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Andrew Reid

Nikon Z6 features 4K N-LOG, 10bit HDMI output and 120fps 1080p

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1 hour ago, Skip77 said:

I'm not a fan of the C100 as the camera to buy for cooperate, doc work. 1080p on the C200 or most camera are not detailed enough (outside of Arri). I think you're selling your self short on the Z6 or S1 ( I say both because the image and specs look exactly the same and I honestly think the collaborated on the two cameras). The Z6 holds it's own against the D850 as in a second camera if you go with Nikon and get Nikon glass. The cine line up and rental outlets have their place for what we do and the Z6 is not the answer yet but it is the answer as a B-camera and A-camera on certain jobs like corporate, doc work act. 

Old school thinking says stay with a 5 year old cine camera for $3,500 but the sensor has so much time before it has issues and the whole giant battery, rig is about to be outdated as the only way you get a camera up and running. I am confused that you say no to the Atomos and Z6 but say just go buy a used cine camera and be done with it. 

12bit Raw with the Atomos and Z6 to XQD cards is beyond what the A7III can do or the GH5. To me the GH5 is the turkey of the bunch because you can't get around bad color and 4/3 compressed footage. The GH5 was a great jump in technology at the time but it has more smoke and mirrors then any camera Sony ever marketed and Panasonic got everyone to pay 1K dollars more then they should have for the GH5. 

Surprised you say this about the Z6 and S1 as they S1 totally kills the Z6 image quality wise. Then there's the high-ISO performance where the Z6 isn't even remotely close, as in around 2 stops worse and still inferior image quality.

 

 

Watche from 2:37, it's night and day between them and there's no resemblance at all.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
8 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Oh bullshit. The new Sony Venice CS is one of the best on the market now. It looks more Canon than Canon is. You are just talking out of your ass now. And the new Nikons have the worse out now. Fuji and Canon makes the new Nikon CS look like Hammered Dog Shit. And I liked Nikon until this turkey landed. I even have a Nikon DSLR. They need their ass beat. They must have hired the 3 Blind Mice for this new CS.

What are you talking about? I own the Z6 and the X-T3 and while I prefer the Eterna profile for video, the Z6 has incredible colors, much better than any Sony I’ve ever used and owned. And stop bitching all over the thread about the “crushed blacks” on the Z6 - use flat profile or me Reid’s z-log or dial it in using Nikons own software and I can promise you the DR is at least as good as in the d750, which I also used to own. That said the z6 unfortunately lacks some incredibly useful features when it comes to video, but good color or wide DR, it has it in spades.

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43 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Smoke and mirrors?! GH5 is still the most dependable video tool for the price.

You do not even have a light meter on the Z (as I learned recently!).

How "was a great jump in technology at the time" when noone else can compete internally?

..and there is always the P4K..

 

The GH5 promised 400mbps and everyone had just jumped on that train and when it came out you had ZERO upgrade in picture quality or data being recorded. Poor ass AF on every level and bad low light processing. As an investment no-way would I go with the GH5 over the Nikon Z6 for 100 reasons. You can't spec your way out of compressed video, poor frame stutter on panning or moving subjects. 

I want the best image quality as the foundation of my video camera. Nikon has better color, better color in shadows and full frame sensor readout and 12 bit beautiful RAW. As any professional if they use an external recorder monitor like the Atomos. 

The P4K seems like a great camera and great investment. 

If the GH5 was as great as you think then the GH5s would never have been released and no need for the Lumix S1. The S1 is a better camera for video then the GH5. And I know GH5 owners won't like that comment but it's true. The roadmap for 2019 has been reset and the GH5 is not as relevant as you want it to be. 

14 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

What are you talking about? I own the Z6 and the X-T3 and while I prefer the Eterna profile for video, the Z6 has incredible colors, much better than any Sony I’ve ever used and owned. And stop bitching all over the thread about the “crushed blacks” on the Z6 - use flat profile or me Reid’s z-log or dial it in using Nikons own software and I can promise you the DR is at least as good as in the d750, which I also used to own. That said the z6 unfortunately lacks some incredibly useful features when it comes to video, but good color or wide DR, it has it in spades.

