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My experience upgrading to Sony FS5 or FS5ii in 2020


baker21

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Hey guys,

I wanted to let everyone know my experience so far after upgrading to a Sony FS5 in 2020. With all the camera options out there is the FS5 and FS5ii still worth it in 2020?

With all the options out there is the FS5 right for you?  Comes down to your needs but for me it checked all my boxes.

FS5 is light and portable and can be rigged.up to fly on modern gimbals easily.  It also can be shoulder mounted with help of 3rd party accessories,  I recommend smallrig bc of versatility and build quality, and price.

Coming from A7riii the learning curve and all the buttons on side looked daunting. But I suggest getting Doug Jensens course masterclass FS5 off vimeo which took me through step by step to learn camera inside out. Plus also get his vortex media PP for straight out of camera shots. Sooc.

After learning the camera and the PP and slog2, you shoot over exposed in slog so you set your zebras and your good to go.

What unleashes the power of this camera is the RAW sdi output. The FS5 has 3x firmware paid upgrades. 1. Raw, 2. HFR 3. MPEG codec. Each are $500. With these upgrades installed the FS5 becomes a FS5ii, minus PP1. Which on m2 has different color science on pp1, but when you shoot slog 2 and raw or any other PP above 7, then the RAW out thru SDI is all the same.

To unleash this power you must purchase the atomos shogun inferno which I did. This gives you ability to do prores raw 12 bit to an ssd. The cost of ssd have come down and 500gb cost $65. Spots as affordable medium.

The reason I chose the FS5 vs a BMPCC 4k or 6k , or canon c200. Or eva1 or ursa cane down to a few reasons.

 

1. Price - most bang for your buck

2. Auto ND filter - is a game changer. Best thing ever.

3. IQ - with external recorder 12 bit prores raw is powerful

4.  Versatility , I can go from tripod, to shoulder mount, to monopod, to gimbal

5. Battery Life,  I can use BPU60 batteries to power both the FS5 and Shogun 7in at the same time and get about 2 hrs of juice.

6. E mount - I am already invested heavily in E mount glass so that played a role.

7. Speedbooster to get FF look. I can use a speedbooster to get that FF dof with any EF glass.

8. Centerscan - allows the use of my vtg som. Berthiot and bell and howell vtg lenses for video with no vignette. Also use clear image zoom in 4k mode to 1.5 zoom. No vignettes.

9. Slow motion - 2k 240fps continuous prores raw. HFR - 4k 120p 7 sec burst.

10.  Professional and Outputs.  XLR audio inputs and SDI outputs are professional grade. Multiple inputs for professional sound. And professional SDI output which is night and day  better vs consumer HDMI..

For my situation and needs, the auto ND is only offered through Sony.  The auto ND has changed everything.  It allows you to shoot w an extra parameter that auto adjusts on fly realtime. No other camera offers Auto ND.

Its amazing.. truly amazing..

As for anyone who says sony color science is awful. Blah blah blah.. yes if you shoot naked in pp1 or pp2 default.  But you can make changes in paint menu and use Eos HD pp or Vortex media  pp if you need a baked in shot.

But if you got an atomos your gonna be shooting slog2 or slog2 and sony has technical luts to get the images right there w lil work in post. If you are efficient and just have a little knowledge in resolve you can make your image quality match any other camera on list above.

If you are looking to buy Sony FS7 or FS5 now is the time with finding amazing deals online. Remember FS5 is same as FS5ii if it has the upgrades. Minus pp1. Which m2 has a better color science baked in for just pp1. But slog2 and slog2 and raw out all have same look. After all it's the same sensor.

My experience has been pretty amazing so far. With release of fx9 and soon to be fx6. Prices will drop even farther. If your invested in sonys eco system maybe it's right for you.  if your invested in Canon EF glass the fs5 allows you to use a speedbooster to turn camera into FF and gain an extra stop if light. Pretty kool.

What this camera is NOT...

1. It's not the low light king. If u want low light use a A7sii or A7riii w BSI sensors or use new FX9 or FX6 when it drops.

