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Raafi Rivero

Kinefinity Terra 4k has landed

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In my experience, this varies from company to company. Some companies give you almost 100% creative control (Panasonic), while others want you to say specific things about the product.  I have always stayed away from companies that do the latter. If we get into talks and they say "We would like you to mention this and this", I'm out. 

That said, if I sign on then I'm under contract to do a job. Who in their right mind knowingly gives less than 100% to a client?  It doesn't matter how big of a job it is, I have always tried to go above and beyond.  Whether it's a wedding, an unpaid thing for a friend, or a commercial.  All you need to understand the relationship here, is apply your own experience with clients on bigger jobs you've had.  Same thing.  You do your best, you attempt to give them a great product, all the while maintaining as much artistic integrity as possible. 

The only projects where artistic integrity is your sole objective, are self funded narratives.  Everything else...you have someone paying the bills.

TL:DR Watch the footage, listen to what the shills say, but ultimately YOU know what you're shopping for...so just look at the specs and the footage and pull the trigger. You can expect to hear the "pros" section of the list from the shills, but you have to wait for someone that isn't associated with the company to hear the "cons". 

10 hours ago, mercer said:

Under your rules of trusted sources, how could you even trust any positive post about the GH5/GH5s by Neumann Films?

Because I was on here shilling "face to face" :) In all seriousness, you shouldn't need any of that though. You know what the specs mean.  Combined with test footage you just make a "pros and cons/budget list" and the camera you need should be easy to determine.  I tried to drop hints to prevent people from buying a GH5 before this was announced. I knew that would be a point of contention with a ton of potential customers.  I didn't really try to shill...just inform that something else was coming and that maybe people should wait to make a decision.  $2000 is quite a bit of money and it's worth spending some time to make sure you invest in the thing that fits your needs.  No different than buying a car.

The "camera doesn't matter" crowd is flat out incorrect.  All large purchases matter.  If you think otherwise, put your significant other in charge of your finances. Immediately. 

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8 minutes ago, Neumann Films said:

Because I was on here shilling "face to face" :)

Only the British could come up with this.

"shilling

12 pence, or 3 groats, or 2 groats 2 pence and four farthings, or maybe even 4 thruppence, or 1/5 crown.... or was it 2 tuppence, a groat and 16 half-pence. I could also be 1/10 crown and tanner. But then again you could just say it was a bob.

Yes, and here's your change, 3 pounds 6 shillings 20 and 4 pence."

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7 hours ago, Juxx989 said:

Found this video of bloom Talking about it 

Figured you'd Dig it.

 

 

I watched this and a few other reviews of the Kinnefinity Terra 4k camera and all seem to suggest excellent low light, due to the dual iso mode (which incidently sets in automatically).

 

I am suddenly wondering why doesn't Blackmagic pop one of these sensors into the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera for version 2.0, and improve the low light (along with battery life, sound preamps and get a decent articulating screen). The sensor size is on the lines of the JVC GY-LS300 (not identical though). Even if it prices the camera at $1500-$2000, it will be a runaway success. 

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On 1/17/2018 at 6:18 AM, webrunner5 said:

Well I am not going to argue about horse hairs. I have been at the beginning of all of these "breakthroughs" you know as normal now..  I was not born yesterday. What you have, I helped create. It is part of my money that you have in your hands. You are welcome! Enjoy. There are people that came before you that payed for what you got..Remember that!

Yeah right...

 

On 2/1/2018 at 6:05 PM, DBounce said:

Well they state in the article that he will be appearing at their stand to answer customer questions and share his experience from using their camera... so he is either doing this out of charity or he’s getting something in return. One would naturally assume the latter, as Kinefinity is not a nonprofit organization. 

Really people, it’s not that far of a reach. I doubt many here can honestly say they would spend all day working as an unpaid rep for any “for-profit” company. Why would they? Hey I like Canon, Panasonic, Sony and many more, and I would happily check out their stand at whatever show... but I’m not working there for free. I sincerely doubt Mr.Bloom would either.

He’s probably charging them for use of his name and image in the promotional material also. 

Do the math.

"One would naturally assume the latter" Why would you assume the latter? Why can't he be doing this out of charity? What makes you so biased towards the idea that PB would be in this for the money? You don't make any sense :/

On 1/26/2018 at 1:50 PM, guru said:

I don't like the picture out of Kinefinity, didn't like it from the first test clip I saw years ago. I though they would change that but it is the same, too blue in some shots and too green/yellow in others, skintones are not natural, everything looks cheap and that camera is not that cheap. If you don't need faster slowmo than 4k/60p, C200 is much much better and versatile camera today..

That's cool, tastes are tastes. But this camera has been compared to the Alexa for a reason. If you'd tell anyone the c200 looked remotely like an Alexa people would laugh in your face.

