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Andrew Reid

Tips and tricks for new Panasonic GH5 owners

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15 minutes ago, Alexei said:

Yes, but what about the skintones?

Lol

To be honest, I think there is enough there to really get something good. I've been playing with this 10 bit *V-log footage from Emmanuel Pampuri -

 

4K Graded.png

4k Log.png

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39 minutes ago, Sage said:

Lol

To be honest, I think there is enough there to really get something good. I've been playing with this 10 bit *V-log footage from Emmanuel Pampuri -

 

4K Graded.png

4k Log.png

With Panasonic, for good skin tones, there's no need for V-log - just white balance and expose correctly. Done! So many trying to fix in post what could have been obtained much more easily in camera.

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32 minutes ago, Alexei said:

And in my 2 years of owning the GH4 I still can't get the colours I want. That screenshot is a complete opposite of good colour.

Well, I should have said 'post-GH4' Panasonic cameras! 🤓 Agreed, I'm not overly fond of those skin tones either. It may be true that skin tones are subjective, but there are some general guidelines we can all probably agree upon: they shouldn't resemble asparagus, zucchini, kiwi fruit or grapefruit; they should have a different reflectance and texture from a computer monitor, a tweed jacket or a marble counter top; if a face is in the frame, it should be in focus (usually!); exposure should generally not go beyond 70% zebras; at the same time, we are seeing too many photographers afraid to shoot low key faces (James Miller did a wonderful job in his GH5 LUT test); and color should not deviate wildly from the skin tone line on the vector scope. Lastly, I don't want lifelike skin tones: if I'm shooting an Asian, I am free to take out a touch of yellow, as long as I don't make them look Caucasian; likewise, I am free to dial down the pink in the skin tone of a Caucasian if I think it will be more to my liking. But rule number one must always be to get it right in camera, not to hope to fix it in post.

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This is why I don't shoot v log , you get so tweeked up correcting it back to look just normal , them you apply the grade to get the look you want , now you are massively tweeked up , then just say you need to tweek a single colour on a door or wall and next you are now hugely massive tweeked up and you start to break up the image codec ....so I shoot natural profile always , saturation -5 , contrast -5 , and it all works fine for me that way . I always try get it looking good in camera , don't crush the blacks , and I shoot Pannys warmer at 4000k not 3200k , that helps a lot on the skin tones

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Well if anyone thinks you can just go out and buy a video camera that does great skin tones OOC, even Canon, well I have some bad news for you. There IS a reason Adobe Premier, BM Resolve, Apple Final Cut Pro, etc., etc. sell their stuff for hundreds of dollars. If it was easy we would all be famous.  :grin:

Plus there would be no reason for 20 different video camera makers to be in business. They all have their look "Baked In", like them or not.

But yeah Andy Lee looks to be onto something. I have been doing a lot of reading up on my AF-100A and some of the Pro's use that trick with WB also on it. Have not tried it yet, but it does make sense.

But I do admit I use Cinelike D a lot on my AF-100A. I think m4/3 sensor cameras need all the help they can get DR wise.  I think it is their biggest failing now in this day and age. Sucks at Low Light,  well with 0.95 lenses and a Speedbooster that horseshit excuse is past tense. Same with no DoF crap. The old, we need Razor thin DoF when shooting Video, yeah right! Photography, well maybe, Video Not!

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1 hour ago, Alexei said:

And in my 2 years of owning the GH4 I still can't get the colours I want. That screenshot is a complete opposite of good colour.

2 years. Is your screen broken?

:)

39 minutes ago, andy lee said:

This is why I don't shoot v log , you get so tweeked up correcting it back to look just normal , them you apply the grade to get the look you want , now you are massively tweeked up , then just say you need to tweek a single colour on a door or wall and next you are now hugely massive tweeked up and you start to break up the image codec ....so I shoot natural profile always , saturation -5 , contrast -5 , and it all works fine for me that way . I always try get it looking good in camera , don't crush the blacks , and I shoot Pannys warmer at 4000k not 3200k , that helps a lot on the skin tones

What Panasonic should do is implement a 'light' LOG profile like Canon LOG or the Nikon Flat profile which is dead easy to grade... because V-LOG is dangerously flat like S-LOG 3 and mashes too much too close together.

