Jump to content
BTM_Pix

Would You Perhaps Be Interested In A Different GX80/85 Colour Profile???

Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Orangenz said:

Thank you for the 2012 camera manual link.
As you can see in the manual, cine-d is the most linear of the gamma types.  
A problem in this thread is Mercer using "highlight clipping" interchangeably with "highlight rolloff." Which is unfortunate.
All this is clarified below.

Summarised here for your reading pleasure. This is from a 2016 white paper discussing exposure. 

Panasonic White Paper on Exposure Levels

Most video camera gamma curves are designed to replicate what-you-see-is-what-you-get when the footage is displayed on a video monitor. That’s convenient, but there are sacrifices made in the amount of dynamic range that can be preserved when using a conventional video gamma. Furthermore, video gammas are more linear in design [than vlog], and that means that more “bits” are allocated to storing the brightest stops, than are allocated to store the darkest stops. This can result in mushy shadows, and noise and banding in the shadows if you try to brighten them in post.

Exposure is normally 70 IRE for skin tones, and 100 IRE for highlights.

When shooting in REC 709 gamma, I’m used to setting my zebras at 70 and 100; I would expose for there to be just a little bit of 70-IRE zebras on the brightest highlights on Caucasian skin tones; then I would swap over to Zebra 2 (set to 100 IRE) to check for highlight clipping.

Exposure for VlogL is 55 IRE for Caucasian skin tones, and 80 IRE for highlights.

An individual channel might clip earlier than the zebras indicate so in some situations one might set the vlog-L highlight clipping to a little lower (75 IRE) to minimize possible individual chroma channel clipping.

Exposure is a game between three things:

·        Noise in the shadows – all digital sensors show the most noise in the darkest areas. Under exposing and lifting in post will maximise noise. Raising ISO will also increase noise levels.

·        Retaining the highlights – decide between main subject vs highlights. Deciding which highlights might have to be sacrificed for exposing the main subject is difficult. In an ideal world no highlights will need to go past 100 – welcome to studio set lighting.

·        Maintaining consistent midtones between shots

For a good read on basic ETTR principles and the balance http://www.leeminglutone.com/#howtoettr 

Hope you find this helpful. 

Whoa !!! That's enough gobbledygook for the whole week. Maybe the whole month.

Whenever you refer to a source, please quote the url. Otherwise it becomes difficult to believe what one reads.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

@Orangenz 

"Exposure is normally 70 IRE for skin tones, and 100 IRE for highlights.

When shooting in REC 709 gamma, I’m used to setting my zebras at 70 and 100; I would expose for there to be just a little bit of 70-IRE zebras on the brightest highlights on Caucasian skin tones; then I would swap over to Zebra 2 (set to 100 IRE) to check for highlight clipping."

 

a part of me highly doubts panasonic used language like this in an official white paper. Do you have the direct link to the white paper ?

this information as much as I appreciate it doesn't really confirm anything for me about the design of the Cine D curve and its behavior for example in the upper region of the curve. Is a knee applied to the curve ? Is there highlight compression ? At what point in the curve does the image start losing saturation from over exposure ? This is why camera manufacturers list the reccomended white point of each profile (think SLOG or Hypergamma on SONY cameras). A general set of ETTR rules & best practices is not universal across all makes and models. Our best bet at this point is to start posting our own footage from our own cameras. Again these are general rules to ETTR and does not address the specific curve of the Panasonic cameras. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grimor said:

@BTM_Pix @robbino Here is the old Imgapp v1.9.5 (android) with the Vlog bug if someone wants it.

https://mega.nz/#!YJlQiAzK!j1X1MzwAu84kfwzjXixGj1Njgp9zjQAYCkj9jQUcOAo

All you need now is the correct rev of the GH4 ;)

Unless of course we did this the other way round and I could fool that Android app into thinking that thats exactly what it was talking to........

Mmmm

If anyone has a GH4, if they put up the return from the camera using the Handshake and Connect commands in my html file and then the return from these commands we might possibly maybe sort of almost kind of have a shot :

http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=getinfo&type=capability

and then this command

http://192.168.54.1/cam.cgi?mode=getinfo&type=allmenu

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From Paul Leeming's Facebook page:

A couple of ETTR examples from a feature film I shot a while ago which is just now hitting the festival circuit, called "The Trade", showing how ETTR allows for great shadow control with no noise.

Knowing what you want to do with your image to achieve the end result when shooting, really helps once you actually get to post ;)

These were shot with the GH4 in Portrait profile (before I ever made the first LUT, but was still shooting ETTR because I knew the benefits for post).

18216447_1686194578061631_8135988966773482055_o.jpg

18208984_1686194624728293_6125999415881311057_o.jpg

And this from the Luminous Landscape "Why are we still using 100 year-old exposure technology?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

The Enable element is purely to tell the smartphone app from the camera which options to show the user so, yes, in virtually all cases it means the camera will only action return commands that match its enabled list. Its use for this purpose is to be able to collect the (usually) type and value parameters for the setsetting function.

