Jump to content
Andrew Reid

Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

Recommended Posts

EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
On 8/29/2018 at 7:18 AM, jonpais said:

Here’s a beta test of Leeming LUT One v801. It has greater dynamic range than earlier versions.

 

Color looks good if that's what you're skin looks like. Most older guys don't have that much pink going on. Did you sharpen the footage or is that the GH5 magic?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/8/2018 at 12:06 PM, webrunner5 said:

Really other than the new PK4, none of the new FF cameras, and the Fuji have added Anything to talk about over what a GH5 has had 2 years ago. And most of them have a Hell of a lot less features. And now you can buy a used GH5 cheaper than any of the new cameras, even the PF4. Interesting. We really haven't gained crap other than some pretty nice options on the PK4, Raw in particular, the the C port, and the mini XLR is nice also. Oh and the menus are damn nice also on the screen.

Other than the Fuji X-T3 for photos I don't see hardly Any edge for film making on the Canon, or Nikon, Fuji offerings over the GH5, GH5s.

I changed my mind about the GH5 by revisiting footage again. In the right hands it does very well. 

My main issues are:

- It adds sharpness to the image

- Color is still off most of the time and this also has to do with how it handles mid shadow skin areas. It tends to get dirty in these areas and this can be a problem

- The m4/3 field of view or what it presents to us is always wide open wide shots, and this creates the same as same as framing for GH5 owners. It must be impossible to get a mid cowboys shot with that camera.

- The GH5 shares technology came from the GH4 and G7 and some of the same issues carried over. I used the own the G7 and it was great camera for the price. 

- Again color is off on this camera and it's almost a color shift that happens. 

- Shadow and low light areas. It's know that the Gh5 is not great in low light and don't mention the speed booster and toaster that can fix this issue. The tech guys and guys that try and break this down scientifically miss the point. If you have the darkest value before crushed blacks that show noise and unresolved detail (detail that the camera doesn't show or can't show but these areas are not just one value) then that's an issue you can't just blame on low light. Almost every clip will have areas like this and it depends if it's on the wall in the shadows or the shadow side of a persons long hair. Most of the time the Gh5 almost fills in these areas with darker shadow then what we see. It almost or does have less range in the mid to darker values. Instead of 7 the GH5 gives us 4 values on the grey scale. 

- Hybrid cameras should have good video and photo abilities because they share the same sensor and processor. We all know the GH5 doesn't do photo's well and there's a reason for that. The Lumix S1 and S1R seems to have pushed photo and video to the next level. So in the same family you have the Gh5 and S1 it's clear from the S1 how far back the GH5 is in image quality. The C100 has atone of cine feature and controls but no one is replacing the GH5 with the C200.

8 minutes ago, AlexTrinder96 said:

He's no longer active on this forum...

Why not? He seemed to bring a lot to the discussion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Skip77 said:

I changed my mind about the GH5 by revisiting footage again. In the right hands it does very well. 

My main issues are:

- It adds sharpness to the image

- Color is still off most of the time and this also has to do with how it handles mid shadow skin areas. It tends to get dirty in these areas and this can be a problem

- The m4/3 field of view or what it presents to us is always wide open wide shots, and this creates the same as same as framing for GH5 owners. It must be impossible to get a mid cowboys shot with that camera.

- The GH5 shares technology came from the GH4 and G7 and some of the same issues carried over. I used the own the G7 and it was great camera for the price. 

- Again color is off on this camera and it's almost a color shift that happens. 

- Shadow and low light areas. It's know that the Gh5 is not great in low light and don't mention the speed booster and toaster that can fix this issue. The tech guys and guys that try and break this down scientifically miss the point. If you have the darkest value before crushed blacks that show noise and unresolved detail (detail that the camera doesn't show or can't show but these areas are not just one value) then that's an issue you can't just blame on low light. Almost every clip will have areas like this and it depends if it's on the wall in the shadows or the shadow side of a persons long hair. Most of the time the Gh5 almost fills in these areas with darker shadow then what we see. It almost or does have less range in the mid to darker values. Instead of 7 the GH5 gives us 4 values on the grey scale. 

- Hybrid cameras should have good video and photo abilities because they share the same sensor and processor. We all know the GH5 doesn't do photo's well and there's a reason for that. The Lumix S1 and S1R seems to have pushed photo and video to the next level. So in the same family you have the Gh5 and S1 it's clear from the S1 how far back the GH5 is in image quality. The C100 has atone of cine feature and controls but no one is replacing the GH5 with the C200.