The 'flat' profiles are a compromise between dynamic range and nice colour, easy to grade.

CineLikeD was not it on the GH4... Maybe they have improved it on the GH5? I'll give it a spin.

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Yeah I never do V Log on my Af-100A. You would have to be a Colorist Wiz in Resolve to grade something that flat, and I bet S Log 3 is even worse on a Sony, especially figuring you are using 8bit..

AF-100A is sort of a pretend 10 bit, but it is just too thin to use in daylight scenes. Yeah, if you can control lighting like you can when it is dark, maybe it works.

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1 hour ago, andy lee said:

This is why I don't shoot v log , you get so tweeked up correcting it back to look just normal , them you apply the grade to get the look you want , now you are massively tweeked up , then just say you need to tweek a single colour on a door or wall and next you are now hugely massive tweeked up and you start to break up the image codec ....so I shoot natural profile always , saturation -5 , contrast -5 , and it all works fine for me that way . I always try get it looking good in camera , don't crush the blacks , and I shoot Pannys warmer at 4000k not 3200k , that helps a lot on the skin tones

http://www.xdcam-user.com/2013/03/to-shoot-flat-or-not-to-shoot-flat/

A good article on the pros and cons of shooting log ...

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32 minutes ago, Jn- said:

http://www.xdcam-user.com/2013/03/to-shoot-flat-or-not-to-shoot-flat/

A good article on the pros and cons of shooting log ...

Well that article was written back in 2013. Back when 2/3" ENG cameras were the hot set up. Sort of the same stuff I used back in the day. But Alister does know his stuff trust me.

Red changed all that, and s35 sensors have paved the way for what we now consider "Normal". We are pushing 14bit Raw, 4444, etc. now with 15-16 stops DR, hell Sony has a sort of quasi 3D setup with 2 F65's that used prisms that was 20 stops of DR 4 years ago or more.  One was set to expose for highlights, the other shadows, and merge them in Post.

It is not hard to shoot flat Logs when you have 14bit, 16bit sensors. That is why top end stuff is still 65,000 bucks or more now. But I would still not rule them out on say, the GH5 if you are pretty good at grading. And a person Needs to learn How to do it.

34 minutes ago, jonpais said:

Looking at the vector scope in FCP, the image is a little too pink for my taste too.

Screen Shot 2017-03-25 at 9.09.05 AM.png

58d5a91ce48c3_4KGraded.thumb.png.4095bde2e82c8d47128ab3c9442dcf9a.png

Nice find using the Vector Scope. Plain as the nose on your face Jon.

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1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Well if anyone thinks you can just go out and buy a video camera that does great skin tones OOC, even Canon, well I have some bad news for you. There IS a reason Adobe Premier, BM Resolve, Apple Final Cut Pro, etc., etc. sell their stuff for hundreds of dollars. If it was easy we would all be famous.  :grin:

Plus there would be no reason for 20 different video camera makers to be in business. They all have their look "Baked In", like them or not.

But yeah Andy Lee looks to be onto something. I have been doing a lot of reading up on my AF-100A and some of the Pro's use that trick with WB also on it. Have not tried it yet, but it does make sense. I think it helps get rid of the magenta cast somewhat.

But I do admit I use Cinelike D a lot on my AF-100A. I think m4/3 sensor cameras need all the help they can get DR wise.  I think it is their biggest failing now in this day and age. Sucks at Low Light,  well with 0.95 lenses and a Speedbooster that horseshit excuse is past tense. Same with no DoF crap. The old, we need Razor thin DoF when shooting Video, yeah right! Photography, well maybe, Video Not!

 

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Yeah Red hair, Pink flowers, Pale skin, not a easy grade. I would err that way also I believe. :fearful:

But, ehh, but I think those are Suppose to be White flowers under her chin? So "smack their Pee Pee who ever did that",  is what my post guy used to say to me when I worked in TV, when I ahh, screwed up White Balance, Black Balance. Sort of a "Big Bozo No No" was the Production Manager's line..

That pretty much covered everything you Could screw up on the Bozo part. It was a fun place to work really, because trying to do that stuff everyday, with short deadlines, Everybody screwed up at times.

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