2. Real cinema cameras dont have AF. But that's about to change. Get FX9 for eye AF if invested in E mount glass. If you got EF glass the c200 has Dual pixel AF and so does the C100 new. Version though no 4k in the c100. Also I'm told the c200 build quality is very thin cheap plastic, though I have no experience.

Ultimately at the end of the day, the Atomos  Shogun unlocks full potential of the FS5 and delivers prores raw to the masses in 4k DCI 12 bit raw. The newest $11k at the moment can only do UHD.

As for prores raw workflows, at this time Mar 2020. Prores raw is on FCPx on mac. Windows users will need assimilate scratch 9.1 to be able to transcode on windows.

Avid media composer and premiere pro both stated in Sept 2019 they will build in natively prores raw support. I know Adobe is still working on it and not available yet as if March 2020, and avid media composer I do not know if its available yet.

I can confirm 100% assimilate scratch9.1 works with prores raw on windows and you can transcode from there.

Da Vinci resolve does not allow prores raw but they may allow prores? I dont know I will have to 2x check that or have some1 more knowledge comment.

Once its released thru adobe pp and avid that will cement prores raw for years to come as a raw format .

I have only had my new camera for a few weeks but I have been tickled pink with the IQ and looks I'm getting not to mention the price I was able to get it for.  The camera is a workhorse so far.  Its gone above and beyond my expectations.  I will continue to update my experiences but dont think bc its 5 yrs old it's not able to get the job done. With the prores raw 12bit sdi out, I would put that IQ against anything out there. If u need FF get a speedbooster and use EF glass.  The prices have dropped on FS5 and FS7 but these guys hold their own even to the newest latest and greatest.

 

 

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, baker21 said:

What unleashes the power of this camera is the RAW sdi output. The FS5 has 3x firmware paid upgrades. 1. Raw, 2. HFR 3. MPEG codec. Each are $500.

Ouch! US$1500 is a LOT  to spend on firmware upgrades on a camera which is barely worth more than that secondhand. 
 

23 hours ago, baker21 said:

My experience has been pretty amazing so far. With release of fx9 and soon to be fx6. Prices will drop even farther.


I'm kinda hoping the Coronavirus/Recession (plus of course the FX9/FX6, and whatever Canon does to apply further pressure) will push the FS7 to be as cheap as a FS5! 

  

23 hours ago, baker21 said:

Ultimately at the end of the day, the Atomos  Shogun unlocks full potential of the FS5 and delivers prores raw to the masses in 4k DCI 12 bit raw. The newest $11k at the moment can only do UHD.


Wish Atomos would release a "Samurai V" (like a Blade V, but with SDI instead of HDMI!), that would make an excellent compact recorder/monitor for the FS5/FS700. Personally I feel 7" is sometimes too much to match with a FS5/FS700

The $11K FX9 is going to get 4K DCI in a firmware update btw.

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Currently in the honeymoon phase with my FS5. I bought mine mid summer last year and it took a couple of months to get the images I wanted from it. Here's a mix of games I shot a few weeks ago.

10 bit 422 240fps in 1080p with no crop has been amazing. 

Variable ND filter is a game changer as well. 

FS7 dropping in price is tempting ngl, but the FS5 is so much smaller and easier to travel with. 

FX9 inside of an FS5 body (which is definitly possible) is my dream camera.

Great DR, class leading cine cam autofocus, class leading cine cam lowlight performance with dual native iso, variable ND, great mic preamps, and a rugged body. 😵

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22 minutes ago, Mako Sports said:

Currently in the honeymoon phase with my FS5. I bought mine mid summer last year and it took a couple of months to get the images I wanted from it. Here's a mix of games I shot a few weeks ago.

10 bit 422 240fps in 1080p with no crop has been amazing. 

Variable ND filter is a game changer as well. 

FS7 dropping in price is tempting ngl, but the FS5 is so much smaller and easier to travel with. 

FX9 inside of an FS5 body (which is definitly possible) is my dream camera.

Great DR, class leading cine cam autofocus, class leading cine cam lowlight performance with dual native iso, variable ND, great mic preamps, and a rugged body. 😵

Those are some great images. I'd love to know more about your technique. Are you shooting locked down on a tripod? Are you delivering real-time game footage or just b-roll style highlight packages? Stuff like that. Just curious. 

