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Andrew Reid

Canon EOS R first impressions - INSANE split personality camera

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18 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Heck the 1080p on the M50 is using DPAF and is as sharp as a Canon C100. And has a Flippy screen. I don't see why a person would pay the money for a EOS-R to be honest.

 

 

15 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

It's a full frame stills camera. The m50 is not. Easy to forget on a video forum. But stills cameras are stills cameras and it will always need to be taken into consideration when asking "why".

Correct.

EOS R is also a FF video camera, which neither M50 or C100 are.

EOS R internal ALL-I codecs are also superior to both. 

C-Log which isn't available on M50. 10-bit 4:2:2 external, which isn't even possible on C100.

4K which isn't available on C100 (and with less crop/RS then on M50). DPAF in 4K.

Etc etc..

EOS R is closer to a mini C200 / 5D4 hybrid. 

I'm actually considering using EOS R as the A-cam to an upcoming project after doing test shots alongside the C100.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
6 hours ago, Django said:

 

Correct.

EOS R is also a FF video camera, which neither M50 or C100 are.

EOS R internal ALL-I codecs are also superior to both. 

C-Log which isn't available on M50. 10-bit 4:2:2 external, which isn't even possible on C100.

4K which isn't available on C100 (and with less crop/RS then on M50). DPAF in 4K.

Etc etc..

EOS R is closer to a mini C200 / 5D4 hybrid. 

I'm actually considering using EOS R as the A-cam to an upcoming project after doing test shots alongside the C100.

I am sure it can work as a A cam. Like I have ranted on here just about any camera in this day and age can get the job done. The EOS-R has great CS and with the DPAF ought to be able to be capable of doing the vast majority of what you need.

And I am probably not going to buy a M50. It is no gain over my A7s other than color science. And I just happen to like it's CS anyways. But I think the M50 has a sharper 1080p than the EOS-R. But for a CIne look it might be a tad too sharp.

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Kai uploaded his review of the EOS R 

He mentioned one thing that I never read anywhere else before: When he puts on a EFS lens, the camera doesn't allow recording in 60fps 1080p anymore. 

Can anyone confirm if that is really the case, or if Kai just did something wrong with the settings? If it can't do 60fps in 1080 with a EF-S lens, I will cancel my pre-order today

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12 minutes ago, dvcrn said:

Kai uploaded his review of the EOS R 

He mentioned one thing that I never read anywhere else before: When he puts on a EFS lens, the camera doesn't allow recording in 60fps 1080p anymore. 

Can anyone confirm if that is really the case, or if Kai just did something wrong with the settings? If it can't do 60fps in 1080 with a EF-S lens, I will cancel my pre-order today

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/61781252

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It's good news and bad news. Yup. Greys out 1080/60p/50p in EF-S mode and Movie Cropping mode. 1.6x crop mode is only available for stills. 4K and 1080p crop is 1.8x. In 1080p crop mode it appears to use the 4K sensor output, downsampling to 1080p, along with 1.8x crop when you attach an EF-S lens.

That's the bad news.

The good news is I think the image looks a bit better in the EF-S mode...1.8x crop 1080p mode seems sharper.

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Now this is ridiculous. With all the adapter announcements and automatic EF-S crop mode on top of C-Log, I assumed they indirectly suggested to use EF-S lenses for video, but this is nuts. I really wanted this camera and had no problems with using EF-S glass only for the time being since I have a bunch of EF-S lenses and shoot only in 1080p currently, but now I can't even "upgrade" from a lower end M/Rebel camera without loosing the ability to record 60fps? In 2018??

Hrrmm I really don't get what Canon is doing here. 

I'm now looking into just getting a M50 instead 

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An EF-S lens prevents 60fps?!?!

Wow, just wow! As man, even though I thought I knew Canon, they still come up with new ways to surprise me in how they can cripple their cameras so as to keep on disappointing their (dwindling... hopefully? Otherwise they're suckers for abuse!) Canon fanboys.

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12 hours ago, mercer said:

I think he’s saying that you can use ef-s lenses in 4K crop mode of 1.8x where you can also shoot 1080p... so you won’t get 60p at 1.6x but you will get it at 1.8x... or at least that’s how I read it. 

No you do not get 1.8x in 60p either.

You will have to shoot full frame for 60p, and use the digital IS to crop-in to 1.2x and approx. 1.4x.

That latter mode may get your Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 into service in 60p but beware the softness and artefacts from DIS.

EF-S lens users are completely out of luck for 60p. As soon as one is detected, it locks the camera to 1.8x crop mode, 30p max. You cannot disable the 1.8x crop mode with one attached.

