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Andrew Reid

Nikon Z6 features 4K N-LOG, 10bit HDMI output and 120fps 1080p

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1 hour ago, Skip77 said:

The Z Cam E2 and P4K have reset the cine filed to some extent and helped lower the budgets for gear and cut into C200 and FS7 rentals.


I bet the average rental house has not even heard of the brand Z Cam, they're not worried!

Ditto P4K, they're not stealing too many C200/FS7 rentals. 

 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
5 minutes ago, IronFilm said:


I bet the average rental house has not even heard of the brand Z Cam, they're not worried!

Ditto P4K, they're not stealing too many C200/FS7 rentals. 

 

True nobody for one thing is even going to rent something you can buy for 2000 bucks or less very often.. Just buy the damn thing. I am sure they will have them, but won't get rich stocking them.

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13 minutes ago, IronFilm said:


I bet the average rental house has not even heard of the brand Z Cam, they're not worried!

Ditto P4K, they're not stealing too many C200/FS7 rentals. 

 

My comment mentions on smaller jobs that the C200 or FS7 would be rented now have to deal with the BMP4K owners. You missed the point for some reason.

9 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

True nobody for one thing is even going to rent something you can buy for 2000 bucks or less very often.. Just buy the damn thing. I am sure they will have them, but won't get rich stocking them.

The problem is older guys used to camcorders and old school 1080p will never use the BMP4K or Z6 12 bit raw / Ninja on sets because in their minds unless it has audio aux out and built in meters then it's not a real camera. I had a DP suggest 1080p was ok and wanted to bring out a 10 year old camcorder, went with the C300 that had 20 hot pink pixels baked into the footage.

No Nikon Z6 can't do video. What's wrong with you guys?

 

 

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Are you a young kid? kidding? Time lapse is not a video to be argued to show anything. Another joke is your laughter about the GH5 which is much more professional than the Z6 in so many ways. 

Your are talking so much about the RAW, lets see when it comes out first. We are still waiting for the promised Eye focus firmware update (Hopefully next month).

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1 hour ago, Skip77 said:

My comment mentions on smaller jobs that the C200 or FS7 would be rented now have to deal with the BMP4K owners. You missed the point for some reason.


Ah I see what you mean, well they no more impacted the rentals of a FS7 / C200 than the GH5 / a7Smk2 / etc did beforehand. 

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1 hour ago, Skip77 said:

Why would anyone promote the Gh5 in 2019 over full frame mirrorless for video? Poor AF and poor sensor readout cripples the GH5 for serious work. What are you going to do on set when you need a panning shot or panning shot with the subject moving? Are you going to try and explain the stutter away to the client as "all cameras do this"?  


For reference, here are a few figures:

 

Quote

GH5 --------------- 15.0 ms (official, preproduction)
Z6 4k APS-C ------- 15.0 ms (slashcam.de)
FS7 --------------- 15 ms
BM 4.6K ----------- 15.2 ms (official) my measurement was 16.3 ms (16.3-15.9-16.8)
a6300 1080p24 ----- 15.2 ms (15.8-14.6)
Pentax k1 1080p24 - 15.2 ms (15.9-15.7-13.9)
GX85 1080p -------- 15.4 ms (13.8-16.7-15.7)
GH3 --------------- 15.5 ms (15.4-15.7-15.4)
a7R III 4k S35 ---- 16.0 ms (15.6-16.4)
XT3 4k 60fps ------ 16.0 ms (15.6-16.0-16.3)
C300 -------------- 16 ms
C200 (4k=1080p) --- 16.1 ms (4k: 15.5-16.2-16.9, 1080p: 15.5-16.0-16.6)
BM p4k 4k --------- 16.2 ms (official)


I think the GH5 performs just fine in context!
 

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Webrunner5 is basically trolling the thread right now. He doesn’t own the Z 6 neither does he have any genuine interest in owning one. It’s just a matter of making the thread turn according to his pipe and instead of having a constructive and positive dialogue it becomes a meaningless back and forth with someone who doesn’t even own the camera. 