If you haven't tried it already, maybe the 6K anamorphic mode might work better for you?  It uses h265 instead of h264, and has way less sharpening (or maybe none? not sure).  

I don't know what you mean about it giving us "wide open wide shots" or that it can't give "mid cowboy" shots.  There doesn't seem to be anything magical about sensor size - it's just about using the right lenses.

You're right about it not being a low-light king, but I've found the answer to that to be using fast lenses.  I know that by using large aperture settings makes focusing more difficult, but with my 17.5mm at f0.95 or my 40mm at f1.8 the camera can see about the same as I can at its base ISO.

The GH5 isn't actually so far back, it's more that we're spoiled, but also you have to take the cost into account, comparing a GH5 to S1 without taking price into account is like comparing the S1 to an Alexa - an academic but not-so-useful exercise.

6 hours ago, Skip77 said:

Why not? He seemed to bring a lot to the discussion. 

He did.  Unfortunately he also brought a lot of conflict and animosity into the conversation as well.

My personal opinion of Jon is that deep down he's a good guy - he helped me out with lots of info via PMs in the past.  I'd encourage you to get in touch with him if you feel so inclined.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, kye said:

If you haven't tried it already, maybe the 6K anamorphic mode might work better for you?  It uses h265 instead of h264, and has way less sharpening (or maybe none? not sure).  

I don't know what you mean about it giving us "wide open wide shots" or that it can't give "mid cowboy" shots.  There doesn't seem to be anything magical about sensor size - it's just about using the right lenses.

You're right about it not being a low-light king, but I've found the answer to that to be using fast lenses.  I know that by using large aperture settings makes focusing more difficult, but with my 17.5mm at f0.95 or my 40mm at f1.8 the camera can see about the same as I can at its base ISO.

The GH5 isn't actually so far back, it's more that we're spoiled, but also you have to take the cost into account, comparing a GH5 to S1 without taking price into account is like comparing the S1 to an Alexa - an academic but not-so-useful exercise.

He did.  Unfortunately he also brought a lot of conflict and animosity into the conversation as well.

My personal opinion of Jon is that deep down he's a good guy - he helped me out with lots of info via PMs in the past.  I'd encourage you to get in touch with him if you feel so inclined.

The S1 is not far off from the original GH5 price. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, kye said:

My personal opinion of Jon is that deep down he's a good guy - he helped me out with lots of info via PMs in the past.  I'd encourage you to get in touch with him if you feel so inclined.

Yeah he is a wiz at HLG stuff and Luts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Skip77 said:

The S1 is not far off from the original GH5 price. 

But the original price isn't what people are paying these days.

Tech always devalues, otherwise people who are talking about laptop computers would be comparing them to the original computers with valves in them that took up entire floors of buildings and cost millions of dollars in money from back then, which is obviously a stupid comparison because the tech has advanced and gotten cheaper.   

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, kye said:

But the original price isn't what people are paying these days.

Tech always devalues, otherwise people who are talking about laptop computers would be comparing them to the original computers with valves in them that took up entire floors of buildings and cost millions of dollars in money from back then, which is obviously a stupid comparison because the tech has advanced and gotten cheaper.   

 

People had no issue comparing the GH5 to the A6500 when it came out and sayin the GH5 was better which it is. So price points are the same each year and have been sine camera / cine gear hit the market. Prices won't go down except we will get more for the money now. You're still paying $2,000 for the GH6 and the S1 is comparable. To say the price is the reason the S1 is better is GH5 owners looking for an out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

People had no issue comparing the GH5 to the A6500 when it came out and sayin the GH5 was better which it is. So price points are the same each year and have been sine camera / cine gear hit the market. Prices won't go down except we will get more for the money now. You're still paying $2,000 for the GH6 and the S1 is comparable. To say the price is the reason the S1 is better is GH5 owners looking for an out. 