You are correct. The Atomos is supposed to bridge the gap for videographers with it's features and I am not worried about what Nikon left out. 

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22 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

What are you talking about? I own the Z6 and the X-T3 and while I prefer the Eterna profile for video, the Z6 has incredible colors, much better than any Sony I’ve ever used and owned. And stop bitching all over the thread about the “crushed blacks” on the Z6 - use flat profile or me Reid’s z-log or dial it in using Nikons own software and I can promise you the DR is at least as good as in the d750, which I also used to own.

He can't use the flat profile (or EOSHD's Z-log), because he doesn't have a Z6

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2 hours ago, TheBoogieKnight said:

Surprised you say this about the Z6 and S1 as they S1 totally kills the Z6 image quality wise. Then there's the high-ISO performance where the Z6 isn't even remotely close, as in around 2 stops worse and still inferior image quality.

 

 

Watche from 2:37, it's night and day between them and there's no resemblance at all.

You mean this test by the same guy? Looks like the Z6 and S1 look very close to the same to me except the S1 has CRSUHED BLACKS on the guys shirt. Other then that the look the same. And who shoots at 204,800? 

And we are waiting for footage that shows the S1 kills the Z6 in image quality. Are you trolling us?

 

 

4 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Well None of the new mirrorless cameras I would buy right now. They are all too flawed for me right now other than the GH5. Most require a external recorder, or as much crap hanging off of one, PK4, then you paid for the camera. The Sony a7 III is not too bad, but FF lenses for it are breathtakingly expensive, and like all the major brands ,the fly by wire lenses just suck ass for them on the video side. With all the bullshit, if a person is serious, you might as well just buy a used Cine camera and be done with a lot of the troubles. You figure that people have made a full time living with something you can buy used now for 3,500 bucks or less on the Cine side. Once you have owned one having all they offer is damn hard going to a Hybrid, at least to me.

And for super cheap the OG BMPCC is still a better output than Any of the Mirrorless are if you are gong for a Cine look. Now for modern, Corporate, Doc work you want a C100, C300 of some kind. It just depends how serious you are I guess. I have serious doubts how many people Really need 4K yet in the is day and age. But no do all camera is Ever going to be as good or convenient as a dedicated Cine camera, new or old. Now if you are into Drone work well a Mirrorless is a good option but the new DJI 1" sensor ones are as good for most stuff, and cheaper, easier in the long run. This having a good video camera and a good Photo camera all in one is still not a reasonable reality in my mind yet. Might never be. You just am not ever going to have all the manual buttons, switches, battery capacity you really need to use, because of learned muscle memory.

If you are just going to toy around with video, nothing wrong with that, you might as well use your Smartphone, or buy a GoPro, or an Osmo Pocket. If you aren't making some kind of money off of the stuff you have I don't see throwing tons of money at something whether you can even afford it. Just go out and buy a old Panasonic AF100 or a Sony FS100 and learn how to operate a once decent Cine camera, and learn what they can and can't do. Skill trumps Any equipment. And having a half assed hybrid doesn't help the situation.

Which one is the half assed hybrid? The GH5? It couldn't be that one because still images aren't even Canon Ti3 / K-Mart level. You crack me up with the Panasonic AF100 comment because the Z6 destroys that ancient camcorder. But I know it takes time to forget about those great camcorders and how many we bought back in the day. Lol

4 hours ago, Skip77 said:

Here's some test footage with the Z6 - from 00:00 to 00:23 was what I thought was correct settings based on viewfinder and back LCD panel. from 00:24 to the end was later in the day and adjustments made. This is in no way dialed in and I'm still finding out what this camera can do.

Crushed shadows or how they adjust is apparent and highlight seem to be recovered. What do you guys think?

 

No comments on the video? crushed blacks or anything?

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Oh hell just about anything kills the AF100 now, but it is a learning tool. A way to experiment on the cheap. It is a camera you can take some pride on as saying You got great footage of it, not a camera on Auto everything. Cine Like D on it is not as shabby as you would think. It is just not so hot on highlight roll off.

