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Andrew Reid

Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

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9 hours ago, Skip77 said:

Give your take on the last video I posted, the one that you thought was a photo and not from video? Again, if the Gh5s can go head to head with the P4K then based on my comparison of the Z6 to the FS7, and C200, I know it will stack up well against the P4K. 

You said the Z6 can't come close to the P4k in video? Why not? Give us you great take based on my footage and your knowledge. I also said Z6 12 bit Raw against the P4K. 

I've hired old school guys like you that think the 10 year old cam corder is still relevant and that you can't bridge the gap between cine cameras and mirrorless cameras. 

I know for a fact that the Z6 compares well next to the C200 because we shot with both at the same location. 

Because old guys can make shit happen even with old stuff. It is not cameras, it is skill. You act like they just F ing invented video cameras last week. ENG cameras, even old ass ENG cameras All shoot 12 or 14bit 4.4.4. Even a old Sony F3 can do that with the upgrade in it. That is pure color.

You keep talking 12 bit Raw. It is not even out yet in the Z6, Z7. bRaw Is 12 bit already And they are 10 bit in regular old ProRes. You can't do 10 bit or even Log without a Recorder on the Nikons. BMD cameras just have Way better CS than any Nikon has out of the box for video. They make Cine cameras, not Hybrids. 

And Nobody in their right mind is going to use a Z6 as a B cam to a C200 unless it is some broke ass people, get real. That is Hillbilly shit. You might as well just whip out your Smartphone, or run down and get a EOS T2i for 150 bucks from a Pawn Shop that would match better.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

Because old guys can make shit happen even with old stuff. It is not cameras, it is skill. You act like they just F ing invented video cameras last week. ENG cameras, even old ass ENG cameras All shoot 12 or 14bit 4.4.4. Even a old Sony F3 can do that with the upgrade in it. That is pure color.

You keep talking 12 bit Raw. It is not even out yet in the Z6, Z7. bRaw Is 12 bit already And they are 10 bit in regular old ProRes. You can't do 10 bit or even Log without a Recorder on the Nikons. BMD cameras just have Way better CS than any Nikon has out of the box for video. They make Cine cameras, not Hybrids. 

And Nobody in their right mind is going to use a Z6 as a B cam to a C200 unless it is some broke ass people, get real. That is Hillbilly shit. You might as well just whip out your Smartphone, or run down and get a EOS T2i for 150 bucks from a Pawn Shop that would match better.

You also can't talk trash about a video still that you called out to be a photo taken from the camera.

All I know is 12-bit Raw is coming for the Z6 and when it does I'll be posting in the Raw camera section. At that point no more Gh5 talk. Lol.

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18 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Good, and MAYBE you can post it in the Nikon Z6 forum. I have never used a JPEG as frame grab, but then you Are different I guess.

Digital images are JPEG, PNG or GIF's in the digital world. Mac screen captures are PNG and a JPEG from Nikon cameras will have metadata showing the camera, date, etc.

I'm trying to see your point and that it wasn't based on quality of the JPEG vs expected video quality.  FCPX lets you save out an image from the timeline.  And I'm sure Resolve let's you do the same. 

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16 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

 It is not even half as good as the footage I showed from the OG BMPCC with a piss ass little s16mm sensor.

One of the most beautiful and skillful cinematography I saw in last 10 years belongs to "Lore" by Cate Shortland director and Adam Arkapaw as dop... they used exclusively s16 in it. I'd dare to recommend that movie to everybody who yet didn't see it - at least just to take one breath relaxation/inspiration from hard battle of sensor's size/capability fascination.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1996310/

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33 minutes ago, anonim said:

One of the most beautiful and skillful cinematography I saw in last 10 years belongs to "Lore" by Cate Shortland director and Adam Arkapaw as dop... they used exclusively s16 in it. I'd dare to recommend that movie to everybody who yet doesn't see it - at least just to take one breath relaxation/inspiration from hard battle of sensor's size/capability fascination.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1996310/

There are many things that really define what a camera setup is capable of..   DR, 8/10/12bit, lenses, filters, etc, but sensor size isn't one of them. :) 

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1 hour ago, kye said:

There are many things that really define what a camera setup is capable of..   DR, 8/10/12bit, lenses, filters, etc, but sensor size isn't one of them. :) 

Yes, words saying that size actually doesn't matter but DR consoled me through all my life :)

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I'm way late to the party, but just ordered the GH5! 