I once saw someone give a mobile flip-phone a 1-star rating because they didn't like the ringtones it came with.  Just because people do something doesn't make it sensible.  You can go on comparing the past with the future all you like, but I fail to see how its relevant or even useful.  If you're looking to answer the question "Should I buy an S1 or get in my time machine and go back to when the GH5 was launched and buy one of those?  They were the same price at launch" then I think you've missed the point of what the potential of a time machine is :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, kye said:

I once saw someone give a mobile flip-phone a 1-star rating because they didn't like the ringtones it came with.  Just because people do something doesn't make it sensible.  You can go on comparing the past with the future all you like, but I fail to see how its relevant or even useful.  If you're looking to answer the question "Should I buy an S1 or get in my time machine and go back to when the GH5 was launched and buy one of those?  They were the same price at launch" then I think you've missed the point of what the potential of a time machine is :) 

I'm not sure your argument makes sense because the GH5 is still on the market sold as new and 2 years old. The GH5 is the current flagship model in the m4/3 line up. The S1 is the entry level full frame and $2,495 for the body only. The GH5 is also touted as a great camera will great color and all the features you need. It's also claimed to be better then the Nikon Z6 by miles. My point is the S1 is like the Z6 and is better in image quality and color then the GH5. People don't like to hear the S1 is better then the Gh5 because they bought the GH5 or they bought into the hype of the GH5. Simple as that.

Panasonic actually talked about how much better the S1 would be then any mirrorless camera they've made before and that claim included the GH5. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The S1 is Not a better video camera. It is touted as a better Photo camera. How many give a crap about that on here. I sure as hell in this day and age am not paying 2500 bucks for a new Photo camera that probably in reality sucks ass in the AF department. What the hell good is that! You sort of only get one shot, pun intended.

I can buy a used Canon 1Dx, or a Nikon D4s for that kind of money, and I WILL get the shot, great color and all. And I can drive nails with them if I need to, and fend off serial killers if need be.. Plus I can probably find a F ing native lens for them to boot that I can still filter booze with both kidneys in tact. Leica Really doesn't Need any more money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

The S1 is Not a better video camera. It is touted as a better Photo camera. How many give a crap about that on here. I sure as hell in this day and age am not paying 2500 bucks for a new Photo camera that probably in reality sucks ass in the AF department. What the hell good is that! You sort of only get one shot, pun intended.

I can buy a used Canon 1Dx, or a Nikon D4s for that kind of money, and I WILL get the shot, great color and all. And I can drive nails with them if I need to, and fend off serial killers if need be.. Plus I can probably find a F ing native lens for them to boot that I can still filter booze with both kidneys in tact. Leica Really doesn't Need any more money.

You need to get up to date brother or your eyes checked. I said the S1 has a better image, color and quality then the GH5. Every GH5 owner that's tested the S1 has said this and videos online prove it. You say the same thing about every camera except eh GH5 and that is "that cameras not better then the GH5, hell I can get a used.........." - who cares what used piece of crap camera you can pick up.

 You haven't tested the S1 or the Z6 and both cameras will have 12 bit raw and both have better color and low light then the GH5. You can keep the scopes and meter and other feature because image quality wins at the end of the day. 

And here's SOC video still from 4K 30fps that has perfect color from the Z6. 

 

Z6Hond5.jpg

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

The S1 is Not a better video camera. It is touted as a better Photo camera. How many give a crap about that on here. I sure as hell in this day and age am not paying 2500 bucks for a new Photo camera that probably in reality sucks ass in the AF department. What the hell good is that! You sort of only get one shot, pun intended.

I can buy a used Canon 1Dx, or a Nikon D4s for that kind of money, and I WILL get the shot, great color and all. And I can drive nails with them if I need to, and fend off serial killers if need be.. Plus I can probably find a F ing native lens for them to boot that I can still filter booze with both kidneys in tact. Leica Really doesn't Need any more money.

And it's clear you based your opinion pre-release rumor from haters. Why? I have no idea since it seem like you have tons of knowledge. 

I'm going to go post in the Raw Shooting Cameras section about the Z6. Do you wanna come along with your GH5? On man the GH5 doesn't shoot Raw. Never mind!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Z6 as of now Does NOT shoot Raw. It might Never shoot Raw. And and how many people even want to shit with Raw if it does. I really don't. Probably 3 people on here even use Raw. Even Mercer, if he shot ProRes LT, would be on his 5th episode of his movie by now.

And the picture above is a Photo, not a frame grab. Last I knew this is a video site pretty much. Not hard in this day to figure out how to make a camera shoot Photos. Nikon sort of has been doing that for a few years. I could give a rats ass about photos. My phone can do that,and probably just about as good in decent to good light..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

You need to get up to date brother or your eyes checked.