And a GH5 will just flat kick your Z6's ass on a job. The Nikon is a half ass first attempt, not surprisingly. The GH5 is a polished, finished camera. There is not a F ing way in hell you are going to use the Z6 on a high pressure high paying job and pull if off. It is lacking too much stuff you Need to have.

Not going to see any crushed blacks on that video because you are not shooting anything that is black or really low light.  My iPhone could shoot that scene. But her hair was spot on exposure wise I will give you that. Looked great. Any camera made today can cover Rec.709.

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3 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Oh hell just about anything kills the AF100 now, but it is a learning tool. A way to experiment on the cheap. Cine Like D on it is not as shabby as you would think.

Not going to see any crushed blacks on that video because you are not shooting anything that is black or really low light.  My iPhone could shoot that scene. But her hair was spot on exposure wise I will give you that. Looked great. Any camera made today can cover Rec.709.

If you grade straight out of camera on the Z6 you'll get crushed blacks and that's true with anything. Your iPhone would look like dog poo if you shot that scene. Not sure what the Z6 did too you but we can set up a hotline or goFundMe if you want. The Z6 is not perfect but it delivers on quality and the GH5 little 4/3 compressed video loss like a toy compared to this.  

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4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

He can't use the flat profile (or EOSHD's Z-log), because he doesn't have a Z6

I probably never will own one either. You won't either, you are too cheap, and I am too poor.. They will have to depend on Sony, and so Sony Always knows what they are up to. They are just too small of a company. Sony, Canon and Panny have been making Pro level stuff too long for them to catch up. Plus they have no upward path to go to. So if you get serious into them then what, you buy a Sony? Silly stuff. Dead end company on the video side as far as I am concerned.

I can see Fuji taking over their #2 spot, Sony also. Then it will get hairy, real hairy as Nikon has no other real big time business to fall back on. A couple of Missteps and they are done. Somebody is going to bit the dust with all these company's into FF. I would put my Money on Nikon loosing. The photo side is dead for all of them. Smartphones are eating in their ass more everyday. Nobody even prints anymore, why do you need a 41mp camera?

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1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

I probably never will own one either. You won't either, you are too cheap, and I am too poor..

True, I'm unlikely to own specifically a Nikon Z6 in the near future. 
Especially as I see it as tough for the Panasonic G85 to be knocked off its top spot as my preferred camera to upgrade to next. Everything else sub $1K just seems to fall short of the G85 in one way or another. (the Fujifilm X-T30 for instance has the short 4K recording limit and no IBIS)

However it doesn't seem to unlikely that I might pick one up in two or three years when prices fall, or a "Nikon Z50" (a mirrorless DX camera) if one gets launched (which it surely will one day). As I do have a soft spot for Nikon! (my first ever DSLR: Nikon D50! First ever camera filmed on: Nikon D90!)
 

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Plus they have no upward path to go to.

It is kinda strange they haven't brought out a cinema grade camera. 
Just simply sticking the Z6 into a bigger body with SDI/TC/NDs and internal raw would be very popular. 

 

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

I can see Fuji taking over their #2 spot

Very very unlikely. Not going to happen in the next couple of years, or even double that time span. 

 

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40 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

It is kinda strange they haven't brought out a cinema grade camera. 
Just simply sticking the Z6 into a bigger body with SDI/TC/NDs and internal raw would be very popular. 

 

Yeah that would be easy for them to do. And I think it would sell. I know I am hard on Nikon here, but I think for a very first effort on Mirrorless they have done pretty well. They will get the warts polished on them and move forward. But I still think someone is going to bite the dust in the FF market. It could be Panny also to be honest. I think the L mount thing is sort of a "strange" way forward. Their AF isn't going to help the cause either.

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1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

I probably never will own one either. You won't either, you are too cheap, and I am too poor.. They will have to depend on Sony, and so Sony Always knows what they are up to. They are just too small of a company. Sony, Canon and Panny have been making Pro level stuff too long for them to catch up. Plus they have no upward path to go to. So if you get serious into them then what, you buy a Sony? Silly stuff. Dead end company on the video side as far as I am concerned.

