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Best 120p + camera advice


wolf33d

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I am out in Patagonia soon for trekking. 

I am gonna have a DJI Mavic for aerials, Nikon body (D7200, D5500 or D810) for timelapses and stills, and I need a video body. 

I might take a Crane gimbal with me (2 weeks of trekking, the weight will kill me......)

What is the best 120p camera: a7sII / RX100 V / A6500, or other? 

Criteria: 

1 - good clean 120p

2 - good 4K (for this I know a7sII>a6k5>rx100) 

3 - good AF in video (a6k5>rx100V>a7sII) 

4 - decent bokeh ( a7sII>a6k5>rx100) 

Ideally I would have one camera for stills + video but the Nikon bodies are not up to the game. The A7R II does not have slowmo, and the A7SII is not good enough for zooming in timelapses. A6500 dynamic range is not good enough for my landscape work. 

Amazing that yet no FF camera with DR > 14 stops with slowmo and 4K exists. Probably A7RIII or A7III ....
I have taught about a 1DXII but I see major problems: file size in 4K, while hiking no computer with me. Overall price. Fact that you get worst still IQ than a D5500 for ten times the price (FOR MY USE, see gallery = I dont care about ISO, I need DR). Otherwise, FF body, 4K60p, 120p, amazing AF.... great stuff. 

My photos to give you an idea : https://500px.com/loup_f

My latest video to give you my style and why I want slowmo (you can notice I had A7RII + RX100 combo here. Did not like the A7RII much and its DR is similar to D5500 for 6 times the price):

https://vimeo.com/165075366

Thank you

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18 minutes ago, wolf33d said:


I have taught about a 1DXII but I see major problems: file size in 4K, while hiking no computer with me. Overall price. Fact that you get worst still IQ than a D5500 for ten times the price (FOR MY USE, see gallery = I dont care about ISO, I need DR). Otherwise, FF body, 4K60p, 120p, amazing AF.... great stuff. 

EV is like 0.5 of a stop better at ISO 100, that's negligible. It trumps D5500 in everything else and that's what you pay for. The best balanced body on the market so you don't have to take 5 different cameras fromy sony and nikon as you've just realized yourself ;). Sensors are similar nowadays from entry level to pro level in FF category. File size might be a problem but that's easy to overcome by buying more cards ;). 

btw. nice photos :)

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10 minutes ago, tomekk said:

EV is like 0.5 of a stop better at ISO 100, that's negligible. It trumps D5500 in everything else and that's what you pay for. The best balanced body on the market so you don't have to take 5 different cameras fromy sony and nikon as you've just realized yourself ;). Sensors are similar nowadays from entry level to pro level in FF category. File size might be a problem but that's easy to overcome by buying more cards ;). 

btw. nice photos :)

Thanks. 
Real world difference is huge. DR test with shadow lift : I let you guess which is 1dx2 and which is D810. 

Screen Shot 2017-01-08 at 01.04.02.png

I know the 1DXII is a good camera I am not saying otherwise. Just that for the price and considering I have no use of the high ISO, good AF in stills and tank body, it's a shame. 
I am not ready to pay 6K on a body where I can't play with DR beautifully like I do it on Nikons. 

It is easy to overcome with exposure blending. But I do timelapses and generally extract one RAW from it so I cant do multiple exposure shooting and therefore need max DR possible. As you can see I spend time on my post prod on images on photoshop and I have been frustrated to death with how noisy and not clean Canon images get when I push them. As you can see with Nikon bodies my result are clean. 

 

So I am more leaning towards a 2 body solution (ideally D810 + GH5) but in this scenario D5500 (for weight in hiking) + something. 
Open to any suggestion but would like to know the cleanest 120p between the bodies I mentioned and an idea of the difference. 

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This is a chart so it's not a real world scenario and it's one stop of difference anyway.  Get a file from a new sensor and play with it yourself. Before 1dx ii couple stops of difference was obviously noticeable in real world but now you have to check for yourself. 

It's just that according to your 4 main points from the first post it ticks all the boxes. You didn't even list: "dynamic range must at least much Nikon's sensor" which now seems like a major one and the rest doesn't matter ;). In that case, 1dx II is obviously not good.

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8 minutes ago, Marco Tecno said:

Nx1 is very good at 120fps.

To be 100% correct on this one, it has aliasing in 120fps and if you go over ISO200, the image becomes soft (due to built in noise reduction).

Shooting shallow DOF and with sufficient light gives you an image that is hard to beat for the price thought.

 

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I have seen your video before. I really liked it, and I believe NX could be right for you style.

NX1 is great with the 16-50S 2-2.8f, I have great results with Ronin AF with the 16-50pz lens (the cheap kit one), I haven't use the S for gimbal yet, but I am expecting much better AF.

28megapixls BSI, it also has DIS+dual IS with the lens, but it works great ONLY with very limited action, too much things going on, and behaves very erratically;

very small H265 files (you mentioned that you are not going to have any hard drives with you, a few 64GB cards can last for the whole trip).

Time lapses, hacked/moded firmware with extra features.

NO crop in any mode (unlike other APS-C and smaller sensored cameras), and best slow motion for any cheap camera at the moment.

Great EVF, OLED screen, ok audio pre amps (better than Canon at least). 

No overheating problems, ever.

You can add a NX500 for a back up or B camera, with the amazing 10mm 3.5f fish eye is a super small combo for some "wow" shots also.