I have no illusions that it'll be some supremely groundbreaking image, but I do think it'll be the funnest and easiest camera I've ever used to just pick up and shoot stuff with.

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1 hour ago, dbp said:

I'm way late to the party, but just ordered the GH5! 

I have no illusions that it'll be some supremely groundbreaking image, but I do think it'll be the funnest and easiest camera I've ever used to just pick up and shoot stuff with.

It has a great image btw. Pretty much no moire or aliasing which can't be said for a lot of more expensive cameras. Also internal 10 bit 422 

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7 hours ago, dbp said:

I'm way late to the party, but just ordered the GH5! 

I have no illusions that it'll be some supremely groundbreaking image, but I do think it'll be the funnest and easiest camera I've ever used to just pick up and shoot stuff with.

Welcome.  Heaps of knowledge here so post questions / comments.  

What projects are you planning on using it for?  What lenses / accessories will you use with it?

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11 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

It has a great image btw. Pretty much no moire or aliasing which can't be said for a lot of more expensive cameras. Also internal 10 bit 422 

Oh yes, I definitely don't want to imply that it's bad. Just that I know in the eternal chase for the absolute best IQ, it might not be top of the heap anymore. But still very good.

6 hours ago, kye said:

Welcome.  Heaps of knowledge here so post questions / comments.  

What projects are you planning on using it for?  What lenses / accessories will you use with it?

I'm living in DC now, just trying to get established, so probably lots of corporate / live event work. Maaaaaaaaaybe weddings. Build that stuff up to make money, and then slowly work into some more artsy fun stuff like music videos / short films on the side. 

But I gotta find the money first.

For lenses, I have the Rokinon 12 f2, Panasonic 20 f1.7, Nikon 50 1.8, Sigma 60 f2.8. 

Zhiyun Crane v2 for a gimbal. Some LED lights (2xAputure 672s) and a few others.

Slowly gonna build my kit up. I desperately need a better tripod, but after that it'll probably be lenses. Definitely the 42.5 f1.7 at some point, for talking heads. Then some kinda zoom for live events. I know everyone loves the Sigma 18-35, but I feel like something longer is more valuable in a zoom. The Sigma 50-100 or Panasonic 35-100, something like that.

Oh, and I ordered V-log with it. Excited to play with that.

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2 hours ago, dbp said:

I'm living in DC now, just trying to get established, so probably lots of corporate / live event work. Maaaaaaaaaybe weddings. Build that stuff up to make money, and then slowly work into some more artsy fun stuff like music videos / short films on the side. 

But I gotta find the money first.

For lenses, I have the Rokinon 12 f2, Panasonic 20 f1.7, Nikon 50 1.8, Sigma 60 f2.8. 

Zhiyun Crane v2 for a gimbal. Some LED lights (2xAputure 672s) and a few others.

Slowly gonna build my kit up. I desperately need a better tripod, but after that it'll probably be lenses. Definitely the 42.5 f1.7 at some point, for talking heads. Then some kinda zoom for live events. I know everyone loves the Sigma 18-35, but I feel like something longer is more valuable in a zoom. The Sigma 50-100 or Panasonic 35-100, something like that.

Oh, and I ordered V-log with it. Excited to play with that.

It's a workhorse, so putting it to work to earn it's keep is the right strategy :)

I don't really know what lenses are good for corporate, but your existing lineup seems pretty good.  The 42.5/1.7 is pretty close to 50/1.8 so maybe something closer to 35mm might be more useful?  Slightly cropping in-post is normally fine even if you're delivering 4K so you can always go a little tighter than the lens if you need to.

The 18-35 is a beautiful lens, but it's pretty heavy in comparison to primes.  The 12-35/2.8 has a great reputation and a bit more zoom range.  If you can go slower than 2.8 then there are longer zooms than that, although be aware that 12-35/2.8 on MFT is the same as 24-70/5.6 on FF, so it's not the same as a 24-70/2.8, or even the 24-70/4.

I don't have the v-log but shoot HLG instead, but I understand that both do a good job and it's more about your post-production workflow and if you have LUTs already etc.

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12 minutes ago, kye said:

It's a workhorse, so putting it to work to earn it's keep is the right strategy :)

I don't really know what lenses are good for corporate, but your existing lineup seems pretty good.  The 42.5/1.7 is pretty close to 50/1.8 so maybe something closer to 35mm might be more useful?  Slightly cropping in-post is normally fine even if you're delivering 4K so you can always go a little tighter than the lens if you need to.

