoding. Sure, they’ve made it free and open for 3rd party developers to implement it in their software, but I don’t get the sense it’s open-use for cameras. 

There may still be other reasons Japan wouldn’t use it as you’ve mentioned, but then they’re each going to end up with their own “RED Patent Workaround” RAW codec. 

I wish Blackmagic would work out a way to convert other RAW format footage in post into BRAW (ProRes, CDNG, etc.) because it edits so smooth and stores permanently at reasonable file sizes. 

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A Nikon A1 clone has all the chances of being the better (selling?) product:

1. Sony bodies has always been criticized for subpar ergonomics, menus etc.

2. Compete on price, Sony is very expensive.

3. No cinema line to protect, so lots of video features.

4. Nikon colors may suit some people more than Sony's.

5. Make big claims about weather sealing.

6. AF should be reasonably good, it doesn't not need to be every superlative ever conceived.

7. The market is in no rush for 8K, so take the time to make a really robust implementation.

8. Do some A1 user research, see what they dislike and like after using it.

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A Nikon mirrorless hybrid with internal BRAW would be high on my list if implemented.  If external BRAW, then less so.  If they want to set themselves apart from Sony, Canon and Panasonic fullframe, adding internal BRAW would be an advanatage.  Don't hold back on video, though I won't hold them to a ND filter...  even if it would be desirable.

Canons hybrids still have their limits, Panasonic keeps missing on AF, Sony is doing well, but their main video hybrid is only 12mp, which for some is seen as too small for the hybrid work they do.  So Nikon have a chance to fill the gap. 

I'm awaiting the first fullframe hybrid with a better internal codec than H264/5.  Will Nikon be the first?

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3 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

A Nikon A1 clone has all the chances of being the better (selling?) product:

1. Sony bodies has always been criticized for subpar ergonomics, menus etc.

Sony turned it around. The A7S III is pretty good ergonomically. So is the A1.

Took them a hell of a long time but they did it.

3 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

2. Compete on price, Sony is very expensive.

Yeah Nikon Z6 is cheap for a reason though.

I remember paying 3800 euros for Z7 body only when it came out. 6 months later was worth just 2 grand.

I bought A7R IV for £2300...pretty good deal, have enjoyed it.

Yes A7S III is more expensive but you get a lot of features for 3K! Better than some $10k cinema cameras.

3 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

3. No cinema line to protect, so lots of video features.

Hasn't really worked out that way so far.

Sony, Panasonic and even now Canon have more than Nikon so far.

3 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

4. Nikon colors may suit some people more than Sony's.

No denying that. But again A7S III is a big improvement.

3 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

5. Make big claims about weather sealing.

6. AF should be reasonably good, it doesn't not need to be every superlative ever conceived.

AF needs to step up from Z6 especially with FTZ adapter, it was OK but pretty clunky by pro standards.

3 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

7. The market is in no rush for 8K, so take the time to make a really robust implementation.

True.

3 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

8. Do some A1 user research, see what they dislike and like after using it.

I think they will find it hard to pick holes in the A1 to be honest.

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Yeah Nikon is really lackluster for not having a cine line to protect. Whats the deal with that? Do they just not think its worth it to put any money into mirrorless these days? 

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