I can see Fuji taking over their #2 spot, Sony also. Then it will get hairy, real hairy as Nikon has no other real big time business to fall back on. A couple of Missteps and they are done. Somebody is going to bit the dust with all these company's into FF. I would put my Money on Nikon loosing. The photo side is dead for all of them. Smartphones are eating in their ass more everyday. Nobody even prints anymore, why do you need a 41mp camera?

Nikon is not going anywhere. Canon, Nikon and then Sony lead sales in cameras. Photo's are part of the hybrid camera we are discussing and even though the GH5 takes shitty photo's the other brands care about photo's because that's the one thing the consumer can do and will post when they purchase their new camera. You keep talking double speak outta both sides of your mouth by saying photo's are dead but we are talking about the mirrorless market that takes photo's and art used by professional. It's not like all the DSLR's are going to stop working at midnight and mirrorless camera won't have standards to live up to. 

The Z Cam E2 and P4K have reset the cine filed to some extent and helped lower the budgets for gear and cut into C200 and FS7 rentals. Camera makers will always have a price point for the next camera just like they did 12 years ago for the $8,000 cine camcorder from JVC, and even higher for Sony and the others. Some guys put down $8,000 grand on that JVC camcorder back in the day and is still upset about it. 

I love photography as much as cinematography and photography is still the image cinematographers are chasing. I have the Z6 and Sony A6500 and 50mm 1.8 for both of them, so I'm wide open to the next best camera on the market. My bet is the Z6 with 12 bit Raw or the S1or Sony could catch up to them with the A7SIII. 

Sony likes to control the market and I'm not sure they will cannibalize their product line up when they introduce the A7SIII.

2 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah that would be easy for them to do. And I think it would sell. I know I am hard on Nikon here, but I think for a very first effort on Mirrorless they have done pretty well. They will get the warts polished on them and move forward. But I still think someone is going to bite the dust in the FF market. It could be Panny also to be honest. I think the L mount thing is sort of a "strange" way forward. Their AF isn't going to help the cause either.

Who are the full frame players? Canon, Sony, Nikon and Panasonic. I think they will all be ok. Why? Because Canon has it's own following that will buy the latest handicapped camera they put out. Sony is the leader in marketing and no worries right now. Nikon is moving in the right direction and they need to prove they can provide firmware update to the Z line up. Panasonic will support the S1 lineup and if anything their micro 4/3 line up might suffer going into 2020. Panasonic can repackage the GH5 into the next G8, 9, 10, 11, 12 line ups like Canon does and it keeps 4/3 division moving forward. The S1 and S1R are to good and an upgrade in technology for Panasonic to fold up and go back to micro 4/3 cameras only.  Panasonic also knows they played the game with the GH5 and GH5s and that that market will only bite so many times before they start to realize their buying hyped specs instead of quality. The pushed the GH5 very far and I'm not sure the GH6 can make the improvement they need. 

Think about it. BMP4K already pushes the shared 4/3 sensor as the GH5s beyond what Panasonic has done and the same with the Z Cam. Do you really think Panasonic is going to try and match those two companies in 4/3 quality for cinematographers? Panasonic want GH5 users to jump up to the S1 line up. 

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You can go out and buy a Nikon D800 and take photos for 800 bucks.. Why would people buy a whole new mount just to do that. You can buy a Sony A7r for 600 bucks. Photo cameras have made Zero headway in the last 6, 7 years. Real camera photography is going the way of the Dinosaur. Shame really, but it is what it is.

Sony seems to have been willing to throw all and any of their customers under the bus to advance. I don't see that changing to be honest. I really doubt the a7s mk III is just going to be some modest update. And all this Raw stuff. Hardly anyone is really going to use Raw as a recording media, even Pros. It is a data hog, not easy to grade, it is if you are skilled, but how many are, and who has the computer to even do it. I think it is more of a fancy selling gimmick than a true benefit to the masses.The C200 has proved that . I think even bRaw is going to prove to be not as great a Codec as BMD is touting in the long run. I doubt many other company's are going to adopt it. And BMD probably represents 2% of the total market for cameras. The Atomos thing probably stands a better chance, but how many can afford to add a Recorder to an already expensive camera and lenses. Not a lot.

