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DriftProductions

It's 2017 still no affordable Full Frame camera with nice 50/60p slowmo image !!!

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So talking Full Frame cameras only or APSC with focal reducer. Been on the lookout for sometime now for an affordable option but no luck.

- Full Frame (or APSC with focal reducer)

- Great 1080 50/60p slowmo

- Focus peaking

 

For my needs i've narrowed it down to the awesome and still very capable Sony A7s however it is still too expensive (over $2000 in Australia dollar currency). In my opinion at it's price point it produces one of the nicest 1080p images and still class leading in light gathering capabilities, the 1080 50/60p in full frame mode is a tad soft but still very good. In APSC mode the 1080 50/60p is even better, very clean, almost perfect!  

 

I'm not fussed at all over specific features like articulating screens, colour science, 4K, EVF, camera menus etc. I honestly couldn't care less about them things in a camera, i'm simply on the hunt for a camera that doesn't throw away vital information from its image when shooting at a higher frame rate like most cameras do. For the work I do I will be shooting 50p exclusively, rarely 25p. 

 

Is there anything affordable out there or on its way to the market?

 

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For some reason most of the 1080p output on DSLR's, Mirrorless FF cameras, even APSC that I have seen that have 4k on them seem to suck, no clue why, but 4k looks great down sampled to 1080p. So slow motion on them is not much to write home to mother about is what I am saying. Not many cameras in that sector have 4k slo mo over 30p.

Seems dedicated Camcorders are the only thing that has great 1080p with slo mo I like. :confused:

So used cameras like a Sony F3 or FS100,  older Panasonic camcorders, are my picks.

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11 minutes ago, Geoff CB said:

Buy a used D750

Hey Geoff, cheers for the suggestion, already considered, but a used D750 nearly costs as much as a new A7s here in Australia. Hoping to find something cheaper, closer to the $1000 price point if a camera even exists at this price... 

32 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

For some reason most of the 1080p output on DSLR's, Mirrorless FF cameras, even APSC that I have seen that have 4k on them seem to suck, no clue why, but 4k looks great down sampled to 1080p. So slow motion on them is not much to write home to mother about is what I am saying. Not many cameras in that sector have 4k slo mo over 30p.

Seems dedicated Camcorders are the only thing that has great 1080p with slo mo I like. :confused:

So used cameras like a Sony F3 or FS100,  older Panasonic camcorders, are my picks.

Agreed about the 1080p output. There's such good value even in the cheapest cam's like the Panasonic G7/G85 packed full of killer features with a beautiful 4K image, and once downscaled to 1080 look amazing... the menus, image stabilisation, focus peaking, ease of use, everything is unreal in these cams. Yet camera companies still can't produce an entry level camera with decent 1080 50/60p slow-mo at a reasonable price point despite most people delivering their content in 1080.

I do wonder how long will it take for full frame cameras to become affordable? I can't do camcorders mate, so might have to hang out for the next release of the A7s iii series and wait for the A7s to drop in price. Thanks

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19 minutes ago, DriftProductions said:

Hey Geoff, cheers for the suggestion, already considered, but a used D750 nearly costs as much as a new A7s here in Australia. Hoping to find something cheaper, closer to the $1000 price point if a camera even exists at this price... 

Agreed about the 1080p output. There's such good value even in the cheapest cam's like the Panasonic G7/G85 packed full of killer features with a beautiful 4K image, and once downscaled to 1080 look amazing... the menus, image stabilisation, focus peaking, ease of use, everything is unreal in these cams. Yet camera companies still can't produce an entry level camera with decent 1080 50/60p slow-mo at a reasonable price point despite most people delivering their content in 1080.

I do wonder how long will it take for full frame cameras to become affordable? I can't do camcorders mate, so might have to hang out for the next release of the A7s iii series and wait for the A7s to drop in price. Thanks

I have been hoping the original A7s drops also, but I gave up holding my breath! It still is, in certain circumstances, ergo low light,  the way to go for the money. Not the best overall for the money I guess, but I would still kill for one LoL. And 1080p looks great on it also.