IN SUMMARY:

  • Full frame lens: FF 1080/60/50p and 1.6x crop stills. 1.8x crop 4K and 1080p up to 30p
  • EF APS-C lens (Sigma): As above
  • EF-S lens (Canon): 1.8x crop 1080/30p max and 4K/24/25/30p 1.8x crop

In no mode can you actually record 1.6x crop video. The 1.6x crop mode is ONLY for 12MP stills. There is also a "Movie cropping mode" in the menus, but that is 1.8x as well.

It is either:

  1. Full frame 1080p 60p / 1.2x crop DIS / 1.4x crop DIS+
  2. 4K 1.8x crop 30p max
  3. 1080p 1.8x crop 30p max

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Jesus, it seems like Canon had to work harder for that configuration. But that clears it up, thanks. It definitely pays to have FF lenses if you intend on shooting 1080p up to 60p then. I wonder what will happen when dummy adapters start circulating. I assume if there is no contact made, it locks you out of EF-S mode. For instance, an older Sigma 30mm 1.4 aps-c lens for Nikon on a dummy adapter.

But that makes me wonder... is the shoot without lens function in the menus?

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29 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

EF-S lens users are completely out of luck for 60p. As soon as one is detected, it locks the camera to 1.8x crop mode, 30p max. You cannot disable the 1.8x crop mode with one attached.

IN SUMMARY:

  • Full frame lens: FF 1080/60/50p and 1.6x crop stills. 1.8x crop 4K and 1080p up to 30p
  • EF APS-C lens (Sigma): As above
  • EF-S lens (Canon): 1.8x crop 1080/30p max and 4K/24/25/30p 1.8x crop

This is potentially something that 3rd party adapter manufacturers could address.

There are a fair number of people who have done projects for various reasons where they have used a micro controller to talk directly to Canon lenses or to use them as interpreters/filters between the body and the lens.

There are two ways to do it, the first of which is to attach directly to the pins inside the lens (which means you'd have to do it for every lens) but the neater way (at least for experimental purposes) has been to use a cheap £10 AF macro adapter and wire to that so it sits between the body and the lens.

The basic premise is that the micro controller can send its own messages to the lens, pass the ones on to and from the body as is or modify them to what they need to do.

1893730689_ScreenShot2018-10-22at18_09_21.png.99206f5dd1bbef473e5fe2e968c9884e.png

The one that would be interesting for this scenario of course is when the camera makes the request for the lens info, the reply from the controller could be "An EF-S lens you say? No not me guvnor, I'm a full frame one I am. Known for it in fact" and pass it the details of an EF lens or third party APS-C lens of the same spec.

Obviously the current snag in using the macro adapter is that it is for experimental purposes (or for building macro focus stacking apps) as it obviously makes the lens a macro one.

However, for the EOS-R, when 3rd parties come up with their own adapter (which won't be long) then they could build this in quite easily and cheaply.

In the meantime, it would be an interesting experiment with the macro adapter as is just to see if the EOS-R could be persuaded it didn't have an EF-S lens attached.

The other experiment, which is a bit left field, is to try the equivalent of an old fashioned disc swap hack. If you put the camera in record with an EF lens at one of the forbidden formats, what happens when you remove the lens with it still running? If it doesn't stop the recording, what does it then do if you attach an EF-S lens? Possibly one with the contacts taped over ;) 

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So if you shoot HFR, you've got to use a FF lens. For 4k, you've got to use EF-S lenses for native FOV. And if you want that ND adapter, you've got to use adapted lenses.

It's almost as if Canon wants you to buy 3 sets of lenses! What's next, 10 bit only when using FD lenses?

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LOL    I actually do have EF, EFS and FD Canon lenses and the funny thing is they all work great (for my uses)-

 

 

On a Sony!

Even the cheap and cheerful Canon APSC 18-55 IS ii kit lens works ok in both APSC and even FF mode from around 24mm and up.

WHY Canon does this?      Any one guess?

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16 hours ago, dvcrn said:

Now this is ridiculous. With all the adapter announcements and automatic EF-S crop mode on top of C-Log, I assumed they indirectly suggested to use EF-S lenses for video, but this is nuts. I really wanted this camera and had no problems with using EF-S glass only for the time being since I have a bunch of EF-S lenses and shoot only in 1080p currently, but now I can't even "upgrade" from a lower end M/Rebel camera without loosing the ability to record 60fps? In 2018??

Hrrmm I really don't get what Canon is doing here. 

I'm now looking into just getting a M50 instead 

With M50 you can have all mode (4k30P, 1080p60 and 720p120) on APS-C and FF with speedbooster. 😉

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