The 18-35 is a beautiful lens, but it's pretty heavy in comparison to primes.  The 12-35/2.8 has a great reputation and a bit more zoom range.  If you can go slower than 2.8 then there are longer zooms than that, although be aware that 12-35/2.8 on MFT is the same as 24-70/5.6 on FF, so it's not the same as a 24-70/2.8, or even the 24-70/4.

I don't have the v-log but shoot HLG instead, but I understand that both do a good job and it's more about your post-production workflow and if you have LUTs already etc.

The 50 1.8 is beautiful in a lot of ways, but it has.....character, I guess you could say, when it's wide open. Noticeably soft. Has a weird blooming effect in the highlights. I honestly like it quite a bit for wedding B-roll, but I've avoided it for talking heads. So it's effectively a 50 f2.8 for interviews. That's why I have my eye on the 42.5 f1.7. I know that will look good wide open.

I love M43 in general, but the zooms are the only downfall. I reaaaaaaaaaally wish there some in the 1.7 or even 2.0 range.  2.8 is rough in most indoors venues with the GH series (excluding GH5s). The Sigma's are big and clunky.  Trade-offs one way or another! Just depends on what kind of work I do. I only have interest in the zooms if I end up doing lots of live-event stuff.

 

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8 hours ago, dbp said:

The 50 1.8 is beautiful in a lot of ways, but it has.....character, I guess you could say, when it's wide open. Noticeably soft. Has a weird blooming effect in the highlights. I honestly like it quite a bit for wedding B-roll, but I've avoided it for talking heads. So it's effectively a 50 f2.8 for interviews. That's why I have my eye on the 42.5 f1.7. I know that will look good wide open.

I love M43 in general, but the zooms are the only downfall. I reaaaaaaaaaally wish there some in the 1.7 or even 2.0 range.  2.8 is rough in most indoors venues with the GH series (excluding GH5s). The Sigma's are big and clunky.  Trade-offs one way or another! Just depends on what kind of work I do. I only have interest in the zooms if I end up doing lots of live-event stuff.

Ah, yes, vintage lenses are a different aesthetic.  It's common for pros to have two sets of lenses, one vintage and one modern, although if you're shooting higher budget cine stuff then you often hire the modern ones (CP.2 etc) and keep the vintage set for yourself for low budget or personal projects (and maybe to hire out).  It's about choosing which aesthetic suits the project.

There's a new panasonic 10-25mm f1.7 in the works if that helps.  But I fully agree with you, FF has the 2.8 holy trinity, APSC has the Sigma 1.8 pair, and MFT has ......  nothing.  The holy trinity for MFT would be 8-12/1.4 + 12-35/1.4 + 35-100/1.4 and theres nothing even close.  In live event stuff you may be torn between having a zoom with a wider range vs faster aperture.

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9 minutes ago, kye said:

Ah, yes, vintage lenses are a different aesthetic.  It's common for pros to have two sets of lenses, one vintage and one modern, although if you're shooting higher budget cine stuff then you often hire the modern ones (CP.2 etc) and keep the vintage set for yourself for low budget or personal projects (and maybe to hire out).  It's about choosing which aesthetic suits the project.

There's a new panasonic 10-25mm f1.7 in the works if that helps.  But I fully agree with you, FF has the 2.8 holy trinity, APSC has the Sigma 1.8 pair, and MFT has ......  nothing.  The holy trinity for MFT would be 8-12/1.4 + 12-35/1.4 + 35-100/1.4 and theres nothing even close.  In live event stuff you may be torn between having a zoom with a wider range vs faster aperture.

Some vintage glass is really nice wide open but most when stopped down a notch perform really well. For me the law of diminishing returns comes into play when comparing with higher end glass. Depends on the specific lens in question of course. 

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1 hour ago, kye said:

Ah, yes, vintage lenses are a different aesthetic.  It's common for pros to have two sets of lenses, one vintage and one modern, although if you're shooting higher budget cine stuff then you often hire the modern ones (CP.2 etc) and keep the vintage set for yourself for low budget or personal projects (and maybe to hire out).  It's about choosing which aesthetic suits the project.

There's a new panasonic 10-25mm f1.7 in the works if that helps.  But I fully agree with you, FF has the 2.8 holy trinity, APSC has the Sigma 1.8 pair, and MFT has ......  nothing.  The holy trinity for MFT would be 8-12/1.4 + 12-35/1.4 + 35-100/1.4 and theres nothing even close.  In live event stuff you may be torn between having a zoom with a wider range vs faster aperture.