Its jonpais all over again.

I don’t like Sony but I don’t continuously bait the Sony threads. Poor Canon users have had a lot of it lately and I feel for them. Can’t write anything positive without ten people showing up screaming “crop”. 

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5 hours ago, Skip77 said:

I had a DP suggest 1080p was ok and wanted to bring out a 10 year old camcorder, went with the C300 that had 20 hot pink pixels baked into the footage.


If a production only needs 1080 (and the camera isn't damaged) then a C300mk1 could be a perfectly reasonable and smart choice for the shoot. 

 

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2 hours ago, Castorp said:

I don’t like Sony but I don’t continuously bait the Sony threads. Poor Canon users have had a lot of it lately and I feel for them. Can’t write anything positive without ten people showing up screaming “crop”. 

 

Ha now you know how we feel! And this is mild compared to any Canon thread.. ;) 

CaNikon are the historical big dogs so they always have it tougher but people have to realise they are also newcomers to FF mirrorless.

Both have done pretty well IMO for first effort cameras. Nikon put in more effort than Canon on the hardware side but kinda dropped the ball on a few critical features.

Good news is that can be dealt with in firmware upgrades if users are vocal enough about it. Nikon doesn't really have a video department and videographers are a tiny percentage of their customers but hopefully, word will get back to them.  

I have a soft spot for Nikon myself, shot with them way longer than Canon. But lack of an upgrade path and slow adaptation to video kinda forced me out. 

I still think there is strong potential for Z series but Nikon has to be very careful not to screw up, they made some poor decisions in the past that cost them a lot.

Alongside Fuji they are in a unique position to innovate with no cine line to protect, but its also a double-edged sword as far as R&D and experience.

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6 hours ago, liork said:

Are you a young kid? kidding? Time lapse is not a video to be argued to show anything. Another joke is your laughter about the GH5 which is much more professional than the Z6 in so many ways. 

Your are talking so much about the RAW, lets see when it comes out first. We are still waiting for the promised Eye focus firmware update (Hopefully next month).

Are you serious? The GH5 is a specs camera and has color issues and sensor readout issues when panning. You can keep all the specs and feature that you bought with that micro 4/3 compressed footage all day long. I know what the Z6 can do with 8-bit full frame readout at 144Mbps right now. Do you own the Z6? No. Then why are you so opinionated about a camera you don't own or tried? 

If the GH5 is all that great then why are you even on here defending it? Show your GH5 footage then and shut everyone up. Even Panasonic jump to full frame and the S1 like the Z6 blows the GH5 out of the water for image quality. Good luck taking decent stills with he GH5 hybrid camera because we al know how those images will look.

The promised eye AF firmware update is not delayed or behind so not sure what your point is. 

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:


For reference, here are a few figures:

 


I think the GH5 performs just fine in context!
 

The Z6 is full frame brother so stay in FX and not DX mode.

 

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:


For reference, here are a few figures:

 


I think the GH5 performs just fine in context!
 

I'm not talking about rolling shutter but sensor readout and how the GH5 process that data or how poorly it does that. What's the deal with panning stutter on the GH5? Low light is also terrible on the GH5 so much so that Panasonic had to introduce the Gh5s. That says it all about the GH5.

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I am not trolling shit. If you are going to try and make a living with any of the newer Mirrorless cameras the Nikon Z6 would be on the bottom of the pile. It is the worse on all of them for features you need to get the job done. And I would argue it also has the worse CS. Sure the 4K crop on the EOS-R is the pits, but it has great AF, CS, and everything in camera you need tool wise. Someone always has to be last and the Nikon is it simple as that. There isn't a person on here but, you know who, is going to use the Z6 over the GH5 if you have an important, only one chance in hell to do it, video shoot. Will it get better, sure it will, but as of now it is not repeatable reliable. Is it a crappy camera, heck no, but it is still last.