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48 minutes ago, EphraimP said:

Those are some great images. I'd love to know more about your technique. Are you shooting locked down on a tripod? Are you delivering real-time game footage or just b-roll style highlight packages? Stuff like that. Just curious. 

Thanks, I always shoot on a tripod. I deliver B-roll style highlight mixes after the game.

I plan to make some videos about how I shoot, although the Covid19 outbreak has put a halt on sports stuff I can shoot. 

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1 hour ago, Mako Sports said:

10 bit 422 240fps in 1080p with no crop has been amazing. 

Variable ND filter is a game changer as well. 

FS7 dropping in price is tempting ngl, but the FS5 is so much smaller and easier to travel with. 

FX9 inside of an FS5 body (which is definitly possible) is my dream camera.

Great DR, class leading cine cam autofocus, class leading cine cam lowlight performance with dual native iso, variable ND, great mic preamps, and a rugged body. 😵

Great work. The opening shot of the video you posted is amazing. Just the determination on the face of the athletes in the first scene draws you in. 

Any idea why male players are required to wear a full helmet and cage while female players only wear goggles? Are women somehow immune to concussions / head trauma???

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Just now, Mark Romero 2 said:

Great work. The opening shot of the video you posted is amazing. Just the determination on the face of the athletes in the first scene draws you in. 

Any idea why male players are required to wear a full helmet and cage while female players only wear goggles? Are women somehow immune to concussions / head trauma???

It was really due to the fact that Wlax is a non contact sport, but they are starting to implement helmets for the women's game.

I believe there are only 2 states rn that mandate the use of a helmet for Wlax, funny thing is the girls refuse to wear them because they look ugly. The women's helmet is actually soft and pliable so if you hit a girl in the head that doesn't have one they wont get concussed.

Once helmets are mandated/required for all levels of play they will probably switch to hardshell helmets like the men's game.  

image.thumb.png.1295cb2068f0849b15bca285185bace2.pngimage.thumb.png.f1e37360319ea3a760e76fb43ecc4bc9.png

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48 minutes ago, Mako Sports said:

Thanks, I always shoot on a tripod. I deliver B-roll style highlight mixes after the game.

I plan to make some videos about how I shoot, although the Covid19 outbreak has put a halt on sports stuff I can shoot. 

I look forward to seeing them once things go back to normal. I've always used cheap fluid heads for basic pans and tilts, of course. Just recently, I bought my first pro-level, fully adjustable fluid head and it has really opened up a whole new level of locked down movement now that I can balance the camera and adjust tension levels correctly to get the most out of the head.

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20 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Thanks for the explanation. I always like how they describe a sport as "non-contact." Seems to me there is a lot of contact in "non-contact" sports.

As a person who lives in a rugby mad nation it seems utterly MAD how much protection your "contact sports" players wear though. 

Looks ridiculous how much the NFL wears 

Studs, stubbies, and a jersey is all you need to wear mate. 

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$1500 in upgrades + a used FS5 + a Shogun also puts you into something like a Z cam S6 which does 6k raw, HFR, 10-bit Prores and has a E-nd mount. Plus it can record that to relatively inexpensive SSD's and its getting regular improvements since its release as the team keeps unlocking more untapped potential. You could probably get the full-frame F6 for the cost of a FS5 raw kit TBH. Plus you can talk to the head of the company and the main engineer in the Zcam facebook group. I love what Zcam is doing.

Cool you found a solution though, I feel like I'm always turning over gear trying to find a better way of doing things.

Chris

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

As a person who lives in a rugby mad nation it seems utterly MAD how much protection your "contact sports" players wear though. 

Looks ridiculous how much the NFL wears 

Studs, stubbies, and a jersey is all you need to wear mate. 

Two words. Concussion lawsuits.

Chris

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1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

$1500 in upgrades + a used FS5 + a Shogun also puts you into something like a Z cam S6 which does 6k raw, HFR, 10-bit Prores and has a E-nd mount.

The key is to find a FS5 (or a FS700!) which already has the 4K raw upgrade! As they often sell for similar prices as those which don't!
 

1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

Two words. Concussion lawsuits.

