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Panasonic FF L-mount Cine camera coming

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36 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I too like the flip out screen, but cinema folks aren't relying on a flip out screen to begin with, they're using an external monitor. I also don't understand why people thought the body would be much different than the S1 or the S1R. 

Overall $4k for a camera that does full frame video with all those features is very reasonable for anyone that wants/needs those features. 

Well then why worry about low-light performance? After-all, "cinema" folks light their scenes don't they? But it this camera is priced for indie, solo, run n gun type shooters, all of a sudden such features become important.

31 minutes ago, RWR said:

(I can't imagine cinema maker that will buy this niche dream and than rigged it instead of UMP4.6.)

Which has a "selfie" flip out screen ;)

Actually it doesn't flip 180 degrees.

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Just now, DBounce said:

Well then why worry about low-light performance? After-all, "cinema" folks light their scenes don't they? But it this camera is priced for indie, solo, run n gun type shooters, all of a sudden such features become important.

Actually it doesn't flip 180 degrees.

Moreover, flip screen goes wonderful together with external monitor... So many times is very interesting move from down to up or vice versa, and both screen in combination of different angles provide exceptional possibility.

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18 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

I think I was dead on correct about the announcement today........great job I must say.

What's your take on the S1H ??????

 

Well I don't know enough about it yet to come to a conclusion. But I would have to trust Panasonic thinks the entry price is worth it. 6K does open up some interesting options. I will wait to say anything good or bad. It is out of my price range figuring having a L Mount. But it is getting up there other than AF with a Sony A9 price wise, and hopefully stats wise it can compete. I think one thing it proves, is people better get used to that size of Mirrorless cameras if the want 60p,10 bit or better. Panny had to have this camera in mind even when they thought of the S1.

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29 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

You weren't going to be happy short of it having PDAF and a flip out screen. That it leads the way in every other category is irrelevant to you, so I don't think you're their target customer. Best to wait for the A7Siii maybe and hope that it can do 4K60p without combusting? 

It's more to do with the fact that most of the competition is pretty dam good atm. So to really make some noise manufactures need to go above and beyond to win $$$ in an ever shrinking market. Those that don't will loose out. I don't think this camera does much to lead the majority of users to leave Sony, Canon, Nikon or Fuji to adopt this new and pricey system. 

13 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

And you left out the X24734 crop the EOS R has and no IBIS. Who on earth is defending Canon and it's left behind features?

Oh my goodness it has a crop in 4k? Who cares?... so does the GH5 and it is a great camera. So does my C200, and the Alexa Mini. Honestly, I would have been more excited to see this camera have a S35 sensor, PDAF and built in electronic ND... That's a camera I would have purchased immediately. No need to think on that configuration at all. But this one? MEH.

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3 hours ago, DBounce said:

And you seemed to have left out a few important feature the S1 lacks...

EOS R:

1. Higher resolution sensor. 

2. The most cinematic AF system to date. With no micro-hunting as witnessed in other system. 

3. Usable AF in low light conditions down to -6EV.

4. Seamless use of legacy glass. 

5. ND adapter.

6. Robust codec.

7. Massive lens collection with included adapter.

8. Great color science.

9. More manageable size/weight... which means for many it’s more likely to be carried.

10. And most importantly... IT’S A CANON!

OK, maybe that last one is more important to some people than others, but there it is.

You really are King of Trolls. Very easy to list all the good features without listing the bad isn't it?

1. Who cares.

2. Who cares.

3. Who cares.

4. Who cares.

5. Who cares.

6. Who cares.

7. Who cares.

8. As an EOS R owner and an S1 owner, I can say the colour science on the S1 is superb

9. Who cares

10. Who cares

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20 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

 It is out of my price range figuring having a L Mount. 

Actually that's exact problem... Approximately 8 of 10 of us commenting now this Panasonic cine dream camera - surely will not buy it, and we are some example of cine-interested group.. (And that one who buy it, is well aware that will sell it next year or earlier to get, say, new Fuji.) Joking or being fan aside, without discussion there is a nice (but not huge at any rate) progress, Panasonic is solid and workhorse king as it possible to be, but direction that miss massive practical users outside of technology discussion space is dubious for surviving.

We all now that Panasonic can easily make usage of RAW - but it seems to me that Panasonic team doesn't know what line to protect and how to further play cripple-game, balancing something that is impossible to balance today anymore. Kinefinity and Z and BM are too serious now for so easy (autistic) and jauntily-highselfestimating usage "dream" as marketing clickbait - at least for this highly profiled user stratus.

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If all you shoot is slow motion, then the S1H is definitely worth $2000 more than the S1. You don’t even need IBIS with slow motion. I think the bigger question is if it’s worth the $2500 more than an X-T3 and a Speedbooster?

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25 minutes ago, DBounce said:

It's more to do with the fact that most of the competition is pretty dam good atm. So to really make some noise manufactures need to go above and beyond to win $$$ in an ever shrinking market. Those that don't will loose out. I don't think this camera does much to lead the majority of users to leave Sony, Canon, Nikon or Fuji to adopt this new and pricey system. 

Panasonic clearly isn't targeting people that are shooting on a $2000 full frame hybrid and trying to get them to switch. 

There's literally nothing on the market that can do what the S1H does in its price range. To get something that can you're heading into RED, Arri, Canon C700, or Sony Venice territory. I am not sure what part of any of that you don't understand. 