Totally. I suppose it's not a matter of better, but just different. I'll probably pick up a few more cheap Nikon AI primes, as I like the aesthetic alot, and they'll work well with the IBIS.

I did look at the 10-25. Figured it would cost an arm and a leg, and.........yep! $2500. Yikes, no thanks. Maybe a FF lens that could live on in other bodies, but I just feel like I might as well speedbooster and Sigma 18-35 at that point. 

Also, I don't know if this is just me, but I don't value a zoom on the wide end nearly as much. In those situations, I'm happy to either swap or zoom with my feet. It's the long end that I need to adjust quickly. Getting caught on a tight prime at a live event when you really need something wider is a bad place to be.

One thing I'm curious about is V-log at 4K / 60p.  I've heard horror stories with 8bit vlog but I'm hoping maybe it's not as bad as everyone says? 

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1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Some vintage glass is really nice wide open but most when stopped down a notch perform really well. For me the law of diminishing returns comes into play when comparing with higher end glass. Depends on the specific lens in question of course. 

It does.

I've found there to be three different types of lenses:

  • Fast ones that are soft wide-open but sharpen up stopped down two stops
  • Slow ones that are sharp wide-open (are probably just the previous ones without the wider aperture adjustment)
  • Fast ones that are sharp wide-open and cost an arm and a leg!

I have a set of the first ones (fast/soft wide-open) and in a sense you get two aesthetics in one.  You can always apply a slight blur in post to make the narrower aperture settings look soft like the wide-open end, and if you only have an odd shot wide-open here or there you can often sharpen them up so that they don't stand out in a sequence.

15 minutes ago, dbp said:

Totally. I suppose it's not a matter of better, but just different. I'll probably pick up a few more cheap Nikon AI primes, as I like the aesthetic alot, and they'll work well with the IBIS.

I did look at the 10-25. Figured it would cost an arm and a leg, and.........yep! $2500. Yikes, no thanks. Maybe a FF lens that could live on in other bodies, but I just feel like I might as well speedbooster and Sigma 18-35 at that point. 

Also, I don't know if this is just me, but I don't value a zoom on the wide end nearly as much. In those situations, I'm happy to either swap or zoom with my feet. It's the long end that I need to adjust quickly. Getting caught on a tight prime at a live event when you really need something wider is a bad place to be.

One thing I'm curious about is V-log at 4K / 60p.  I've heard horror stories with 8bit vlog but I'm hoping maybe it's not as bad as everyone says? 

Yeah, just different.  I really like the IBIS for being able to stabilise manual primes, and that's one of the main reasons I bought my GH5 mid-last year.  

Yes, for $2.5k for a lens, you're almost better off buying two primes and a second GH5 and just carrying two setups :) 

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If you guys are into manual focus primes, I'm really impressed by the Meike 25mm t2.2, and I'd imagine their new 16mm is just as good.  It's very well built, incredibly sharp, and has a beautiful out of focus rendition.  Having always wanted to try some Veydra primes, I couldn't resist the chance to test out the Meike for the $330 price tag. 

If you look at Veydra's performance in some MTF tests from Lens Rentals, they put some Zeiss CP.2s to shame.  Even at T2.2 they look to just edge out the best Pany-Leica and Olympus pro glass stopped down to F 2.8.

Some links to compare MTF tests:

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2018/03/veydra-cine-mini-prime-mtf-optical-bench-tests/

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2018/03/finally-some-more-m43-mtf-testing-are-the-40s-fabulous/

I'm currently in the post hell of a large project I'm wrapping, and will not get a chance to really test the lens out for a while, but I've been towing my GH5 with the Meike around and shooting a few random things when I get a moment.   Here's a few frame grabs from Resolve.  The horse was shot around T4-5.6.  The others were wide open.  Everything was shot in V-log with a quickie color grade so I could see what I was looking at.  No sharpening in camera or post.

Based on how happy I am with the Meike, I might end up collecting a few of these if Veydra doesn't make a return to producing lenses.

Meike_25mm_1.19.1.png

Meike_25mm_1.15.1.png

Meike_25mm_1.26.1.png

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The 12-100mm 4f Olympus is an amazing do it all run n gun zoom.

Yes, it is 4f, but that keeps its size and weight at minimum, while even with the GH5 (not a great low light camera) can be - and it is - used in most instances.

For a GH5S/P4K/Z camera that can go easily up to 3200-6400ISO this lens is all you need. And the subject separation is there is you zoom in a bit. Nothing like a good tele end for walking heads and whatnot.

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