USA is far far too trigger happy when it comes to lawsuits. 
(even though some evidence indicates all that armour makes the risks WORSE)

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9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

The key is to find a FS5 (or a FS700!) which already has the 4K raw upgrade! As they often sell for similar prices as those which don't!
 

Haven't searched too hard for bargain prices, but don't you still need a SDI recorder to capture raw? Once you get there, you're in the neighborhood (or do you spell it neighhbourhood?) of a E2-S6 with the E-ND mount. Just saying there are others in the same price bracket.

Not to go OT, but I did see a DPAF c100 for $600 USD, which seems insane.

Chris

On 3/17/2020 at 12:46 PM, Mako Sports said:

Currently in the honeymoon phase with my FS5. I bought mine mid summer last year and it took a couple of months to get the images I wanted from it. Here's a mix of games I shot a few weeks ago.

10 bit 422 240fps in 1080p with no crop has been amazing. 

Variable ND filter is a game changer as well. 

FS7 dropping in price is tempting ngl, but the FS5 is so much smaller and easier to travel with. 

FX9 inside of an FS5 body (which is definitly possible) is my dream camera.

Great DR, class leading cine cam autofocus, class leading cine cam lowlight performance with dual native iso, variable ND, great mic preamps, and a rugged body. 😵

Your stuff is incredibly well done, you've really found your niche. Size-wise the FS5 is pretty much perfect for a run and gun camcorder, its not much bigger than a DSLR with everything stripped off it.

Chris

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15 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

Haven't searched too hard for bargain prices, but don't you still need a SDI recorder to capture raw? Once you get there, you're in the neighborhood (or do you spell it neighhbourhood?) of a E2-S6 with the E-ND mount. Just saying there are others in the same price bracket.

Not to go OT, but I did see a DPAF c100 for $600 USD, which seems insane.

Chris

Your stuff is incredibly well done, you've really found your niche. Size-wise the FS5 is pretty much perfect for a run and gun camcorder, its not much bigger than a DSLR with everything stripped off it.

Chris

Thanks! And yeah I really the FS5 size its not so light that you run into issues with micro jitters like how I did when I had the A6300, and its not as big and bulky like a FS7 or C200/C300 with the top handle and LCD array. 

 I wish both XLR inputs were on the body like the EVA 1 or FS7 instead of 1 on the top handle. I have the smallrig fs5 top/cheese plate because I prefer to use a quick release nato rail handle.  

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On 3/20/2020 at 12:21 AM, Trek of Joy said:

Haven't searched too hard for bargain prices, but don't you still need a SDI recorder to capture raw? Once you get there, you're in the neighborhood (or do you spell it neighhbourhood?) of a E2-S6 with the E-ND mount. Just saying there are others in the same price bracket.


Yes, but you could get say a secondhand original Atomos Shogun for say a little more than US$500ish soon?

Bet the recession is going to make a FS700 hit US$500ish within a year, so all up for around a grand ish for that combo? Far cheaper than a Z Cam E2-S6!

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I totally forgot that Slog 3 exists due to the fact I'm used to running 8 bit cameras. But I've been testing it the last few days and am super impressed with how easily it grades.

I made an Slog 3 LC 709 conversion lut for grading. I expose my Slog 3 on the Sony FS5 at 1.5 stops over. With Bright at 77 IRE - You can use a conjunction of AE shift and the variable ND filter set to auto to make exposing really easy. 

Only thing bad about Slog 3 is that its a bitch when trying to monitor. Its like comparing Slog 2 vs Cine 4. It's VERY flat which makes it hard to check focus. 

 

Conversion Lut - https://www.dropbox.com/s/6yrozb1z5olhez9/Slog3 LC 709 Correction.cube?dl=0 

Just use a creative lut after you apply this one and with some minor exposure tweaking you should be good. (You will probably need to lower the Luts intensity) 

ungradedbirdhouse_3.1.1.jpg

LC709 birdhouse_3.1.2.jpg

gradedbirdhouse_3.1.3.jpg

lakotaorange_3.1.1.jpg

lakotaorange2_3.1.2.jpg

Lakotaorange3_3.1.3.jpg

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