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Andrew Reid

Panasonic GH5 - all is revealed!

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12 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Try it and tell me what you think compared to vlog. 

I don't use/own vlog, as i don't need it.

However, it doesn't need to be tested, as this is a math/science thing not an artistic perception thing.

 

when you do a color space transform, your dynamic range is constrained by the final color space. If you have footage with 15 stops of range, and you want to shove it into a color space with 5 stops, it is compressed down to fit into the 5 stop range, or it's clipped.

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
6 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

More DR in = more DR out.

15 stops capured shows more DR than 8 stops captured on a 5 stop screen.

That's purely perception!

If you are using  a screen that follows the rec 709 spec you are not going to see more than 5 stops. Technically you have about another stop in the over exposed highlights and underexposed shadows, but the display wont show them. 

The only way you are getting more than 5 stops is if you are using a custom gamma, like REDGamma, but then again your display has to know what to do with it.
 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Dan Sherman said:

That's purely perception!

If you are using  a screen that follows the rec 709 spec you are not going to see more than 5 stops. Technically you have about another stop in the over exposed highlights and underexposed shadows, but the display wont show them. 

The only way you are getting more than 5 stops is if you are using a custom gamma, like REDGamma, but then again your display has to know what to do with it.
 

 

 

I think it should give you more room in grading though to decide where those stops are going.

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18 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I think it should give you more room in grading though to decide where those stops are going.

That's correct, You get more leeway when you start with more dynamic range, because most nles work outside the constraints of a given profile. However, once you render out you are bound by the constraints of the color space you are rendering in. 

It might not sound important, but it is!

 

 

 

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I’m confused. I understand that Rec709 (for instance) only has so many visible stops but if you display one of those dynamic range charts in a Rec 709 space, you can clearly see more than 5 stops of DR.

And there’s also the effect of DR on color tonality, highlight rolloff, etc. So it seems it is a little more complex than just to say you can only display so many stops in any specific space?

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2 hours ago, mercer said:

I’m confused. I understand that Rec709 (for instance) only has so many visible stops but if you display one of those dynamic range charts in a Rec 709 space, you can clearly see more than 5 stops of DR.

And there’s also the effect of DR on color tonality, highlight rolloff, etc. So it seems it is a little more complex than just to say you can only display so many stops in any specific space?


I'm probably not the best person to explain this type of thing. This is a good starting point!

http://downloads.atomos.com/support/HDR_Tech_Guide.pdf

Quote

Before you can display an image you need to record it from the sensor. As explained above, the sensor sees light completely linearly, it measures every photon of light in bands of the 4096 steps that exist on a 12-bit sensor. When it comes to recording we need to match what can be displayed on monitors. The 12+ stops of dynamic range capable with modern day sensors are hamstrung by the 5-6 stop limit1 of television standards still currently used (Rec709). Log curves solve this problem be “bending” the brightness curve to fit 12 or 14 stops of dynamic range into an 8 or 10-bit signal, but at the expense of no longer matching human perception so the image looks flat or washed out and is difficult to expose correctly. AtomHDR solves this.

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, mercer said:

I’m confused. I understand that Rec709 (for instance) only has so many visible stops but if you display one of those dynamic range charts in a Rec 709 space, you can clearly see more than 5 stops of DR.

And there’s also the effect of DR on color tonality, highlight rolloff, etc. So it seems it is a little more complex than just to say you can only display so many stops in any specific space?

There is no rule mandating a 1:1 correlation between dynamic range captured and dynamic range displayed.

Measuring the "stops of DR" of Rec.709 is based on an 8 bit image with a standard gamma curve. This means that on a Rec709 screen, the light emitted by a white pixel is 5 stops brighter than the light emitted by a black pixel. It doesn't matter what the pixels refer to--an "untouched" video from your camera, CGI, some text, a webpage, etc.

The amount of compression (or expansion) of dynamic range that you apply to an image is just an artistic choice. It's just like a CGI render: your image doesn't HAVE to look like the real world, but it will end up on a screen that emits 5 stops of DR. So, to make a "natural" looking image, you should display about 5 stops of real world DR on that screen. However, we've universally agreed that we like a little bit of compression at least, so we put maybe 8 stops of the real world onto our 5 stop display. But if you show straight up log footage with 12 or 14 stops, it looks really unnatural.

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Hey everyone, been going back and forth on a ton of ideas, and have landed at looking at GH5 for a few reasons. I am all canon at the moment, considered a c100 and EOS R, but those I don't think are going to really work. SO now looking at GH5 for:

- IBIS with their 12-35 f/2.8 lens. Dual IS
- No recording time limit and Clean HDMI out. Live Streaming, Events longer than 29:59 which I do a bunch of at work.
- 1080 up to 180p. I use slo mo a lot now at 60p and it’s OK, but 120 or 180 would be awesome

How would a GH5 + 12-35 f/2.8 & 35-100 f/2.8 compare to Canon with 24-70 and 70-200?
Does that native combo do well or should I look at Metabones, for my Canon Glass?
Is low light really that bad on GH5?
Will it match Canon 80d and 6d2 footage?
Is IBIS + Dual lens IS great? or just a little better than Canon IS lenses?

Budget was around $3,500 and this could get body and 2 lenses, or body, adapter, and 1 lens. Already have 80d, 6d2, 16-35 f/4, 35 f/2, 70-200 f/2.8, 18-135 USM, 10-18 STM, Nifty 50. 

Thanks in advance

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1 hour ago, BrunoLandMedia said:

How would a GH5 + 12-35 f/2.8 & 35-100 f/2.8 compare to Canon with 24-70 and 70-200?

Is low light really that bad on GH5?


Will it match Canon 80d and 6d2 footage?

 

What are you wanting to compare about the lenses,  and what cannons are you talking about the f/2.8s or f/4s?


First you need to define low light, as that's a concept that's not the same for everyone.


matching footage will require grading.

 

 

 

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Does anyone know the price history of the GH5 and when it's likely to drop in price further?

I haven't been following it, but now it's in first place in my list so I'm wondering about timing.  I'm gathering that some of these new cameras being released are going to replace GH5s and thus the used price will drop?

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1 hour ago, matthere said:

@kyeNot sure geographically where you are, but I use camerapricebuster for UK price histories on cameras and lenses..

https://www.camerapricebuster.co.uk/Panasonic/Panasonic-G-System-Cameras/Panasonic-Lumix-DMC-GH5-Camera-Body not sure if there are other versions of the site, but this may give you what you need?

Thanks - it kind of does.  

I was more thinking something like "it went down when the GH5S came out and people upgraded and then the retail went down before xmas and then people sold a bunch  when the A7III was released" etc..  Do cameras drop in price when newer competing cameras are announced, or released, or is it more seasonal, eg xmas?

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8 hours ago, kye said:

Does anyone know the price history of the GH5 and when it's likely to drop in price further?

I haven't been following it, but now it's in first place in my list so I'm wondering about timing.  I'm gathering that some of these new cameras being released are going to replace GH5s and thus the used price will drop?

Don't know, but I see them listed on FM from $1100 - $1200 right now.

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