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Did Samsung just kill the A7rii?


Mattias Burling
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I also think 6k is doable. Both raw and encoded. They could immediately kill the competition in letting 6k to be recorded raw. But perhaps they'd also limit the appeal of their future products, who knows?

10bit vs 8bit could be a hw limit of the h.265  encoder.

Which is why they don't do it. To not kill the competition, because Samsung loves competition so much.

I apologize for the sarcasm, but I am so interested in the reason behind Samsung not doing anything better than 4k 24p H265. Hell they wouldn't even need 6k raw to kill the competition, 4k H264 60p would be enough. 

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You guys all underestimate limitations of hardware and physics. 4K processing is maxing out today's consumer electronics. Internal video imaging pipelines in all consumer hardware are only 8bit at this point - if you want 10bit, you'll need a fundamental change of internal architecture. Recording images in higher frame rates and higher resolutions might be supported by the sensor chip but simply will not work in terms of heat and power management if you want to keep a camera body compact and consumer-friendly (as opposed to the body sizes, cooling systems and power consumption that are normal for digital cinema cameras like the Blackmagic 4Km, Red or Arri Amira). Even if you're Samsung and have the most advanced chip technology, you can only do engineering, not magic.

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You guys all underestimate limitations of hardware and physics. 4K processing is maxing out today's consumer electronics. Internal video imaging pipelines in all consumer hardware are only 8bit at this point - if you want 10bit, you'll need a fundamental change of internal architecture. Recording images in higher frame rates and higher resolutions might be supported by the sensor chip but simply will not work in terms of heat and power management if you want to keep a camera body compact and consumer-friendly (as opposed to the body sizes, cooling systems and power consumption that are normal for digital cinema cameras like the Blackmagic 4Km, Red or Arri Amira). Even if you're Samsung and have the most advanced chip technology, you can only do engineering, not magic.

Samsung is developing 11k screens. Don't think they're planning on magic to create the content. 

http://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/samsung-11k-screen-news/

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Neosushi and cantsin, let's think this way. The nx1 1) samples 6k x 4k pixels at 24fps, 2) resizes them at 4k res, then 3) encodes this into h.265 and 4) saves it to the internal sd card.

If it just jumped on steps 2 and 3 and sent the output of the sensor (raw) through hdmi it would be less processing involved and less heat developed, for sure.

 

See it from another angle. Don't forget the nx1 can save 15fps in burst mode with raw+jpg. Save it raw only, don't use the mechanical shutter and you already have a sort of (low fps) 6k movie. The jump from 15 to 24 is easy imho.

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If it just jumped on steps 2 and 3 and sent the output of the sensor (raw) through hdmi it would be less processing involved and less heat developed, for sure.

[...]

See it from another angle. Don't forget the nx1 can save 15fps in burst mode with raw+jpg. Save it raw only, don't use the mechanical shutter and you already have a sort of (low fps) 6k movie. The jump from 15 to 24 is easy imho.

It's not that easy:

  1. You can't send raw sensor output through HDMI, only debayered/processed 8bit or 10bit video signals.
  2. The 15fps bursts are limited through the camera's RAM buffer. The camera cannot write this continuously, at stable frame rates with audio sync. In addition, there is no SD card in the world that is fast enough to store 6K raw data in real time. You will need dedicated SSD drives for that. On top of that, the camera would not be able to write such enormous amounts of continuous data without additional cooling systems.

No offense, but if such fantasies take over this forum, then it will end up as a camera cargo cult site rather than a forum for filmmakers.

 

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Cantsin, I see your concerns. But with sandisk extremeextreme uhs-ii the nx1 is now capable to write up to 6-8fps with buffer full (endlessly), again raw 6k. How long for a card which is 2-3x faster? And ssd are already much faster than this.

 

Ok for the audio, it can be a mode with no audio (to be recorded with separate device). I'm really convinced that the hw of nx1 could do it now, but we won't ever know, unless some magic lantern like fw pops up.

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It's not that easy:

  1. You can't send raw sensor output through HDMI, only debayered/processed 8bit or 10bit video signals.
  2. The 15fps bursts are limited through the camera's RAM buffer. The camera cannot write this continuously, at stable frame rates with audio sync. In addition, there is no SD card in the world that is fast enough to store 6K raw data in real time. You will need dedicated SSD drives for that. On top of that, the camera would not be able to write such enormous amounts of continuous data without additional cooling systems.

No offense, but if such fantasies take over this forum, then it will end up as a camera cargo cult site rather than a forum for filmmakers.

 

Well you can always open a topic about Tarkovsky so we can all start discussing filmmaking. 

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