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Over the course of several years that I've been following Kinefinity and owning the KineMini I've found that there is a certain group that has a negative bias towards the company and try to pick apart every little detail that they don't do right. It's like Trump supporters still moaning about Hillary's emails.

Yes, I've been critical of many of their choices and many times I considered moving to a different brand. Now I have a Terra 4K being delivered any day. Why? Because it is perfect for ME and MY line of work.

But whatever. If you don't want it, don't buy it. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Homerus said:

Yeah right...

 

"One would naturally assume the latter" Why would you assume the latter? Why can't he be doing this out of charity? What makes you so biased towards the idea that PB would be in this for the money? You don't make any sense :/

Why would I assume?

 Because PB has stated at the beginning of videos that there are exceptions where he will take pay to promote a product. Do you really think he worked the Kinefinity booth for two days for free?

 

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I've been interested in Kinefinity since the Kine Mini 4k. I saw a commercial shot on the camera and I was astounded at the quality. 

Then the Terra 6k came, which on paper, seemed like the ideal cinema camera. 

I'm glad to see the Terra 4k now has a UK distributor! (hooray!)

Philip Bloom is a huge asset to push the camera into more hands. Couldn't care less if he's being paid or not. The Kinefinity community are often very positive about the cameras. 

I think I might try and demo one ;) 

p.s a lot of people are nervous about buying from a small and little known company, but did you know Kinefinity is actually under the umbrella of a huge, global Chinese aerospace company (specialising in cameras?). Can't remember the name.... 

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5 hours ago, Homerus said:

Yeah right..."

 

Who do you think payed for all the R&D they have now? It i is people like me and others when this stuff was young," Digital" that payed out the ass for the stuff you can buy for 1,000 bucks or less today. I bet you probably didn't pay for it.

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58 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I've been interested in Kinefinity since the Kine Mini 4k. I saw a commercial shot on the camera and I was astounded at the quality. 

Then the Terra 6k came, which on paper, seemed like the ideal cinema camera. 

I'm glad to see the Terra 4k now has a UK distributor! (hooray!)

Philip Bloom is a huge asset to push the camera into more hands. Couldn't care less if he's being paid or not. The Kinefinity community are often very positive about the cameras. 

I think I might try and demo one ;) 

p.s a lot of people are nervous about buying from a small and little known company, but did you know Kinefinity is actually under the umbrella of a huge, global Chinese aerospace company (specialising in cameras?). Can't remember the name.... 

Yeah but the damn thing is just like Red. You Have to buy their backs, their Grip, you are going to buy their 5" monitor, they probably have a in house tripod base for it, on and on. It is that stuff that cost damn near as much as the camera body. Then down the road they will come out with their own Media just like Red did, saying off the shelf stuff is not reliable in their cameras.

The grip to me is just plain stupid. It won't rotate when you want it to, and the damn thing has 3 tiny ass screws that hold it on. Who the hell thought that idea up??? Yeah it has a great output, but like any new company you are a test dummy for them, and you have to hope they are around 3 years for now. AJA Cion is a great example of , Christ I am glad I didn't buy into them  years ago, and I Almost Did! They have shit around, shit around, and it still looks like shit.

But it is definitely tempting I can say that. I would imagine it has as good of chance as any of them. But down the road I think even Arri will have a 5, 6 thousand dollar camera on the market. They will have to to compete with Panasonic, Sony on their Mirrorless by them. Hell maybe even Canon with their new Mirrorless will wake up by then. :grin: The days of these 80k dollar cameras are coming to an end. Think of a GH6s with 12 bit and Raw, throw a Speed Booster on it, game over.

 

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43 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Yeah but the damn thing is just like Red. You Have to buy their backs, their Grip, you are going to buy their 5" monitor, they probably have a in house tripod base for it, on and on. It is that stuff that cost damn near as much as the camera body. Then down the road they will come out with their own Media just like Red did, saying off the shelf stuff is not reliable in their cameras.

It's no where near the "wallet bomb explosion" that RED cams are with their accessories though. I nearly got a RED once. Super excited, I added it up afterwards, and immediately thought "f*** that!"

Kinefinity offer good value for money. 

47 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

The grip to me is just plain stupid. It won't rotate when you want it to, and the damn thing has 3 tiny ass screws that hold it on. Who the hell thought that idea up??? Yeah it has a great output, but like any new company you are a test dummy for them, and you have to hope they are around 3 years for now. AJA Cion is a great example of , Christ I am glad I didn't buy into them  years ago, and I Almost Did! They have shit around, shit around, and it still looks like shit.

The grip seems necessary, but can't comment on it's usability never having used it. 

AJA Con was dead on arrival. Used that CMV crappy sensor, had 8 stops of DR, it was huge, needed a recorder for the special stuff and didn't have a screen. 

