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Canon R6 overheats as well.


Matthew19

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R6 will overheat in 4K60p after 30-40mn & in 4K30p after 40-50mn (depending on FF/S35 modes). Shouldn't be any overheating issues in 4K24p/25p. Let's just remember we're talking FF no cr

I tried to tease the basics out of him but he was having none of it. Just the usual Cinema5D c**ty line of "you're just a tester, leave the actual filmmaking work to us"!

@ade towell There are two ways of looking at this, glass half-empty or half-full. Andrew made a good post about this: https://www.eoshd.com/8k/a-closer-look-at-the-canon-eos-r5-lower-quality-4k-mode-t

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R6 will overheat in 4K60p after 30-40mn & in 4K30p after 40-50mn (depending on FF/S35 modes).

Shouldn't be any overheating issues in 4K24p/25p.

Let's just remember we're talking FF no crop oversampled 4K60p with DPAF in 10-bit 4:2:2 internal.

In comparison, the only hybrid camera on the market that can get close to that is the almost twice more expensive S1H which can only do 4K60p with a S35 crop in 10-bit 4:2:0 longGOP and poor contrast AF... and that camera has active cooling on board!

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Why would it overheat in 4K 30p and not 24/25p? Makes no sense whatsoever.

But I’m really interested in the 1080p ALL-I from that 20mpx sensor and how it is derived - that is if it will be GH5 and Z50 class (also 20mpx sensors).

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26 minutes ago, Django said:

R6 will overheat in 4K60p after 30-40mn & in 4K30p after 40-50mn (depending on FF/S35 modes).

Shouldn't be any overheating issues in 4K24p/25p.

Let's just remember we're talking FF no crop oversampled 4K60p with DPAF in 10-bit 4:2:2 internal.

In comparison, the only hybrid camera on the market that can get close to that is the almost twice more expensive S1H which can only do 4K60p with a S35 crop in 10-bit 4:2:0 longGOP and poor contrast AF... and that camera has active cooling on board!

Still a bit disappointing though no? At least for me being able to film without worry of overheating is one of the most important things

I thought the R6 had bit of a crop in all 4k modes?

The S1H is £3600 the R6 £2500 here in the UK but I get your point. I think the R6 has a lot going for it but there are many ways in which the S1H is a better camera at least for video

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28 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

Why would it overheat in 4K 30p and not 24/25p? Makes no sense whatsoever.

But I’m really interested in the 1080p ALL-I from that 20mpx sensor and how it is derived - that is if it will be GH5 and Z50 class (also 20mpx sensors).


It is not ALL-I, it is IPB (it uses ALL-I for timelapse and 120fps)

See it here, I would bet it is very very similar between the 1DX III and the R6 except more compression.

Definitely not 4K quality, but pretty decent for 1080p line-skipped, better than the EOS R (which is pretty decent imho) almost no rolling shutter and no overheating.
If I get this camera, I probably will utilise this mode.

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@ade towell There are two ways of looking at this, glass half-empty or half-full. Andrew made a good post about this: https://www.eoshd.com/8k/a-closer-look-at-the-canon-eos-r5-lower-quality-4k-mode-to-avoid-thermal-cut-off/

R5/R6 can be used without overheating issues. If you want maximum performance (which no other hybrid camera can currently give you) well you are prone to thermal cut off limits and high RS. I think it's a fair trade-off situation and Canon are being open about it as opposed to Sony.

Concerning the R6 4K crop, it is of x1.07. It apparently takes a 4K DCI image and truncates it to UHD. No biggie.

As for the S1H being a better hybrid video camera, that is subjective. The poor AF and weight (1Kg vs 680g) makes it a no go for me personally and if you want FF no crop 4K60p in 10-bit.. only R5/R6 will give you that. But of course YMMV.

 

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22 minutes ago, padam said:


It is not ALL-I, it is IPB (it uses ALL-I for timelapse and 120fps)

I’m certain I’ve seen the option of recording 1080p 24/25/30 ALL-I in the R6. It’s the 4K options that are strictly limited to IPB from what I understand.