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On 9/3/2018 at 11:15 AM, jonpais said:

@Danyyyel I wasn't just talking about resolution; and no, just any lens from the past twenty years is not good enough for 4K video. I've reviewed one or two lenses in my day, and they all have their individual character. And some are sharper than others.

 

The photo you linked to has  BAD Sony color foundation going on. Un-natural yellow base tone with magenta over the top. Sony has missed the base foundation that is needed and what we see naturally. And it's not just skin tones but all Sony color tends to be off. 

15 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I am not trolling shit. If you are going to try and make a living with any of the newer Mirrorless cameras the Nikon Z6 would be on the bottom of the pile. It is the worse on all of them for features you need to get the job done. And I would argue it also has the worse CS. Sure the 4K crop on the EOS-R is the pits, but it has great AF, CS, and everything in camera you need tool wise. Someone always has to be last and the Nikon is it simple as that. There isn't a person on here but, you know who, is going to use the Z6 over the GH5 if you have an important, only one chance in hell to do it, video shoot. Will it get better, sure it will, but as of now it is not repeatable reliable. Is it a crappy camera, heck no, but it is still last.

How many people have to remind you of the Atomos Ninja and the controls you gain back by using it with the Z6? That's why they spent the time to get it right with Atomos. 

18 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I am not trolling shit. If you are going to try and make a living with any of the newer Mirrorless cameras the Nikon Z6 would be on the bottom of the pile. It is the worse on all of them for features you need to get the job done. And I would argue it also has the worse CS. Sure the 4K crop on the EOS-R is the pits, but it has great AF, CS, and everything in camera you need tool wise. Someone always has to be last and the Nikon is it simple as that. There isn't a person on here but, you know who, is going to use the Z6 over the GH5 if you have an important, only one chance in hell to do it, video shoot. Will it get better, sure it will, but as of now it is not repeatable reliable. Is it a crappy camera, heck no, but it is still last.

I guess I already used the Z6 over the GH5 on a 3 day video production along side the C300. You keep claiming the GH5 is better then the Z6 or real professional would pick the GH5 over the Z6 but I bet you don't even own a GH5 either. Professional videographers aren't using the GH5 as their main camera on production and never have. Ever. The GH5 failed to capture that market. Maybe shooting the local donut shop with the GH5 but not serious work. If people were using the GH5 you would be posting video non stop. 

And did you say the Z6 has bad CS? We all know how off color on the GH5 can be so much so that the S1 is showing GH5 owners real color. I mentioned the S1 because you're already biased towards the Z6 and the S1 is in the Lumix family. The S1 also shares the Z6 CS from footage I've seen. 

And if we are are in the videographers world how come you seem to forget images quality is still king. I know you keep talking about features but image quality is what people see and respond too. 

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1 hour ago, Skip77 said:

Do you own the Z6? No. Then why are you so opinionated about a camera you don't own or tried? 

I had a Z7 for 10 days and returned it. AF-C auto focus in stills mode was too bad. Color in video was good but did not find it special (tendency towards Yellow). EVF and back screen quality are great. The camera has some usability limitations in Video mode, missing some practical tools for video work. I am a hybrid shooter so hated the fact that you cannot switch to M video mode directly from P/A/S modes in stills, you always have to dial first to M stills then switch to video. In other cameras, no matter in what stills mode you are, you can switch directly to M video.

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11 minutes ago, liork said:

I had a Z7 for 10 days and returned it. AF-C auto focus in stills mode was too bad. Color in video was good but did not find it special (tendency towards Yellow). EVF and back screen quality are great. The camera has some usability limitations in Video mode, missing some practical tools for video work. I am a hybrid shooter so hated the fact that you cannot switch to M video mode directly from P/A/S modes in stills, you always have to dial first to M stills then switch to video. In other cameras, no matter in what stills mode you are, you can switch directly to M video.

You can go full M mode in video so the control you guys are complaining about are weak. You can switch to M mode while in video mode, just not while recording. AWB is also your friend.

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1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

I am not trolling shit.

Oh, sure you are not...