56 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

But it is definitely tempting I can say that. I would imagine it has as good of chance as any of them. But down the road I think even Arri will have a 5, 6 thousand dollar camera on the market. They will have to to compete with Panasonic, Sony on their Mirrorless by them. Hell maybe even Canon with their new Mirrorless will wake up by then. :grin: The days of these 80k dollar cameras are coming to an end. Think of a GH6s with 12 bit and Raw, throw a Speed Booster on it, game over.

 

Yes - if a GH6s had RAW and 10bit across all their frame rates, that would be it. Sort of. Might be. 

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24 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I

Yes - if a GH6s had RAW and 10bit across all their frame rates, that would be it. Sort of. Might be. 

What do you mean "might be"? It Will be down the road. You think Panasonic is going to stop with this Gh5s? You think Sony is not going to in the a7s series down the road? Why do we need a camera as big as a Arri Alexa anymore to shoot. I am a Cine body fan from hell, but with all the buttons on these new cameras, other than no ND filters I don't need a 15 pound camera in reality. And Rumor has it the new Canon mirrorless may have ND's in it.

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Of all the camera companies on the market, I actually believe Panasonic will be the next to bail out of the consumer/prosumer camera business. I assume the GH line will be moved up to their cinema division by the release of the GH6 and with it... a price increase.

But to stay on topic, I think the Terra 4K is really exciting and has a beautiful image... a true cinematic image at a reasonable price point... and I’d love for Kinefinity to take on BM where it will hurts... the Pocket Cinema Camera niche.

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9 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

But down the road I think even Arri will have a 5, 6 thousand dollar camera on the market. They will have to to compete with Panasonic, Sony on their Mirrorless by them. Hell maybe even Canon with their new Mirrorless will wake up by then. :grin: The days of these 80k dollar cameras are coming to an end. Think of a GH6s with 12 bit and Raw, throw a Speed Booster on it, game over.

 

There will always be high-end while industry lasts as the way we know so far.

Players need it for protecting their fees.

You're right on something though: the gap is becoming tighter ever than before -- that's pretty true.

Take a look on the display case for example among TVs in disguise of professional monitors as you wish. Let IPS and Direct LCD technologies inside the cup or even consumer projectors to be used in the arthouse circuit if you get fast refresh rates to mimic larger chip size and increase your lumens basis with easy tricks like this one here:

 

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3 hours ago, Emanuel said:

There will always be high-end while industry lasts as the way we know so far.

 

 

I am not too sure about that. I didn't work in the TV industry when Digital came out but I still had friends there I knew. I don't know what country you live in but here in the United states the Federal Government Made the TV industry switch to Digital. Yeah Had to make them do it.

And the reason they had to make them was it cost freaking Billions and Billions and Billions of dollars for the industry to do it. They basically had to damn near throw everything they had at TV station in the garbage. Only a few newer Tape cameras and no decks to talk about made it. Even the damn TV monitors had to go. They lost money for F ing years and had to Finance the whole damn station to buy all the new shit they had to have. And think about it. They had to Broadcast in Analog until the day they had to switch to Digital!! And they next day rip all the Analog out and throw it away. They had equipment stacked up damn near in in the Restrooms to make it work. Imagine having to have damn near Double everything in one place.

And because of it there is hardly a Independent TV station left in the United States. They all got bought up by 3 or 4 conglomerates that fired some of the old timers, they made the most money, and bought in a bunch of new people that didn't know their ass from a Hole in the ground for hardly any money. And now Nobody makes shit working in a TV station anymore. That is why there are a Ton of Woman on them now. They will work for less. Not the main Breadwinners for the family on average.

And then when 4k came in guess what, all new shit to buy all over again. I just don't see TV stations, Networks doing this HDR, 6k, 8k shit again. It just about Bankrupted them before, they can't keep changing this fast. I ain't happening. And I can't blame them. Maybe it will only be on the web, You Tube and Vimeo, Netflicks. But in our homes, hell I don't know. Tec is changing way to fast to just have to throw 80% of the stuff you have in the garbage and keep starting over. They really can't do it. I have no clue in the end. It ain't pretty.

So the reason I wrote this I am not too sure "There will always be high-end while industry lasts as the way we know so far" may not pan out to be true down the road. Who knows?

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It is a Hell of a lot easier for a Camera manufacturer to make a higher end Camera that shoots say 6k than a TV industry to switch over to broadcast 6k I can tell you that. And the Satellites up in the sky, guess what they are now junk also. And so are the Repeaters on the ground where all those big Dishes are at. All that needs updated now it is digital every time they up the Ante on MP. It is stupid what they expect Stations to have to do. I think the Government may have to take over and that is not a Good thing at all, and hell they will go bankrupt doing it also. This MP race is just F ing stupid in the long run. It will bite them in the ass.

You think your cable bill is expensive now, grab your ass down the road. Even local TV stations will have to be able to get a piece of the pie to survive.

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