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2 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

And a GH5 will just flat kick your Z6's ass on a job. The Nikon is a half ass first attempt, not surprisingly. The GH5 is a polished, finished camera. There is not a F ing way in hell you are going to use the Z6 on a high pressure high paying job and pull if off. It is lacking too much stuff you Need to have.

 

Do you edit you post and add comments?  

The GH5 does not have the proper readout to handle panning and motion and you keep talking about crushed blacks but must not notice how the GH5 handles shadow areas and can't properly resolve heavy shadow areas without crushing blacks and the GH5 has the most video camcorder look on the market. 

The Z6 has already been on high level music videos and showed the quality it could do out of the gate. Some reason you can wrap you mind across the Atomos Ninja working with the Z6 for cinematographers and all the "stuff" needed is the same stuff you bring on any high pressure job. Can you do some research before you rip into the Z6 and how it works with the Atomos Ninja? 

You just praised Nikon for the Z6 in another post but now say it's half ass first attempt. Ok you hate the Z6 for no reason but you're pissed because it produce better image quality then the GH5. You do know you can't grade the GH5 into good color anymore now that the Z6 is on the market. 

You should know the one thing about cine cameras is that the color palate meets spec and they don't mess around with Sony mirrorless or GH5 color limitations. Nikon upped it's video game to 12bit RAW and that somehow bothers you. And don't keep jabbing about features and setting when the Z6 paired with the Atomos Ninja solves those issues.

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17 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

Do you edit you post and add comments?  

The GH5 does not have the proper readout to handle panning and motion and you keep talking about crushed blacks but must not notice how the GH5 handles shadow areas and can't properly resolve heavy shadow areas without crushing blacks and the GH5 has the most video camcorder look on the market. 

The Z6 has already been on high level music videos and showed the quality it could do out of the gate. Some reason you can wrap you mind across the Atomos Ninja working with the Z6 for cinematographers and all the "stuff" needed is the same stuff you bring on any high pressure job. Can you do some research before you rip into the Z6 and how it works with the Atomos Ninja? 

You just praised Nikon for the Z6 in another post but now say it's half ass first attempt. Ok you hate the Z6 for no reason but you're pissed because it produce better image quality then the GH5. You do know you can't grade the GH5 into good color anymore now that the Z6 is on the market. 

You should know the one thing about cine cameras is that the color palate meets spec and they don't mess around with Sony mirrorless or GH5 color limitations. Nikon upped it's video game to 12bit RAW and that somehow bothers you. And don't keep jabbing about features and setting when the Z6 paired with the Atomos Ninja solves those issues.

Show me footage of ANY 12bit Nikon Raw video! And sure I edit after I post. I am old, I am slower than you young Whipper Snappers. 😊 When you say a Nikon Z6 is better than a GH5 for video that is just silly. They are night and day apart. And the Nikon you really Have to have an external recorder to do much of anything video wise with it. WTF. But they will get it better down the road.

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14 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

You can go out and buy a Nikon D800 and take photos for 800 bucks.. Why would people buy a whole new mount just to do that. You can buy a Sony A7r for 600 bucks. Photo cameras have made Zero headway in the last 6, 7 years. Real camera photography is going the way of the Dinosaur. Shame really, but it is what it is.

Sony seems to have been willing to throw all and any of their customers under the bus to advance. I don't see that changing to be honest. I really doubt the a7s mk III is just going to be some modest update. And all this Raw stuff. Hardly anyone is really going to use Raw as a recording media, even Pros. It is a data hog, not easy to grade, it is if you are skilled, but how many are, and who has the computer to even do it. I think it is more of a fancy selling gimmick than a true benefit to the masses.The C200 has proved that . I think even bRaw is going to prove to be not as great a Codec as BMD is touting in the long run. I doubt many other company's are going to adopt it. And BMD probably represents 2% of the total market for cameras. The Atomos thing probably stands a better chance, but how many can afford to add a Recorder to an already expensive camera and lenses. Not a lot.