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

 If you are going to try and make a living with any of the newer Mirrorless cameras the Nikon Z6 would be on the bottom of the pile. It is the worse on all of them for features you need to get the job done. And I would argue it also has the worse CS. Sure the 4K crop on the EOS-R is the pits, but it has great AF, CS, and everything in camera you need tool wise. Someone always has to be last and the Nikon is it simple as that. There isn't a person on here but, you know who, is going to use the Z6 over the GH5 if you have an important, only one chance in hell to do it, video shoot. Will it get better, sure it will, but as of now it is not repeatable reliable. Is it a crappy camera, heck no, but it is still last.

Your non-stop peremptorily assertions and fallacious arguments is not "trolling" ; this is "Jonpaiing" in cow-boy style. I understand why you are constantly fighting with a lot of other members.

Seriously, you've made this thread awful to read. I'm out.

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20 minutes ago, Geoff_L said:

Oh, sure you are not...

Your non-stop peremptorily assertions and fallacious arguments is not "trolling" ; this is "Jonpaiing" in cow-boy style. I understand why you are constantly fighting with a lot of other members.

Seriously, you've made this thread awful to read. I'm out.

Ah and here I thought you liked me.  ☹️ I have reached an age when I don't sugar coat anything. You have your opinion, I have mine. You just are riding the wrong horse for the job. You took a Pony to a Cattle Drive. Nikon has Far Far less experience on the video side than the other players. And it shows. And they will probably always be behind.

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5 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Ah and here I thought you liked me.  ☹️ I have reached an age when I don't sugar coat anything. You have your opinion, I have mine. You just are riding the wrong horse for the job. You took a Pony to a Cattle Drive.

Dude you haven't even used the Z6. So with the amount if junk you keep throwing out your would think that you've at least tried it and put it thur some test.

You throw out feature and specs but ignore color science, image quality and the organic look each camera brings to the table or doesn't bring to the table. You're the junk guy that's always pushing the out of date older camera for cheap while knocking down the newer cameras. You did this with the GH5 and in this thread the Panasonic camcorder and C100.  In two years the Z6 will be older and you'll say for the money go get a Z6. 

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Because the new stuff doesn't look any better than the old stuff. Now if you Have to have 6K, 8K you have to go new. And you paid big ass money for new,  maybe flawed, unproven stuff. How many Z mounts lenses people going to buy for it. Not many I bet. So you are not even getting the best out of it it can do. And you keep talking Photos. Hell it doesn't have many more mp than a m4/3 camera. I can put a SB on a m4/3 and get damn near as big as full frame. Now if you had the Z7 that might be a different story for Photos. But then it is even worse for video. I am sure the Panny S1R will be also. Sometimes big is not better for video, or new. When it comes to just flat out good looking video the PK4 is going to win on this new stuff. But it needs too much add on stuff to make it as practical as say the EOS-R or the a7 III. But all of them can make video happen new or old, it is just some are a hell of a lot easier, better suited to make that happen.

I just think the Nikon is the new kid on the block playing with the big boys now. You can't just be good, you have to be great to stand out. Now on the Photo side it may be the strongest. Well the Panny S1, but that is still unknown in the long run. I am sure the Nikon is Way better AF wise. CS wise between them in Photo I have not bothered to look. Not interested either. The newer CS on Panny cameras, particularly on the GH5s is pretty good. Most everyone had caught up with Canon, or nearly copied them CS wise. Sony looks like they have even surpassed Canon on AF now. Crazy times right now on the video side. Photo side, Ho Hum. But the eye focus, eye tracking is a nice touch for Photos. But Sony has has that for years now.