In DxO measurements NX500 is at the top with 7200 as the best ASP-C sensors.

With these 2 cameras, and a few lenses you are set. I don't know what lenses you need, but you can have 10-200mm (307mm equiv) APS-C native lenses options.

10mm 3.5f fish eye, 12-24 4-5.6f, 16-50 2-2.8f, 16-50pz 3.5-5.6f, 18-55 3.5-5.6f, 20-50 3.5-5.6,  pancakes { 16mm 2.4f/ 20mm 2.8f/ 30mm 2f/ 45 1.8f}, 60 2.8f macro, 85 1.4f, 50-150 2.8f, 50-200 4-5.6f  

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Thanks guys. 

Unfortunately I have to buy (have credits) B&H so no NX1. On top of it I need a 10mm non fisheye lens for landscapes anyway. 

@bigfoot  great advice for the grad ND filter. That sounds like the only solution for getting a bit more DR during timelapsing. Cause I have checked and the A6500 is clearly way noisier than the D7200 when lifting shadows.

I still do not know which is better in 120p : A7sII / A6500 / RX100 V. @Andrew Reid you used A6300 and RX100 IV, which one does best 120p? 

I am down to Nikon body + RX100 V or just A6500. 

Nikon body + RX100 V advantages: better DR which I value a lot for stills. RX100 lighter on the Gimbal. No need for changing settings between video and Photo cause dedicated camera. When the Nikon is on tripod for a 1h timelapse I can pass time by doing shots with the RX100 with the nice sunset light (having only A6500 makes it impossible, note that I also have to fly the drone at this time). RX100 stays on gimbal 100% time. No need to rebalance or mount it.

A6500 advantages : overall slightly lighter package, better video than RX100 (in 120p ?) 

Another solution is Nikon body + A6500 or A7SII. Heavier but best quality in everything. 

 

 

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ohhh and .. bring 2 body for sure! Bring your favorite nikon and the a6500 working together. Master each one and use them for specific usage. You will know how much shadow you can lift for each one and how much highlight you can protect.

 

Nikon for Sunset/sunrise lapse and everything under 640iso 

Sony for 4k/120fps gimbal/tripod and milky way/moonlight timelapse 

Drone for BTS and few insert shots 

 

And a sony E to F-mount, same mount - same lenses 

 

I've been doing the Nd grad trick for timelapse and landscape since I started doing landscape photography maybe 4 years ago. With the A7s or even my "old" canon 6d, I don't have problem to squeeze the full spectrum of raw data of those camera and they aren't as good as nikon for DR. I haven't tested the a6500 yet but it shouldn't be a big concern. 

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11 minutes ago, bigfoot said:

 

 

I've been doing the Nd grad trick for timelapse and landscape since I started doing landscape photography maybe 4 years ago. With the A7s or even my "old" canon 6d, I don't have problem to squeeze the full spectrum of raw data of those camera and they aren't as good as nikon for DR. I haven't tested the a6500 yet but it shouldn't be a big concern. 

If the shooting is under ISO 800 I would agree.     I just have a feeling that ISOs would rise quickly in the evening in a place like Patagonia and the A7s just in terms of DR for RAW stills doesn't drop away as quickly as the Nikon and Sony APSC cameras.    The 6D is another that I would prefer in a place like that over the smaller sensor cameras.     D810 would be by far the best for daytime stills but would be too heavy for me (by limiting other things) and it also drops away as the ISO rises.

It just means you can shoot for longer with a camera like the A7s depending what your DR requirements are.    

Really even the 6D with 11 stops at ISO 100 is good enough for day time use I would think.     I think it matters more if a camera holds its DR longer (unless ONLY shooting at base or near base ISO).

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Base ISO is important for me. I won't do night shooting or very little because the camps wont be in the good spots, and because weather is so shitty that it often can rain in night even if forecast say otherwise (so can't let camera outside the tent).

Also to make dynamic timelapses I need to zoom in the image a lot so no A7SII for timelapse. 

I had a 5D3 for a year which I hated. Couple images in my gallery (see first post) with it. DR was so horrible that it was always a pain to edit dramatic landscapes. D5200 400$ camera has been a relief vs 5D3.  Understand that I don't care much of DR for the timelapse itself. A 6D is fine for a timelapse. I care of DR for the single RAW that I will extract from it, work 2 hours on photoshop to get a nice image and then sell. 

for weight :

d810 is 880g, d7200 is 680g and d5500 is 450g. But with d810 you have a 1000g lens (14-24). An APSC tokina 11-20mm 2.8 is 550g. Overall 700g gain with D7200 and almost a kilo with D5500. When I know I spend 200$ more in each hiking piece of gear to win 100g over other gear...

Worst than this the gimbal is 1kg. But I don't see myself without a gimbal anymore it gives so nice dynamic footages. Since I won't have many subjects except my buddy running in the rocks, having the gimbal allows for more dramatic shots. Statics shots in mountain are boring. 

The best weight package overall would be :

D5500 for timelapses on my carbon tripod

RX100v on gimbal for all videos with 80% 120p and 20% 4K 

Other option is A6500 instead of RX100 and or D810 instead of D5500. 

Main advantage of A6500 would be Deepth of field shots vs the RX100. But then I would need a special lens like a 35mm 1.8. But then why not use the Nikon body for that.. So I can let's say bring a 35mm 1.8 for the Nikon and shoot nice 1080p60p with it on the Nikon for potential DoF shots. 

 

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