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9 minutes ago, mercer said:

If all you shoot is slow motion, then the S1H is definitely worth $2000 more than the S1. You don’t even need IBIS with slow motion. I think the bigger question is if it’s worth the $2500 more than an X-T3 and a Speedbooster?

That's what I pointed earlier (with all love and owe for Panasonic): it (or they) totally change spirit or vision, as being more and more fascinated with Leica. It allows to BM and Fuji (Fuji even as cine newcomer) take youth talented population with shallower pocket, climbing to the aged collectors, without refreshing and expanding base of real cine-(young and newcoming) dreamers...

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9 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

There's literally nothing on the market that can do what the S1H does in its price range. 

But what really is on the field weight and importance of that that S1H so distinctively do? 4k 60p 10bit internal - when it is at any case usage of external monitor the must for serious filming. It looks to me as bodybuilder's case - nice to see once (or more often himself in mirror), but to expensive to keep and feed.

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3 minutes ago, mercer said:

What I don’t understand is why the major manufacturers are allowing BlackMagic to be the only kid in town to offer internal ProRes/Raw in a DSLR/M form factor and why 4K 60p in 10 bit is considered a dream camera when it can be had for $1300?.

Because it's full frame?

I'm in the camp that thinks full frame is overrated. I'm happy with my micro four thirds loser sensor (™Camera Conspiracies)! 

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2 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Panasonic clearly isn't targeting people that are shooting on a $2000 full frame hybrid and trying to get them to switch. 

There's literally nothing on the market that can do what the S1H does in its price range. To get something that can you're heading into RED, Canon C700, or Sony Venice territory. I am not sure what part of any of that you don't understand. 

But isn’t this the head scratcher? Nobody is doing it because there’s likely not a market for it. The people who are using a Red or Venice probably don’t want the form factor of the S1H and how many hybrid shooters really need or want 6K?

Dont get me wrong, as a no budget shooter that loves the practicalities the DSLR Revolution offered to indie filmmakers, I think the S1H is a great idea... if it had IBIS and was $3000 or less... preferably closer to $2500. But as it stands, I just don’t see the point of it? Being FF, it’s not a great B-Cam to a Varicam or EVA1. For the price, you may as well spend the little extra and get an EVA1. I don’t know... I’m sure it will have a nice image and I can see its appeal to a niche user... but... ehh... I’d rather have a P4K or an X-T3 and a Speedbooster. 

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2 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Because it's full frame?

I'm in the camp that thinks full frame is overrated. I'm happy with my micro four thirds loser sensor (™Camera Conspiracies)! 

Meh... necessity (or advantage) of full frame for film making... :)

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1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

What part of $2500 for a full frame 10bit V-LOG shooting camera isn't a bargain? The $2000 or the $500? Oh and it is also a kick ass stills camera with best EVF on the market and Super 35mm 4K 60p like an X-T3, but still isn't a bargain?

Exactly. 

Especially if you were lucky enough to be an earlyI adopter. Bought my S1 by April 4th, so got free battery grip, free battery, free 3-year extended warranty, and now free upgrade for $2500.

Bargain of the year! 

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1 minute ago, mercer said:

But isn’t this the head scratcher? Nobody is doing it because there’s likely not a market for it. The people who are using a Red or Venice probably don’t want the form factor of the S1H and how many hybrid shooters really need or want 6K?

Dont get me wrong, as a no budget shooter that loves the practicalities the DSLR Revolution offered to indie filmmakers, I think the S1H is a great idea... if it had IBIS and was $3000 or less... preferably closer to $2500. But as it stands, I just don’t see the point of it? Being FF, it’s not a great B-Cam to a Varicam or EVA1. For the price, you may as well spend the little extra and get an EVA1. I don’t know... I’m sure it will have a nice image and I can see its appeal to a niche user... but... ehh... I’d rather have a P4K or an X-T3 and a Speedbooster. 

Sony and Canon are doing it but with S35 sensors and more expensive.

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24 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Panasonic clearly isn't targeting people that are shooting on a $2000 full frame hybrid and trying to get them to switch. 

Then who are they targeting? I'll tell you what, they had better start targeting a real market because if they don't their L-Mount is destined to fail. 

Once we get into the $4k mark, I start to consider dedicated cinema cameras... not so much hybrids. For that money I want build in XLRs, NDs etc... For hybrids unless they are bringing something very unique... like the GFX 100 or purpose build sports cameras such as the 1DXMk2, I prefer a smaller more manageable size/weight. I really think Panasonic blew it on this one. I think many will praise it... but those praise will not translate into actual sales. 

It's not that I'm opposed to new cameras. I will probably pickup the GFX 100 when it comes out. I just need to see some more footage. Granted, I want it mainly for stills. In the end, I think this new Panasonic is an answer to a question that no one was asking.

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8 minutes ago, anonim said:

That's what I pointed earlier (with all love and owe for Panasonic): it (or they) totally change spirit or vision, as being more and more fascinated with Leica. It allows to BM and Fuji (Fuji even as cine newcomer) take youth talented population with shallower pocket, climbing to the aged collectors, without refreshing and expanding base of real cine-(young and newcoming) dreamers...

I agree and I think Panasonic jumped the shark when they charged $2000 for the GH5 and $2500 for the GH5s. The GH5 should have been $1500 and $2000 for the GH5s. If I could buy a new GH5, over 2 years after its release for $1000, I’d have one by now.

As far as their fascination with Leica... I assume they have a mutual business arrangement in place regarding FF cameras... that was Leica’s business and if they wanted to enter, they needed to use the L Mount... but just an assumption.

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