As I said earlier in the thread, you should see that that particular command you sent did actually have an effect of sorts in that it will have put the camera into 4k24p mode as unless it is a rate based on a different region (i.e. you'd sent mp4ed_30p_200mbps) then it will accept them but revert to its uppermost setting.

Vlog is unlikely but, again, if you got hold of a rev 2.2 or 2.3 GH4 and found that particular Android version of the ImageApp that enabled Vlog to be activated for 'free' then you could packet capture a session between the two to see exactly what the command was. I don't know anyone with that rev of GH4 but if you do then the version of the ImageApp you'd need is floating around on some dropbox links if you google hard enough for it. But my suspicion is that because the GX80 etc post date Panasonic closing that loophole in both the camera and the ImageApp then it wouldn't work anyway. The long shot would be it possibly working on an LX100 but considering what that does when it receives the Cinelike D command its far from certain it would work properly.

Well keep on working.

G80 accept "mov_25p_200mbps".

camera says OK, menu of video quality became erased (no text info of framerate) and seens to be 1080 due no crop and some type of high biitrate, and records fine... but files can´t be played either on cam and on Pc.

Premiere gives error when importing. 20 seconds file is around 120mb on this mode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

mp4/mov/mp4ed

24p, c24p, 25p, 30p, 50p, 60p

100mbps,200mbps

I tryed almost all of this combinations, and only "mov_25p _200mbps" worked. Recorded files seens to be without metadata or info about resolution/bitrate, but not corrupted at all. Someone knows how to recover them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Grimor said:

mp4/mov/mp4ed

24p, c24p, 25p, 30p, 50p, 60p

100mbps,200mbps

I tryed almost all of this combinations, and only "mov_25p _200mbps" worked. Recorded files seens to be without metadata or info about resolution/bitrate, but not corrupted at all. Someone knows how to recover them?

What capture mode was it in when you sent the command?

On one single occasion I got it into that condition and it did a runaway recording that wrote no file data after I had to stop of with a battery pull.

I've found you can switch it to mov and it will record corrupted files.

All other attempts switch it to 4k24p and the files are recorded with that metadata. Though as I reported earlier with ISO50000 it doesn't register the right value in the metadata

 

I think there might be something in it reacting differently to the recording format command depending on what format it is currently in.

I'd tried both doing it from 1080 and 4k but there might be a combination of the variants that allows it. I can't do much on it right now but it needs a matrix of the settngs with different buttons to quickly but exhaustively test the combinations. 

A

EDIT!!!

FFS I've just spotted you are trying this on a G80 and NOT a GX80

No wonder I didn't get the same behaviour!

OK, same thing applies with the matrix to test the permutations

Closest relative I've got of it is the G7

I'll check it when I have some time 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks again BTM. Your help is really appreciated.

Dont remember with 100%, but very probably my camera was in 4k 100mbps when i send the request.

So your suggestion is to try again with the camera on same format as requested?

Makes sense. I will try, and if i have no luck will upload the corrupt file.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, tonysss said:

My GX80 has better colors than my GH5 :-(

 

Would he still hack? Recording time restriction? GX80 Cine D hack Works super ! Thank you.

Really? Can you shoot a comparison of the two. I think we'd all be interested to see that. But to be honest I'm not surprised.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2017-5-29 at 7:31 PM, BTM_Pix said:

Something unusual happens when you tell it to go into one of the high bitrate 1080p modes in that it switches to 4K24p so its not entirely rejecting it but its also not doing it either.

Same here with almost every "mp4ed" high bitrate request i send. Automatically switches whatever G80 mode to 4k24p.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, tonysss said:

My GX80 has better colors than my GH5 :-(

 

Would he still hack? Recording time restriction? GX80 Cine D hack Works super ! Thank you.

 

GX85 has nice colors for sure. Shot this footage with contrast and saturation at 0, -3sharp, -5noise, in 1080p with automatic shutter and -1/3stop :),

oh, and accidentally with ISO 1250 ;)

 

colors2.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

 

GX85 has nice colors for sure. Shot this footage with contrast and saturation at 0, -3sharp, -5noise, in 1080p with automatic shutter and -1/3stop :),

oh, and accidentally with ISO 1250 ;)

 

colors2.png

That's 1080p? That looks fantastic Marty!!! Is this CineLikeD?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, mercer said:

That's 1080p? That looks fantastic Marty!!! Is this CineLikeD?

I knew for certain that you would rush to contradict me. What's the matter with you? Gotta love the three exclamation points for emphasis. I'm not seeing anything here showing the greater dynamic range possible with Cinelike D. It could just as well have been shot with Standard. Wonder why only one person has shared an actual video up till now...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...