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35 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Because the new stuff doesn't look any better than the old stuff. Now if you Have to have 6K, 8K you have to go new. And you paid big ass money for new,  maybe flawed, unproven stuff. How many Z mounts lenses people going to buy for it. Not many I bet. So you are not even getting the best out of it it can do. And you keep talking Photos. Hell it doesn't have many more mp than a m4/3 camera. I can put a SB on a m4/3 and get damn near as big as full frame. Now if you had the Z7 that might be a different story for Photos. But then it is even worse for video. I am sure the Panny S1R will be also. Sometimes big is not better for video, or new. When it comes to just flat out good looking video the PK4 is going to win on this new stuff. But it needs too much add on stuff to make it as practical as say the EOS-R or the a7 III. But all of them can make video happen new or old, it is just some are a hell of a lot easier, better suited to make that happen.

I just think the Nikon is the new kid on the block playing with the big boys now. You can't just be good, you have to be great to stand out. Now on the Photo side it may be the strongest. Well the Panny S1, but that is still unknown in the long run. I am sure the Nikon is Way better AF wise. CS wise between them in Photo I have not bothered to look. Not interested either. The newer CS on Panny cameras, particularly on the GH5s is pretty good. Most everyone had caught up with Canon, or nearly copied them CS wise. Sony looks like they have even surpassed Canon on AF now. Crazy times right now on the video side. Photo side, Ho Hum. But the eye focus, eye tracking is a nice touch for Photos. But Sony has has that for years now.

Thanks for the detailed response. We are like peanut butter and jelly. You come from the older gear and I love the new stuff. I tested the Z6 next to the A6500 for color, rolling shutter, IBIS, screen jello wobble effect, color again, based on video performance and the Z6 totally destroyed the A6500. I think you're dismissing the Z6 on video you watch online and are missing the point that the Z6 offers better video capabilities then the A7RIII, A7III and A9. 

Now the Z6 does 4K video and just like Canon does with the C200 then Z6 is packing as much data into each file and this is one reason Z6 video carries more detail and information. The Canon 1DX II is the same way. So to throw out all the comments like the Z6 is a turkey and last out of all the mirrorless cameras is not being honest. Pair the Z6 with Atomos Ninja and it gets even better. 

My issue with Sony is color reproduction, it's not science because it's a choice Sony has made and they got it wrong. Do you ever wonder why Sony (mirrorless) footage is graded like crazy to get away from any natural look? 

Did you just try and say the GH5 can compete with the Nikon Z6 for photography? It's cool you defend your purchase in the GH5 as much as you do. 

I've attached a visual that shows sensor size comparison and when you break it down you get more data, more detail and better image from a full frame sensor. 

 

Camera-sensor-sizes-2018-PhotoSeek.jpg

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1 minute ago, Skip77 said:

I tested the Z6 next to the A6500 for color, rolling shutter, IBIS, screen jello wobble effect, color again, based on video performance and the Z6 totally destroyed the A6500.

The GH5 also totally destroys the A6500. I believe the A6500 is one of the main reasons there is a general negativity towards Sony. It has odd color (to be generous) and the worst possible rolling shutter.

3 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

I've attached a visual that shows sensor size comparison and when you break it down you get more data, more detail and better image from a full frame sensor. 

I think we all know how big sensors are. Size does not necessarily mean more detail, or better image, a lot of that is determined by the processing done afterwards. And sensor size has nothing to do with the amount of data unless you keep pixel pitch the same. I think the GH5's 4:3 open gate mode records more pixels/data than the Z6 in 16:9 UHD, and certainly packs it into a beefier codec.

From what I have seen, the Z6 doesn't have a particularly good image, compared to a GH5 at native ISO. Maybe that's because I've actually worked with Gh5 footage on real projects, whereas I've only downloaded test clips of the Z6. But the GH5 holds up better to grading with high data rates. I haven't tried to work with any externally recorded Z6 footage yet, but, as soon as you require an external recorder attached with a feeble HDMI cable, you've really lost my interest. It's a workaround to the fact that many DSLR-style cameras don't come with the video codecs and tools we need.

That isn't to say the Z6 is bad. I'd rather have a Z6 than a GH5, but it's not because the video image fidelity is better at native ISO. Low light is much better, and full frame means I'd use vintage lenses at their native FOV. But I really think it's a trade off with the current batch of smaller sensor cameras that have more video-oriented features.

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