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1 hour ago, Django said:

R6 will overheat in 4K60p after 30-40mn & in 4K30p after 40-50mn (depending on FF/S35 modes).

Shouldn't be any overheating issues in 4K24p/25p.

Let's just remember we're talking FF no crop oversampled 4K60p with DPAF in 10-bit 4:2:2 internal.

In comparison, the only hybrid camera on the market that can get close to that is the almost twice more expensive S1H which can only do 4K60p with a S35 crop in 10-bit 4:2:0 longGOP and poor contrast AF... and that camera has active cooling on board!

But where you hear 30-40 and 40-50 min? That lady in OP clip strictly said 30 and 40 min respectively (in theory)... and than, almost as a joke, proceeds with claim that even scrolling through menu system camera accumulate heat! That means, it IMO looks more realistically to turn down strict quote in real field usage... I'm afraid 30-20 min for 4 4k60p and 40-30 min for 4k30... all of that without raw flexibility.

Actually, I'm more concerned about those notion of inevitable cumulative effect of heating. (Also I'm little bit more interested about info of comparative DR). All in all, it seems very hard to use even R6 as reliable camera.. of course, Canon colors and grading SOC easiness are pure delight and IBIS is so great to have! What a pity... plus that damned miniHDMI connector, I must have external 7 inch monitor for manual focusing 😞

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48 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

I’m certain I’ve seen the option of recording 1080p 24/25/30 ALL-I in the R6. It’s the 4K options that are strictly limited to IPB from what I understand.


I don't see it here or on the full spec list, only for time-lapse movie mode, or the separate 1080p120fps slow-motion recording mode.

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1 hour ago, Django said:

@ade towell There are two ways of looking at this, glass half-empty or half-full. Andrew made a good post about this: https://www.eoshd.com/8k/a-closer-look-at-the-canon-eos-r5-lower-quality-4k-mode-to-avoid-thermal-cut-off/

R5/R6 can be used without overheating issues. If you want maximum performance (which no other hybrid camera can currently give you) well you are prone to thermal cut off limits and high RS. I think it's a fair trade-off situation and Canon are being open about it as opposed to Sony.

Concerning the R6 4K crop, it is of x1.07. It apparently takes a 4K DCI image and truncates it to UHD. No biggie.

As for the S1H being a better hybrid video camera, that is subjective. The poor AF and weight (1Kg vs 680g) makes it a no go for me personally and if you want FF no crop 4K60p in 10-bit.. only R6 will give you that. But of course YMMV.

 

It is indeed subjective and that's cool, and I won't bore you with all the reasons the SH1 is a better video camera to me. I just find it interesting that all Canon fans seem to be OK about these limitations and don't see an issue with overheating in cameras being released at these prices in 2020. Instead they seek to justify it or cherry pick all the other stuff

I still have a Canon camera and lenses but don't feel the need to defend them when they release cameras that can't be relied upon in many working environments, which I have to say is something I never thought they would do. They used to be so reassuringly conservative. I congratulate them on finally stepping up and pushing the tech, but they should have made the camera body able to cope with it. Not give excuses

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13 minutes ago, ade towell said:

It is indeed subjective and that's cool, and I won't bore you with all the reasons the SH1 is a better video camera to me. I just find it interesting that all Canon fans seem to be OK about these limitations and don't see an issue with overheating in cameras being released at these prices in 2020. Instead they seek to justify it or cherry pick all the other stuff

I still have a Canon camera and lenses but don't feel the need to defend them when they release cameras that can't be relied upon in many working environments, which I have to say is something I never thought they would do. They used to be so reassuringly conservative. I congratulate them on finally stepping up and pushing the tech, but they should have made the camera body able to cope with it. Not give excuses

First, the basher group needs to provide counter-examples to prove that Canon's engineers are "being lazy". We can all agree that keeping a powerful IBIS and DPAF system fully operating, while decoding masses of data to memory cards means the camera's processing really takes a beating.

Yes, we have the FF S1 series that cope well with heat. But they are a lot bigger and heavier and they stick to using contrast-detect AF, that probably helps with the processing power.
They rely more on using external recorders to unlock all features.
There is also a crop on the 4k60p video, too and a 24MP stills camera is not the same as a 45MP stills camera with a much more powerful AF system.