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2 hours ago, mercer said:

A6500

Hey @mercer the previous A6300 1080p is soft, aliasing and rolling shutter arent great at all either. I see the A6300 as a great 4K and low light performer at a fraction of the price of the A7sii however it's HD is mediocre, not sure if the updated A6500 fixed these issues either... I will have to look into this. 

Either way the A6500 will cost about $1800-$2000 and i'd still need to buy a focal reducer. Too expensive.

Thanks everyone who has made suggestions but looks like original A7s is unbeaten in terms of HD image quality and price for a full frame camera. I'l wait for a price drop  

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I hate to be "the NX1 guy" in this thread ha (I'm actually suprised none of the usual suspects have piped up yet)... But it might be worth looking into the NX1, or the even cheaper NX500 for that matter, both produce lovely, sharp 60p (and gorgeous 120p as well!) with minimal moire/aliasing, crazy low rolling shutter, and decent enough lowlight performance with a fast lens, which you're obviously interested in, i.e. shallow dof, or you wouldn't care so much about sensor size. I have no idea what they'd go for down under, but there are lots of gently used ones around for pennies. Our very own forum member Lucabutera is selling some awesome NX-L speedboosters that he has crafted as well, I have one, which gives the camera about a 1.1x crop. 

Seems like it'd fit your parameters pretty spectacularly. Best of luck! 

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4 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

Cheers @Parker I overlooked the Samsung NX cameras when first released as I was put off with editing H.265 files and never really sussed the specs of these cams out, but will definitely check them out. Thanks mate! 

57 minutes ago, Leon Wu said:

GH5? 4k 60p, downrez ro 1080p should be amazing

 

@Leon Wu I wish I had the cash to throw down on a GH5, footage looks killer so far! 

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The problem seems to be that most can't do full sensor readout at more than 25 fps, so you can either get great 4K footage from downsampling the sensor (A6300/6500), or lineskipped 1080p at up to 4x speed. Seems to be a next generation thing, as the NX1 (ahead of its time in many ways) and GH5 seem to have faster readout, so it is probably the next thing to come to Sony, though APS-C upgrades will probably have to wait till after the next FF releases. Perhaps the A7iii?

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14 hours ago, DriftProductions said:

Is there anything affordable out there

Let me respectfully suggest you're in a "forest for the trees" situation.

If you want super cheap, and are truly strapped for cash, then maybe step back and consider older LUMIX cameras, speedbooster, and a old fast manual prime lens for low-light situations.   I've shot numerous documentaries and projects with a variety of LUMIX M4/3 cams.  As far as I'm concerned, the 60p on these cameras is fine.  I really have an affinity for my GX7, for example.  An effective S35 sensor area is adequate.

I mean, we're talking about $500 to get all three pieces of gear; even less if you buy used.  No, they're not the best low-light cameras @60p, but do-able and that price is ridiculous considering what you can accomplish.

If you don't like the results it's not like you've invested a lot of cash.  With those cameras, buy used and then sell used and you won't lose any money regardless.

Ultimately it'll come down to your abilities with whatever gear is in hand.  Certainly don't assume you are going to solve the majority of various production problems just because you own a camera that's 2 stops faster than another one.  I mean, low-light-full-frame cameras are fun and all, (I do like them too) but work is work, your budget is tight, and cameras are only a small fraction of the whole process.

All that said: NX1 and X-T20 tick boxes what you want, just at a higher price.

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14 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

For some reason most of the 1080p output on DSLR's, Mirrorless FF cameras, even APSC that I have seen that have 4k on them seem to suck, no clue why, but 4k looks great down sampled to 1080p. So slow motion on them is not much to write home to mother about is what I am saying. Not many cameras in that sector have 4k slo mo over 30p.

Seems dedicated Camcorders are the only thing that has great 1080p with slo mo I like. :confused:

So used cameras like a Sony F3 or FS100,  older Panasonic camcorders, are my picks.

True, my AF100 is quite old, but as great in camera 60 fps slow motion (recorded to 24 fps, so you don't have to fiddle with speed on your editor of choice).

