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Did Samsung just kill the A7rii?


Mattias Burling
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looks like it's trying to stabilize fixed on the plants and not actually along with the camera movements..? looks surreal and odd. that just me?

I think it's the auto focus that is making it look odd, but only really noticeable on shots with a shallow dof. I bet with a wide angle, with wide depth, it would be imperceptible. All in all, it looks pretty, damn good. I hope the NX500 gets DIS. 

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I really like Warp Stabilizer. It has produced decent to fantastic results for me when run with detailed analysis and enhanced RS reduction (under advanced). The problem is that it takes forever, so anything close to it in camera (like DIS or IBIS) is going to be way more preferable. Also, WS results look strange when there is a lot of motion blur (the object looks still, but has blur on different sides), so IMO it only works well with low shutter angles or when the movement is limited.

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looks like it's trying to stabilize fixed on the plants and not actually along with the camera movements..? looks surreal and odd. that just me?

It looks pretty good to me in this clip. All the scenes were shot at the long end of the 50-200. The first part is just OIS and then OIS plus DIS. Not perfect but much better than just the OIS of the 50-200.

https://vimeo.com/136934126

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sorry all I see is reduced vibrations and jello.

But it sounds like none of you have the camera. So let's all try and not stear the thread of topic and wait for someone that have it to confirm or deny the usability of the DIS. 

Mattias, yes you are right I don't have the camera. But based on an example that shows that jello is still there: https://vimeo.com/136934126 my opinion to your provocative title is that no, I don't expect the DIS to "kill the A7rII". Especially when using lenses without OIS. 

Let me elaborate a bit. 

In principle even with the same rolling shutter (NX1 & A7rII S35) the IBIS is going to have less of a jello effect. 

Digital image correction can be done in multiple ways. One is the stabilization for motion across frames like the wrap stabilizer of premiere. This can have adverse effects of unnatural image distortion. The other is within image correction of the rolling shutter effect. The last one can be done in two different ways: 1. Estimate the transformation from the rolling shutter across multiple frames (Premiere does this). This cannot really correct anything other than the constant angled distortion from a fast pan. 2. Use the true rolling shutter information & the information from a gyro to fix the transformation of the image caused by the rolling shutter (E-M1 presumably does this). 

It is apparent from the attached footage that the NX1 DIS does not do the last part since most probably it does not have a gyro inside. 

I don't know if the A7rII does that either but most probably the IBIS help with the jello, and adding a "slight" warp stabilizer in post will get you a more natural image.  

Now I don't want to downplay the NX1 as a very nice camera, or the efforts from Samsung to improve an already unique product or the usability of the build in DIS in some circumstances. As I have said before, I just don't like "camera vs camera" threads. It would be better if the title was more in the lines of "NX1 keeps on getting better".

P.S. I can't say I am not biased since I have the E-M1 and the A7rII is arriving next week :). 

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LOL Right. Especially when After Effects makes wonders! (Sorry Mattias!)

Well, here's an Sony's IBIS sample with "lots of quality loss" ; )

PS: Adding information on that sample's OP... Mattias Burling ;-)

Could you clarify, because I really don't get your point at all.

But if you mean what I think you mean my response is,

No, do absolutely not depend on After Effects. The whole "Fix it in post" strategy is and always been a bad strategy. If you want steady shots, just bring a tripod and be done with it.

Same goes for stabilisation, lens or in camera, it's nice to have. Sometimes very nice. But it's not gonna make your video for you. YOU need to work for it.

Making sloppy exposures, bad audio recordings, etc just to "fix it in post" is gonna bite you every time. 

Fix it in camera.  

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I have the em5ii and it's really a lot of fun. I mean, I can do stuff handheld that's cool as heck, and pretty easy. 

That said, however, image stabilization is not a style you'd want to do for everything. 

The more hand held look does have a certain organic vibrancy for particular scenes.

you can't really pan and tilt with IS, and landing a moving shot is not really possible without a robotic/algorithmic visual "snap."

So, while I feel the em5ii IQ is actually pretty acceptable, (a lot of folks dismiss it) turning off the stabilizer is something I do on the em5ii from time to time without much regret.  It still records a nice image and the colors are pretty good too  

Point is, all these tech thingies are just tools. Use em where appropriate and you'll be fine. 

And if your camera doesn't have a certain feature set, so what!?  Make do without it.

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looks like it's trying to stabilize fixed on the plants and not actually along with the camera movements..? looks surreal and odd. that just me?

 Reminds me of the Snorricam... I think they could use this as a special effect by going more extreme with it. The they could do another version that is retweaked for DIS.

Samsung is really not playing around. Hopefully they add something like S-Log in the next update.

 I'm waiting for their next camera. Hopefully it with have 4k @ 60fps and improved dr to go along with a flat unsharpened profile.

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Some tests I just did with the Samsung DIS

You should go off the Tyrrell's, you're shaking like mad! :d

I think the DIS is an interesting feature and quite admirable, I doubt there's any major company that would have added something like this gratis. It seems to work best with longer focal lenghts. And it just came out, so there's probably a few tweaks to be made.

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You should go off the Tyrrell's, you're shaking like mad! :d

I think the DIS is an interesting feature and quite admirable, I doubt there's any major company that would have added something like this gratis. It seems to work best with longer focal lenghts. And it just came out, so there's probably a few tweaks to be made.

Haha Yes that was quite shaky :) 

But, the 85mm is quite hard to stabilise handheld :/ 

Also I don't know if it has been mentioned before, but the DIS helps a lot with camera movements in general (panning for instance). It really smoothes things out ! 

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In addition to image stability, I'm happy to announce my unofficial, unplanned drop test was a complete success. 

Peak design backpack kit was a complete failure though. Dropped the nx1 from 5 feet onto solid granite straight onto the lens and slid 10 more feet down the mountain. It still runs like a champ. The thing is a tank.

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Because it often gets dirty or dusty while shooting which sends vibrations upp through the camera.

Ah.  I'd suggest that if you're getting too much friction on your slider a trick to alleviate some of that jitteriness is to rotate the slider on the z-axis.  This effectively changes the center of gravity more to the balance point of your camera rig while not changing the direction of the slide.  Once the tension is lessened the slide should become nice and smooth.

For instance,  If I shoot a slider shot with a light 50mm prime on my 5D, then the weight of the camera is close to the center of the actual slider plate and it moves easily.  However, if I put on a big and heavy 24-70mm redband lens, then the balance point is farther away from the center and it can bind the slider plate.  A simple counter-angle adjustment moves that center point back to a more manageable useful spot.

Any of that make sense?

Anyway, that solution might cost less than buying a new camera body.  For production problems like this I like to recommend to change your technique, not the technology.

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