Once we see more cameras that do provide what the R5 and R6 are capable of (for both photo as well as video), we will probably see the overheating rear its ugly head as well. That's probably the reality of it.

In the past Canon has designed their cameras for a longer product cycle. That means they are confident that they won't suddenly get left behind by other future cameras and they might employ other tricks to help with these issues, look at this one for instance:

https://www.canonnews.com/canon-patent-application-canon-ef-to-rf-sensor-cooling-adapter

(although I think this is probably more for astrophotography rather than recording high-res video)

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17 minutes ago, padam said:

First, the basher group needs to provide counter-examples to prove that Canon's engineers are "being lazy". We can all agree that keeping a powerful IBIS and DPAF system fully operating, while decoding masses of data to memory cards means the camera's processing really takes a beating.

Yes, we have the FF S1 series that cope well with heat. But they are a lot bigger and heavier and they stick to using contrast-detect AF, that probably helps with the processing power.
They rely more on using external recorders to unlock all features.
There is also a crop on the 4k60p video, too and a 24MP stills camera is not the same as a 45MP stills camera with a much more powerful AF system.

Once we see more cameras that do provide what the R5 and R6 are capable of (for both photo as well as video), we will probably see the overheating rear its ugly head as well. That's probably the reality of it.

In the past Canon has designed their cameras for a longer product cycle. That means they are confident that they won't suddenly get left behind by other future cameras and they might employ other tricks to help with these issues, look at this one for instance:

https://www.canonnews.com/canon-patent-application-canon-ef-to-rf-sensor-cooling-adapter

(although I think this is probably more for astrophotography rather than recording high-res video)

I'm not accusing Canon of being lazy I just want them to release a product I can rely on to get me through a day of filming. Instead of trying to overtake everybody else with something unreliable why not just play catch up 1st and give us something with solid 4k 10 bit that will work in every mode, and let their AF and nice colour do the talking to the zillions of Canon lens owners who will buy whatever they release anyway

I hope as you say this isn't the new norm with cameras overheating as they all try and out do each other. That would suck

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4 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Same overheating and rolling shutter problems to the 4 years old $1200 Sony A6300.

I don't think it is anywhere the same thing.
That is an APS-C sensor, no IBIS, no 10-bit, no 4k60p, no 4k120p and it overheats quicker than what they are quoting for the R5

I would like to see the exact same feature set to compare against (and not just evaluated as a video camera, but also as a stills camera)

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2 hours ago, Django said:

@ade towell There are two ways of looking at this, glass half-empty or half-full. Andrew made a good post about this: https://www.eoshd.com/8k/a-closer-look-at-the-canon-eos-r5-lower-quality-4k-mode-to-avoid-thermal-cut-off/

R5/R6 can be used without overheating issues. If you want maximum performance (which no other hybrid camera can currently give you) well you are prone to thermal cut off limits and high RS.

 

But that's actually not true - other cameras such as the Panasonic S1H record oversampled 10bit 4:2:2 Full Frame 4K  without any thermal issues.

You basically got three options now:

1) Sony A7iii: oversampled 4K, but only 8bit, passive cooling

2) Panasonic: oversampled 4K, 10bit, with active cooling

3) Canon: 4k 10bit, but only with line-skipping/binning if you want continuous recording, passive cooling + "turbo" or "burst" modes with overheating issues

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4 minutes ago, ade towell said:

I'm not accusing Canon of being lazy I just want them to release a product I can rely on to get me through a day of filming. Instead of trying to overtake everybody else with something unreliable why not just play catch up 1st and give us something with solid 4k 10 bit that will work in every mode, and let their AF and nice colour do the talking to the zillions of Canon lens owners who will buy whatever they release anyway

I hope as you say this isn't the new norm with cameras overheating as they all try and out do each other. That would suck

Canon's way is to release a separate video-centric camera with active cooling and a dedicated sensor that will run for many hours without issues. It won't be a usable stills camera.

We just don't know when and for how much but looking at the XC15, it is certainly possible to design something like that with a bigger sensor and an RF-mount.

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