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Panasonic announcing a full frame camera on Sept. 25???

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12 minutes ago, mercer said:

How is that their message? DSLRs won’t be increasingly obsolete over the next 5 years.

Heck they might not even make them at all 5 years from now! How many Sony Alpha a99 II's you think they sell a year?

Heck five years from now Smartphones may be better than Mirrorless FF's.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

So you guys think Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc,... will stop making DSLRs within 5 years? Lol. 

I don’t know the exact numbers but I would guess that APS-C DSLRs make up over 50% of all interchangeable lens camera sales.

But yeah, they’re going to be relics delegated to museum showcases in 5 years or less.

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1 minute ago, mercer said:

So you guys think Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc,... will stop making DSLRs within 5 years? Lol. 

I don’t know the exact numbers but I would guess that APS-C DSLRs make up over 50% of all interchangeable lens camera sales.

But yeah, they’re going to be relics delegated to museum showcases in 5 years or less.

It wasnt exactly what I meant. What I meant was this. I suspect that most DSLR owners will switch over to mirrorless in the next 10 years. So there must come a point - well before you switch - that you stop investing in your DSLR system. And even if you dont plan to switch, many people will be reluctant to invest in the DSLR system because they dont believe the equipment will hold its value in the resale market.

As I said investing US$10,000 in the new 400 2.8 or 600 4 would seem a big ask for a system that people are gradually moving away from.

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36 minutes ago, mercer said:

So you guys think Canon, Nikon, Pentax, etc,... will stop making DSLRs within 5 years? Lol. 

I don’t know the exact numbers but I would guess that APS-C DSLRs make up over 50% of all interchangeable lens camera sales.

But yeah, they’re going to be relics delegated to museum showcases in 5 years or less.

I don't think Pentax will even be in business 5 years from now, maybe a few more will be belly up. Cameras are not really a long term sustainable business anymore I think. Cine cameras maybe, but APSC, cheap Mirrorless, I sort of doubt it down the road.

All this crazy privacy stuff you may not be able to even go out in public with a fancy looking camera. Just likes Drones you will Have to have a license, a real reason to use it.

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10 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

How many people you really think are going to buy a GH5 over a FF EOS R, Z6, A7 mk III?? About 22 people on here, that's all there will be. There is probably less than 5% of people actually take video even remotely serious. The vast majority of people could give a Rats Ass about super video features, or any video features at all.. Heck of a lot of people wish they sold cameras with NO video at all in them.

I think you are seriously misinformed about the position of video in media creation. Give it five years and video production will outweigh stills.

That is usually the stance of shooters who still long for the smell of developing fluid and dodge and burn techniques.

The future is now, and it's changing everything. No matter what you do, you can't stop it. You either adapt or become irrelevant.

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41 minutes ago, Lux Shots said:

I think you are seriously misinformed about the position of video in media creation. Give it five years and video production will outweigh stills.

That is usually the stance of shooters who still long for the smell of developing fluid and dodge and burn techniques.

The future is now, and it's changing everything. No matter what you do, you can't stop it. You either adapt or become irrelevant.

You really think people in Africa, Sri Lanka, Mongolia etc. are going to get into video big time with real cameras?? Adapt to what? Nearly everyone in the world owns a Smartphone and they mostly, nearly all take photos, Selfies. There is not a huge desire for video. For one thing that takes space on your camera, your computer,  your backup hard drives. That takes money. Most people around the world don't have money. Other than people on sites like this, or others like it, most people don't know crap about video, or care to use it. It is too hard to do, too time consuming. Hell when I had my businesses I never had time to do this, or even go to these sites.

Video is a Luxury. Most of the world cant afford a Luxury, or the time to do it.. Sure it is not a passing fad, but it is hardly a thing most people really put at any high priority in their lives.