You make some good points. Some I agree with some I don't.

Photography is not going away (making money at it has already died a slow death). The reason it will still be around is these hybrid cameras are hybrid and will never just go video. To many people want fast AF and EYE AF that Sony is marketing like crazy. So this alone keeps photography alive. 

The Atomos with the Z6 and 12 bit raw is on the table for the guys like me that will use it if and when we need it. The Atomos recorder is the day rate cost of the C200 and you own it. I can get C200 quality out of the Z6 with the Atomos and 10 bit right now.  12 bit Raw ProRes is suppose to be smaller in file size the other raw formats. 

Sony will have a new gimmick with the A7SIII and the market will respond. 

My preferred camera for cost, value and image quality would be the C200. I've used that camera on gigs and it's a great camera. Just not in my price range right now. 

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1 minute ago, Skip77 said:

You make some good points. Some I agree with some I don't.

Photography is not going away (making money at it has already died a slow death). The reason it will still be around is these hybrid cameras are hybrid and will never just go video. To many people want fast AF and EYE AF that Sony is marketing like crazy. So this alone keeps photography alive. 

The Atomos with the Z6 and 12 bit raw is on the table for the guys like me that will use it if and when we need it. The Atomos recorder is the day rate cost of the C200 and you own it. I can get C200 quality out of the Z6 with the Atomos and 10 bit right now.  12 bit Raw ProRes is suppose to be smaller in file size the other raw formats. 

Sony will have a new gimmick with the A7SIII and the market will respond. 

My preferred camera for cost, value and image quality would be the C200. I've used that camera on gigs and it's a great camera. Just not in my price range right now. 

Good points also. Yeah I doubt many would turn a C200 down if they had the money. Great CS, and AF, That combo is what you kill to have.

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5 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Show me footage of ANY 12bit Nikon Raw video! And sure I edit after I post. I am old, I am slower than you young Whipper Snappers. When you say a Nikon Z6 is better than a GH5 for video that is just silly ass talk. They are night and day apart. And the Nikon you really Have to have an external recorder to do much of anything video wise with it. WTF.

This is were you're wrong about the Z6 and it's video quality. At 8 bit the full frame with full sensor readout at 144 Mbps with the Z6 means better detail (not sharpness) then the GH5 and it's compressed micro 4/3 sensor. Faster readout from sensor to processor on the Z6 that solves the GH5's pan / motion stutter. Better color across the board on the Z6 and this is also color in the shadows, low light noise and color science that the GH5 has issues with. All this with 8 bit internal recording on the Z6. 

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I really doubt may people on here are going to throw their GH5 away and run out and buy a Z6 to shoot money shoots with. Sure if you want to go FF, HIGHLY over rated for video, it is in the running. All you have to give up, nah.

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5 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

I really doubt may people on here are going to throw their GH5 away and run out and buy a Z6 to shoot money shoots with. Sure if you want to go FF, HIGHLY over rated for video, it is in the running. All you have to give up, nah.

The Z6 and advantages I mentioned were for video compared to the GH5 even in 8 bit. You're welcome to post GH5 videos and prove me wrong. 

Hollywood is moving to full frame cine cameras and the roadmap for 2020 and beyond is full frame. So full frame for video is actually the way to go given the options on the market in 2019. Why would anyone promote the Gh5 in 2019 over full frame mirrorless for video? Poor AF and poor sensor readout cripples the GH5 for serious work. What are you going to do on set when you need a panning shot or panning shot with the subject moving? Are you going to try and explain the stutter away to the client as "all cameras do this"?  

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There isn't ANYONE, even Hollywood that Needs FF. It is just a F ing money grab to get people to by more shit. The 16mm sensor in the OG BMPCC proves you don't need shit for a sensor size, just good voodoo on the sensor and good Codecs.

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