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jpfilmz

C200 vs C100 MKII

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I don't think the grade or how the footage is shot represent either camera well, but the technical aspects in terms of sharpness seem about right, although I think those clips are from .mp4 files, which are not as sharp as raw.

I find this video more representative, though:

But I don't like the +5 sharpening here, either. Anything above 0 looks "digital" to me. 

Regardless, both cameras are plenty sharp. Super sharp 1080p (sharper than the Alexa's 1080p) vs average 4k. But the difference between the two isn't great. The C100 oversamples in a way that achieves nearly 100 mtf. Bayer's mtf as sampled in the C200 drops to zero at around 70% linear resolution I believe. So at best the C200 has "twice" as much resolution in UHD as the the C100 has at 1080p, not four times as you'd expect by counting pixels. If the C200 had an 8k sensor, that would be another story.

There are other differences, however: I prefer the C100's color and its noise pattern, and significantly. But the C200 has much less skew and much better dynamic range.

There are major workflow and ergonomic differences.

And if your client is demanding 4k footage acquired in 4k, well, only one of the two delivers on that.

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I have expressed multiple times here that C200 is in reality a glorified, and overpriced, C100. I have used the 2 cameras extensively, and the C200 is half a step ahead C100, while we wished for it to be 2.

If you do not care much about 4K and raw, then the C100mkII is one of the friendliest and straight forward cameras in the industry.

If you want/need broadcast codecs and "advanced"(=which are the norn for most manufacturers) features then even the JVC LS300 delivers, for a 3000$ price tag and the ability to shoot brodcast quality 4K/60p (with an Atomos), and you can get FS5ii raw/Ursa mini Pro for cheap, and EVA for less cheap!

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Truly a testament of how well the C100 has aged and its relevance today. It is still my current A-cam for most pro shoots not requiring 4K/Raw. Especially if you record externally to 10-bit 4:2:2 in order to squeeze all the juice out of it.

But it doesn't do that well outside base ISO. The DPAF is basic. No HFR. No Raw/4K60p.

I will be upgrading to the C200 ASAP.. but yeah its a little overpriced, like most Canon gear!

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6 hours ago, Django said:

Truly a testament of how well the C100 has aged and its relevance today. It is still my current A-cam for most pro shoots not requiring 4K/Raw. Especially if you record externally to 10-bit 4:2:2 in order to squeeze all the juice out of it.

But it doesn't do that well outside base ISO. The DPAF is basic. No HFR. No Raw/4K60p.

I will be upgrading to the C200 ASAP.. but yeah its a little overpriced, like most Canon gear!

I thought it was a pretty decent high iso perfomer? Or do you mean dynamic range

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On 1/14/2019 at 12:10 AM, Django said:

Truly a testament of how well the C100 has aged and its relevance today. It is still my current A-cam for most pro shoots not requiring 4K/Raw. Especially if you record externally to 10-bit 4:2:2 in order to squeeze all the juice out of it.

But it doesn't do that well outside base ISO. The DPAF is basic. No HFR. No Raw/4K60p.

I will be upgrading to the C200 ASAP.. but yeah its a little overpriced, like most Canon gear!

The C100 does not output 10bit 

Get a Sony PMW-F3 for that 😉

 

On 1/14/2019 at 1:32 PM, Mako Sports said:

I remember before the Sony A7s dropped the og C100 was the low light king.

You mean the Sony PMW-F3 was....

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@IronFilm This guy seems to believe the C100 outputs more than 8-bit: Canon C100 + Atomos Ninja2 10-bit Workflow

 

3 hours ago, Xavier Plágaro Mussard said:

In the first video is incredible how different skin colors are.

Correct. Color science was tweaked in C200 (probably to closer match Alexa)

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

The C100 does not output 10bit 

Get a Sony PMW-F3 for that 😉

 

You mean the Sony PMW-F3 was....

iirc the f3 was still way to expensive for most of us to own at the time though.

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I had a C200 on hand today and the light was nice so I attempted to shoot a dynamic range stress test in raw light.

The camera held highlights well imo, but not as well as an Alexa by any means. Noticeably better than a C300 or dSLR though. Maybe on par with a newer mirrorless camera, or even slightly better.

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22 hours ago, Django said:

@IronFilm This guy seems to believe the C100 outputs more than 8-bit: Canon C100 + Atomos Ninja2 10-bit Workflow

 

It is a common misconception that the C100 outputs 10bit, it doesn't.
(and the guy has errors in his article)

 

20 hours ago, Mako Sports said:

iirc the f3 was still way to expensive for most of us to own at the time though.

The F3 has for years now been extremely affordable! :-)

 

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On 1/13/2019 at 2:34 AM, Kisaha said:

I have expressed multiple times here that C200 is in reality a glorified, and overpriced, C100. I have used the 2 cameras extensively, and the C200 is half a step ahead C100, while we wished for it to be 2.

If you do not care much about 4K and raw, then the C100mkII is one of the friendliest and straight forward cameras in the industry.

If you want/need broadcast codecs and "advanced"(=which are the norn for most manufacturers) features then even the JVC LS300 delivers, for a 3000$ price tag and the ability to shoot brodcast quality 4K/60p (with an Atomos), and you can get FS5ii raw/Ursa mini Pro for cheap, and EVA for less cheap!

I agree.  I think the C200 is grossly overpriced.  Im don't see $4000 of image improvement between the 2 cameras.  The C200 should be priced around $3499 and the C100MK down to $1499.  Im curious now how the 10bit 4k image from the EOS R compares with the C200 image in raw.

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1 hour ago, jpfilmz said:

I agree.  I think the C200 is grossly overpriced.  Im don't see $4000 of image improvement between the 2 cameras.  The C200 should be priced around $3499 and the C100MK down to $1499.  Im curious now how the 10bit 4k image from the EOS R compares with the C200 image in raw.

Dynamic range should be drastic higher no? the rawlite codec should be a lot better as well. Have not shot C200 myself though.

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The C200 is almost two years old and I suspect we are going to see a C300 update at this NAB and possibly the interchangeable lens XC series camera that has been rumored to be in development for the past year. With those cameras entering the market, I would expect a price drop for the C200... I would assume $5999 for the C200 and $3999 for the C200B and I may very well snatch up a C200B at that price. Now if Canon is smart and offers RawLite (even 2K up to 60p) on this XC camera, I may go that route instead depending on specs and price. It could be a great camera to introduce IBIS as well.

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1 hour ago, mercer said:

The C200 is almost two years old and I suspect we are going to see a C300 update at this NAB and possibly the interchangeable lens XC series camera that has been rumored to be in development for the past year. With those cameras entering the market, I would expect a price drop for the C200... I would assume $5999 for the C200 and $3999 for the C200B and I may very well snatch up a C200B at that price. Now if Canon is smart and offers RawLite (even 2K up to 60p) on this XC camera, I may go that route instead depending on specs and price. It could be a great camera to introduce IBIS as well.

Do you have any recent rumors about that XC camera? For me, it has the best ergonomic design for a small video camera. Wish BM had gone that route for the P4K. Could be nice with the cheap EF-M lenses, which I am reading they are hit or miss, QC-wise..

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2 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Do you have any recent rumors about that XC camera? For me, it has the best ergonomic design for a small video camera. Wish BM had gone that route for the P4K. Could be nice with the cheap EF-M lenses, which I am reading they are hit or miss, QC-wise..

The last I saw on Canon rumors was about a month or two ago and they hinted at a March announcement. The original rumors stated they were going to use the ef-m mount but now he heard that they may use the rf... I’d rather have an ef mount to be honest. Sorry I don’t have the time to find the last rumor right now. 

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