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Snowbro

When Will Camera Companies Make HDR Video Like This?

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3 hours ago, Snowbro said:

Guy walking clumsily, handheld, with an iphone & its HDR video, where it combines two frames with different exposures. Camera companies are severely lacking on the software side of things. They could give use crazy DR in video. 

 

respectfully i  have to disagree. while it is a nice image  it looks too real, looks more like its been modeled in  3d software and  rendered with a raytracer  my eyes don't see in hdr, a whole movie like that would be sensory overload and i would probably require surgery for cataracts or something afterwards

while it may be useful in some instances it would be overdone, just like with all the slomo stuff  thats getting around at the moment...perhaps its just me... time will no doubt tell.

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When Panasonic or Fuji finally release the organic sensor that they have been promising for the last few years. That sensor is supposed to have per pixel gain adjustment meaning NDs are no longer needed and HDR is real hdr instead of simulated or calculated HDR like on a smartphone. 

But who knows if/ when that will be released?

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1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Seems like a lot of cameras should have the processing power to do this in 1080 at least. 

Because the cpu's in cameras pack the same power as a flagship smartphones made by companies with market caps of almost $1 Trillion US? 

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2 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Because the cpu's in cameras pack the same power as a flagship smartphones made by companies with market caps of almost $1 Trillion US? 

My reasoning is that 4k is twice the resolution of 1080p. So if the camera can process 4k it should be able to record two 1080 frames at the same time. Maybe have a software plugin that processes them in post if the camera can't do it. I think the GoPro does this with some of its stabilization. I am not a technician just guessing. 
 

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2 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

My reasoning is that 4k is twice the resolution of 1080p. So if the camera can process 4k it should be able to record two 1080 frames at the same time. Maybe have a software plugin that processes them in post if the camera can't do it. I think the GoPro does this with some of its stabilization. I am not a technician just guessing. 
 

Firstly, 4k is four times the resolution as 1080p. Secondly, unless cropping in you are downsampling... which takes processing power. This idea of recording two frames doesn't work so well with moving images. It's high time we had sensors with pixel by pixel gain adjustment.

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6 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Firstly, 4k is four times the resolution as 1080p. Secondly, unless cropping in you are downsampling... which takes processing power. This idea of recording two frames doesn't work so well with moving images. It's high time we had sensors with pixel by pixel gain adjustment.

Twice the line resolution but yeah. If the two frames are recorded exactly at the same time seems like it would work. Seems to be a limitation with a lot of attempts like the Z-cam, not sure what tech is limiting the precision. 

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12 hours ago, DBounce said:

When Panasonic or Fuji finally release the organic sensor that they have been promising for the last few years. That sensor is supposed to have per pixel gain adjustment meaning NDs are no longer needed and HDR is real hdr instead of simulated or calculated HDR like on a smartphone. 

But who knows if/ when that will be released?

Why would NDs not be needed if we had per-pixel gain?

Currently the lowest ISO combined with desirable aperture and SS during the day results in many more stops of light than the sensor can handle, so unless the per-pixel gain adjustment was able to have ISOs much much lower than 100 then you'd still need NDs.

I get that it would give us increased DR, but only by taking dark pixels and brightening them.

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A few Canon models can do HDR video in 1080p, but if you move the camera the rolling shutter will make the two separate exposures visible.

As technology improves, they can probably do it in 4k with less artifacts.

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20 hours ago, DBounce said:

Interesting.  So we've essentially got two sensor technologies here.

The Panasonic / Fujifilm one here that has an organic layer that acts as an ND, enables global shutter, and can make the well-capacity of each pixel far larger which will increase DR.  This sensor still has a sequential readout like traditional sensors.  Panasonic has been able to build one, and says that 8K60 is possible.

Then there's the Sony one which has one ADC per pixel, enabling different ISO per pixel to increase DR, and providing a global shutter as the ADC is done in parallel.  This doesn't have a built-in ND capability so in very bright situations an ND would still be required.  This design adds lots of complexity and Sony has only managed to build a very low resolution one so far.

Is that right?

I wonder what the DR of the Panasonic one would be.  They claim a light-well capacity of 10X previous designs, so keeping the same overall noise levels equal that should mean an additional ~3 stops of DR.  That method seems to be the better one, at least in the short-term as the extra DR of the Sony isn't worth the lack of ND, plus the fact that the Sony sensor still isn't 1080p yet 😆😆😆

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30 minutes ago, DBounce said:

@kye the only problem I see is that Panasonic and Fuji have been working on this technology for several years and still nothing you could buy.

Isn't that the case with all new technologies though?  Things take a very long time to get from the R&D department to the Engineering department to the Product Design department to the Manufacturing department.

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IMG_0024.thumb.JPG.cf3dbc3d1857e60040b2767599b37127.JPG

Well as far as I can tell the iPhone XS, which I have, actually does frame combining where as the Galaxy S10 Only has a new screen that shows HDR10, which the iPhone X that I traded in already had that screen. The only downfall I have seen is the lens I guess is causing it has a nasty flare at times. The output, although over sharpened OOC, is pretty crazy impressive. And with the new Filmic Pro V2 app it is beyond amazing for a phone. And figuring you can buy an Anamorphic lens for a Smartphone for 150 bucks or less, which I have, is even more crazy.

I have shown this shot before but this was just a jump out of the car shoot and jump back in shot. I think pretty amazing detail for a phone. It was shot in HDR. I will look for the video I shot in frame combining.

This shot of the cabin, courthouse is a screen grab from the video I took in HDR video. Having trouble uploading the whole video. There is a problem with the frame rate being Jerky?? The DR and sharpness you can get in this mode is pretty unbelievable I think. If you look at the left at the detail in the road signs it is crazy sharp. And this is just in the in camera app, not using Filmic Pro.

vlcsnap-2019-02-21-10h40m30s748.png

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7 hours ago, Snowbro said:

What do you guys think will yield the best result? Iphone XS HDR frame combining or Galaxy S10 HDR10? 

That question can only be answered after the HDR10+ on the S10 series is put to the test, by reviewers (the final firmware should he available after the launch, if not right now). 

I am also curious to know the bitrate on the S10 and whether Apps like Cinema4k and Filmic Pro have access to the full API on the Samsung.

 

17 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

where as the Galaxy S10 Only has a new screen that shows HDR10

Actually the camera record in/for HDR10+ too. I clearly remember seeing it in the launch video.

 

From Samsung's Own Official Site:

https://news.samsung.com/global/samsung-raises-the-bar-with-galaxy-s10-more-screen-cameras-and-choices 

"Both front and rear cameras can shoot in up to UHD quality, and in an industry first, the rear camera gives you the flexibility to record in HDR10+6."

The Sony Xperia XZ3 was apparently the first smartphone to record 10-bit HDR video. I am guessing it was 4-2-0 and very low bitrate. 

 

 

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Best I have seen is it May Have it. Well there is Zero videos out, so the quality of it is still to be seen. I am sure it will be good, but it is going to have to be unbelievable to beat the new iPhones.

Although I am not too sure the iPhones shoot in 10bit??

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