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2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Other than people on sites like this, or others like it, most people don't know crap about video, or care to use it. It is too hard to do, too time consuming. Hell when I had my businesses I never had time to do this, or even go to these sites. Video is a Luxury. Most of the world cant afford a Luxury, or the time to do it..

Even people in developed countries using iPhone X don't shoot video as much as they shoot still. Because for the viewer, video takes much more time to get the content.

 

4 minutes ago, jonpais said:

More than 75% of youngsters would consider a career in online videos according to some surveys.

"online videos".. vlogger generation, of course.. and high end smartphone, or a cheap m4/3 hybrid camera will be good enough for that. The point is FF still market is already niche.. a video centric approach for that market is niche in the niche. How it gonna help Panasonic? 

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Micro four thirds is in its last throes. When manufacturers are selling FF for less than flagship crop sensor cameras, with 10-bit log thrown in, it’s game over!

For my work, which is exclusively people, FF has the weight, cost and AF advantage.

Both cameras cost $1,800.

Olympus 45mm f/1.2 Pro - $1,200.

Sony 85mm f/1.8 - $550.

GH5 pkg weight - 1135 gr.

Sony pkg weight - 1021 gr.

50093995-1EFB-41DA-90DB-97A55A24B3AC.jpeg

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3 hours ago, jonpais said:

Micro four thirds is in its last throes. When manufacturers are selling FF for less than flagship crop sensor cameras, with 10-bit log thrown in, it’s game over!

 

Yes, when... :) And all others will stay in past "now". 

I know it very well - it is so charmingly addictive to write now about selectively chosen "when" :) 

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6 hours ago, Dan Sherman said:


In my eyes the bodies aren't the problem, it's the glass. Take your typical higher end zoom kit common amoung those that shoot stills and video.

  • Panasonic 12-35mm f/2.8 II $1000
  • Panasonic  35-100mm f/2.8 II $1100

 

  • Sony FE 24-70mm f/2.8 GM $2200
  • Sony FE 70-200mm f/2.8 GM OSS $2600

 

FF. is over twice as much.  The sad thing is, I don't think this is something your average person looks into when choosing a system.   


 

Sadly, I have to disagree if targeting market is ambitious movie/video makers. Comparing, as equal, zooms for Panasonic and Sony as enough serious film or (in less extent) video tools, looks to me totally no valid... In m43 system, usage of now existing native zooms - in combination with respective differences between Panny and Olympus bodies - implied many compromises and creative limits for such purpose.

But - till the moment when there is still space for progress of codecs-approaching-raw/ibis/non-heating-struggle/body and ergonomic solidness/even color-science etc. - sensors smaller than FF have, it seems to me, their serious advantage, being always step further as having better chance to be more complete (for average buyers) poor-but-talented-man movie making tool. And m43 looks as "sweet spot" for such purpose.

How long we will wait for FF answer if, for example, Panasonic announce GHx firstly with external, than internal RAW recording, integrating it with even bettered IBIS - which is completely realistic as progress path? Or if something similar, instead of Panny, make BM or some Chinese company...

It is already notorious to call again as argument shake that made new BM pocket announcement - place in EOSHD where, as I see  many future-tellers of m43 death are not at all squeamish to visit and zealously comment... So, will it be different if, 2-3 years from now, BM or some other company announce similar product combine with IBIS and some micro-hd internal writing solution? Is it unrealistic? What comparatively could be, at the same moment, state of integration the same advantages in FF system cameras?

Let's repeat IMO very nice note of mr Dan Sherman - if I really have need for go further in film making and money making tool, I'd rather buy a  camcorder type of camera as complete solution, that are also will become smaller and cheaper, than FF system cameras... And  we yet have nowhere hear last word about such m43 camcorder type of product...

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7 hours ago, mercer said:

I don’t know the exact numbers but I would guess that APS-C DSLRs make up over 50% of all interchangeable lens camera sales.

90 per cent of these customers never buy a 2nd lens.

The kit lens could be glued to the camera and it would not make a difference.