One thing I have learned from this forum and others, both across film-maker as well as professional colourist discussions, is that different people have different taste and associations.  There is evidence to suggest that we heavily identify with the aesthetic that was to our taste during our teenage years according to a range of biological factors, including things like the levels of hormones burn in the neural pathways more strongly, etc.  

In this sense, many prefer film, which is medium/high resolution but low sharpness, high DR but variable in tint and saturation, etc.  Getting an 8K camera will not be a step forwards for these folks, despite the fact it is objectively 'better'.  

The other thing to remember is that we are creating art, not doing scientific record-keeping, so the aesthetic lining up with the artists vision is the fidelity that is required, not fidelity to reality (unless reality is the artists vision..).

1 hour ago, Skip77 said:

I'm going to go post in the Raw Shooting Cameras section about the Z6. Do you wanna come along with your GH5? On man the GH5 doesn't shoot Raw. Never mind!

I'm not particularly interested in shooting RAW but here's my counter-offer - why don't you come along and hang out in the 3 Hour 1 Minute Film Challenge thread where we try and look at all the aspects of film-making instead of SNR and bitrate.

To paraphrase one of the guidelines of the challenge....  Publish in 720p - equipment shouldn't matter and if your film looks dull in 720 then 4K RAW will not save you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

The Z6 as of now Does NOT shoot Raw. It might Never shoot Raw. And and how many people even want to shit with Raw if it does. I really don't. Probably 3 people on here even use Raw. Even Mercer, if he shot ProRes LT, would be on his 5th episode of his movie by now.

And the picture above is a Photo, not a frame grab. Last I knew this is a video site pretty much. Not hard in this day to figure out how to make a camera shoot Photos. Nikon sort of has been doing that for a few years. I could give a rats ass about photos. My phone can do that,and probably just about as good in decent to good light..

The Nikon Z6 is scheduled to get 12 bit Raw ProRes output to Atomos Ninja recorder. Where did you get your information? You have Nikon with this info and Atomos saying the same-thing. Where do you get that the Z6 might never get Raw? 

 

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

The Z6 as of now Does NOT shoot Raw. It might Never shoot Raw. And and how many people even want to shit with Raw if it does. I really don't. Probably 3 people on here even use Raw. Even Mercer, if he shot ProRes LT, would be on his 5th episode of his movie by now.

And the picture above is a Photo, not a frame grab. Last I knew this is a video site pretty much. Not hard in this day to figure out how to make a camera shoot Photos. Nikon sort of has been doing that for a few years. I could give a rats ass about photos. My phone can do that,and probably just about as good in decent to good light..

Here's the video that you claim is a photo. 

 

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

I could give a rats ass about photos. My phone can do that,and probably just about as good in decent to good light..

You must have more to say then that since you thought a video still was actually a photo.

31 minutes ago, kye said:

One thing I have learned from this forum and others, both across film-maker as well as professional colourist discussions, is that different people have different taste and associations.  There is evidence to suggest that we heavily identify with the aesthetic that was to our taste during our teenage years according to a range of biological factors, including things like the levels of hormones burn in the neural pathways more strongly, etc.  

In this sense, many prefer film, which is medium/high resolution but low sharpness, high DR but variable in tint and saturation, etc.  Getting an 8K camera will not be a step forwards for these folks, despite the fact it is objectively 'better'.  

The other thing to remember is that we are creating art, not doing scientific record-keeping, so the aesthetic lining up with the artists vision is the fidelity that is required, not fidelity to reality (unless reality is the artists vision..).

I'm not particularly interested in shooting RAW but here's my counter-offer - why don't you come along and hang out in the 3 Hour 1 Minute Film Challenge thread where we try and look at all the aspects of film-making instead of SNR and bitrate.

To paraphrase one of the guidelines of the challenge....  Publish in 720p - equipment shouldn't matter and if your film looks dull in 720 then 4K RAW will not save you

I will check out the 3 hour 1 minute Film Challenge - I didn't know it existed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, kye said:

One thing I have learned from this forum and others, both across film-maker as well as professional colourist discussions, is that different people have different taste and associations.  There is evidence to suggest that we heavily identify with the aesthetic that was to our taste during our teenage years according to a range of biological factors, including things like the levels of hormones burn in the neural pathways more strongly, etc.  