The gh4 is 1080p 60 fps (and more) and is quite affordable now :)

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Okay, this one doesn't fit your speedbooster to full frame criteria, but if I was on a budget and looking for good 60p I would just go with the Nikon D5500 or 5600. The 7200 offers zebras and metering with ai/ai-s lenses but the 60p has an added crop, so the D5500 or 5600 is probably a better fit. The Flat profile is amazing and APS-C 60p may hold you over until the A7Siii arrives. Another option would be a D500... 4K with a crop but 1080p 50/60p with APS-C and EIS. It seems to be a beast of a camera. 

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6 hours ago, fuzzynormal said:

Let me respectfully suggest you're in a "forest for the trees" situation.

If you want super cheap, and are truly strapped for cash, then maybe step back and consider older LUMIX cameras, speedbooster, and a old fast manual prime lens for low-light situations.   I've shot numerous documentaries and projects with a variety of LUMIX M4/3 cams.  As far as I'm concerned, the 60p on these cameras is fine.  I really have an affinity for my GX7, for example.  An effective S35 sensor area is adequate.

I mean, we're talking about $500 to get all three pieces of gear; even less if you buy used.  No, they're not the best low-light cameras @60p, but do-able and that price is ridiculous considering what you can accomplish.

If you don't like the results it's not like you've invested a lot of cash.  With those cameras, buy used and then sell used and you won't lose any money regardless.

Ultimately it'll come down to your abilities with whatever gear is in hand.  Certainly don't assume you are going to solve the majority of various production problems just because you own a camera that's 2 stops faster than another one.  I mean, low-light-full-frame cameras are fun and all, (I do like them too) but work is work, your budget is tight, and cameras are only a small fraction of the whole process.

All that said: NX1 and X-T20 tick boxes what you want, just at a higher price.

Thanks @fuzzynormal great advice mate cheers. I agree the gear isn't always important, it's what you do with what you have. I really dig the LUMIX M4/3 cams, the GX7 is a beast of a little camera. I owned a G7 with speedbooster and it got some awesome results, achieved even better results with the G85, both cheap cams and clients have been really satisfied with the results. That said however the super 35mm look is perfect for commercial/corporate shoots but I want a full frame for weddings/fashion etc. 

I'm gonna wait it out and keep saving the pennies for an A7s, but plenty great suggestions from everyone so in the meantime I will keep an eye out for some used bargains for sure! Cheers mate

5 hours ago, mercer said:

Okay, this one doesn't fit your speedbooster to full frame criteria, but if I was on a budget and looking for good 60p I would just go with the Nikon D5500 or 5600. The 7200 offers zebras and metering with ai/ai-s lenses but the 60p has an added crop, so the D5500 or 5600 is probably a better fit. The Flat profile is amazing and APS-C 60p may hold you over until the A7Siii arrives. Another option would be a D500... 4K with a crop but 1080p 50/60p with APS-C and EIS. It seems to be a beast of a camera. 

Hey @mercer cheers mate will check these option out too :glasses:

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Keep your eye on Ebay.

Sometimes, especially at odd times like say a Friday after a Thursday holiday or other non normal times you might find a used A7s selling to Australia only with little competition.

I have had mine for a couple of years now but that is how I got mine.     It was actually sealed in box but was technically sold second hand and for a fair bit less than I otherwise would have had to pay.

I also have a GX7 that I really like but it has a few too many limitations for video for me.      Maximum ISO of 3200 for video and no mic or headphone jack being the biggest.

That said, I don't do a lot of video beyond recording the occasional song at rock/blues gigs and I am more often than not over ISO 3200 (sometimes way over) so the GX7 will never work for me for that nine times out of ten.

A7s is not the camera for everyone but I think it is worth every cent they go for.

EDIT    A quick check of Ebay Australia  sold listings has several first version A7s cameras having gone in the range of $1572 including postage to around 2100 or so but many of the higher priced ones have extras with them.     Plenty in the range 16-1800 range.    Some have lots of bids, some only two or three.

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