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22 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Never on any forum, photo event or news outlet have I ever heard of this. Sounds like a fake rumor imo.

It would be inconceivable that someone would be able to fake something with the complexity of a high end Nikon DSLR. However it appears that there are indeed fake Nikons being sold but they are real Nikons just not the model that the purchaser thinks they are buying as they have been cosmetically altered to look like a more expensive model. https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/photography-video-capture/cameras/is-your-dslr-a-fake-nikon-issues-a-fresh-counterfeit-warning-1291244

 

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10 minutes ago, nigelbb said:

That's obviously a self-selecting bunch as on the M43 forum you are hardly likely to hear from the vast majority of Pro photographers who have stuck with FF because they prefer the look.

Hardly, it has more than its fair share of malcontents, always complaining about Dof, the price/size/weight of pro/fast glass and flagship boddies, not to mention outright trolls saying the system is dead with the release of every camera from competing systems.

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47 minutes ago, Dan Sherman said:

Hardly, it has more than its fair share of malcontents, always complaining about Dof, the price/size/weight of pro/fast glass and flagship boddies, not to mention outright trolls saying the system is dead with the release of every camera from competing systems.

Only a small number of Pro photographers have moved to M43. If might be prejudice. It might be that most prefer the FF look. It might be that size & weight doesn't matter much to most but it's undeniable that it's still only a minority.

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An exciting move from Panasonic. A full frame sensor with GH5 features and I'm sold. It won't replace my trusty GH5, I'll just add it to the stable when it makes financial sense for my work (or when I can't wait a second longer for full frame v-log!)

I'm most fascinated by what lens mount they go for, and what inherent advantages it will offer. I think this new and exciting full frame mirrorless war will be won and lost on the mount design and lens options. The Nikon Zed (=P) launch lenses are underwhelming and seem larger than their predecessors, with them citing a new level in optical performance, while the Canon R lenses are incredibly exciting and smaller than their predecessors -- perfect! I hope Panasonic don't got SL... those Leicas are big and heavy. Fingers crossed they go proprietary and lean towards the size/features of the rumoured Canon Rs. If all the manufactures make accelerating fly-by-wire focus rings I'm going to shoot myself in the face...

I want Panasonic to knock this out of the park. I think Sony will fear them most out of this new marauding FF pack!!

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8 hours ago, jonpais said:

Micro four thirds is in its last throes. When manufacturers are selling FF for less than flagship crop sensor cameras, with 10-bit log thrown in, it’s game over!

For my work, which is exclusively people, FF has the weight, cost and AF advantage.

Both cameras cost $1,800.

Olympus 45mm f/1.2 Pro - $1,200.

Sony 85mm f/1.8 - $550.

GH5 pkg weight - 1135 gr.

Sony pkg weight - 1021 gr.

50093995-1EFB-41DA-90DB-97A55A24B3AC.jpeg

Your lens comparison seems rather flawed, you chose the top of the line m-43 lens (or maybe second), but the entry-level Sony.

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All this is based on such a slender rumour.........

I can't see how Panasonic would want to enter an already crowded and shrinking marketplace while having to bring a whole new range of lenses with it. If Panasonic do have a full frame sensor in development it's much more likley to be a high end cinema camera with 8k capability. The M43 system is not going to be dead anytime soon as despite some disadvantages  it produces stills and video of sufficient quality to satisfy most users in a package that's significantly smaller than larger format systems. 

 

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48 minutes ago, nigelbb said:

Only a small number of Pro photographers have moved to M43. If might be prejudice. It might be that most prefer the FF look. It might be that size & weight doesn't matter much to most but it's undeniable that it's still only a minority.

 

I'm going to go with option number one. my wife and I's wedding phographer who is a well respected and in great demand (destination specialist), is a Nikon shooter. However, you would be extremely hard pressed to be able to tell that she was actually using a ff camera in all but a few shots.

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