In this sense, many prefer film, which is medium/high resolution but low sharpness, high DR but variable in tint and saturation, etc.  Getting an 8K camera will not be a step forwards for these folks, despite the fact it is objectively 'better'.  

The other thing to remember is that we are creating art, not doing scientific record-keeping, so the aesthetic lining up with the artists vision is the fidelity that is required, not fidelity to reality (unless reality is the artists vision..).

I'm not particularly interested in shooting RAW but here's my counter-offer - why don't you come along and hang out in the 3 Hour 1 Minute Film Challenge thread where we try and look at all the aspects of film-making instead of SNR and bitrate.

To paraphrase one of the guidelines of the challenge....  Publish in 720p - equipment shouldn't matter and if your film looks dull in 720 then 4K RAW will not save you

The whole point of shooting with a RED or C200 or any cine camera is the best representation of reality as we can. Doesn't matter if you're shooting Log or not. The idea is for the important stuff you need good cine gear. 

Lots of misinformation being spread around about the new S1 and Z6 that were rumors started before the cameras were released that they would be better still cameras but not so good for video. 

Since we are in the "video forum" you see post daily were someone is asking how good this camera is vs another. 

For some reason telling someone that the GH5 is great for the money and the newer full frame cameras aren't any better is flat out not true. And that kind of comment will lead to someone buying the Gh5 in 2019, investing in m4/3 glass and making a mistake in the process. The BMP4K is better then the GH5 but that's not discussed either. Be a GH5 fan boy but don't point people in the wrong direction. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

For some reason telling someone that the GH5 is great for the money and the newer full frame cameras aren't any better is flat out not true. And that kind of comment will lead to someone buying the Gh5 in 2019, investing in m4/3 glass and making a mistake in the process. The BMP4K is better then the GH5 but that's not discussed either. Be a GH5 fan boy but don't point people in the wrong direction. 

The Nikon doesn't shoot 10 bit internally or have even half of the video features of the GH5, and it currently doesn't have raw shooting and if and when it comes, you'll need an external recorder.

The S1 also doesn't offer half of the shooting modes of the GH5 and I believe only offers one 10 bit internal record mode right now.  It'll be more interesting to people when the V-log update becomes available.  But that'll be then.

The GH5 has been a workhorse for over two years with a proven set of features that are available right now.  People shoot professional work with it now and have established workflows with it.  They know what to expect from it and how to get their best work from it.  In addition it still has almost no competition in the unique video features it packs into the body.. and yeah, it's over two years old.  At its current price, it is still a great buy if you want to record 10 bit internal video with a built in stabilizer.

Personally, I'm playing "wait and see" to observe what happens after the raw and v-log updates show up, but personally I'm more interested in seeing what the GH6 may offer.  Not everyone needs or cares about shooting video in Vista Vision / full frame.  And just because it's a flavor of the moment, doesn't mean it's actually necessary or better than micro four thirds.  And the general observation by the community is that the smaller sensors like APSC and m43 get the cooler video features earlier than full frame competitors due to heat and sensor read times.

Also, some of us REALLY hate rolling shutter and it's a more pronounced issue on full frame bodies.  I could see possibly picking up a full frame and using it mostly in crop mode, but then I end up asking myself why bother when the camera I've owned for two years has more video modes and features.  And in another year or so, there will be some new camera like the GH6 to grab our interest.

I see you bought a Nikon Z6.  It's a great camera-- go enjoy it.  Pretty much every camera out there can deliver excellent results.  But different people have different needs.  I don't know why you are on this crusade to troll the GH5  thread and convince us that we need to sell our cameras.

I'll end by just saying, if I was in the market for a new camera and buying into a new system, the Z6 and S1 would be very tempting and both look to be really exciting systems for someone new to the market.¬† You really can't make a bad choice.¬† For me, I have years of prior work experience going back to¬†10 bit¬†Cineon files from the scanned film days.¬† It's something I'm used to and really appreciate.... so I'd probably be much more drawn to a camera that recorded 10 bit internally.¬† ¬† When I saw the GH5 was going to offer 10 bit log, Panasonic won me over, and I took a chance and bought it on day one.¬† I've now come to love all the cool features it offers that I didn't even know I was missing, but now wouldn't want to do without them.¬† Yeah, the color doesn't perfectly match an Alexa, and an Alexa doesn't perfectly match scanned film.¬† But there are so many great choices out there we're spoiled with great options.¬†¬†ūüėé

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...