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A 15MP Sony Mirrorless Camera will be Announced Soon

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8 minutes ago, JurijTurnsek said:

You misunderstand me. What is keeping Sony from making a 48mpx (12mpx output) sensor that does 120p with no crop. Who even cares about the additional 3mpx, unless there is some important reason behind this choice.

The sensor is probably based on the same pixel design as the 60Mp A7R IV sensor, so this way is much easier and more efficient than designing another sensor with 48Mp from the ground up

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39 minutes ago, JurijTurnsek said:

You misunderstand me. What is keeping Sony from making a 48mpx (12mpx output) sensor that does 120p with no crop. Who even cares about the additional 3mpx, unless there is some important reason behind this choice.

Sony Semicon already has a 10MP sensor that does 4K 120p with no crop 

33 minutes ago, toxotis70 said:

maybe its because of EIS...it needs more room to do good electronic stabilization.

There’s no EIS

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3 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

You misunderstand me. What is keeping Sony from making a 48mpx (12mpx output) sensor that does 120p with no crop. Who even cares about the additional 3mpx, unless there is some important reason behind this choice.

48 mpx will require a lot of processing, which will translate into heat, which will translate into no 4K120.

The sensor he listed has a quad beyer structure, which means that pixels are arranged in groups of 4 same color filters, unlike the conventional beyer filter. So, even though it is a 60 mpx sensor, it acts like a 15 mpx sensor because of how the filter structure is arranged.

 

1 hour ago, Gianluca said:

And what the point of 15 megapixel and not 12? To have a crop? In still mode, it's possibile to get 61 megapixel images? 

No, it has groups of 4 pixels that behave like 1 pixel when it comes to gathering light. Debeyering would not work with that system, unless it treated the sensor as a 15 mpx sensor. So your stills would be 15 mpx resolution. 

It is basically a modified a7R4 sensor with a different beyer filter arrangement so that it acts like a 15 mpx sensor. The sensor readout would be pixel binned (which you can do without problems because the binned pixels are all the same color) and then processed as a 15 mpx image using normal deyeyering.

Because it is based off the existing sensor (just with a different filter) it comes out as 15 mpx rather than something else like 12 mpx (which would require the design of a completely new sensor, increasing cost)

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Oh, for crying out loud. I know what a Quad Bayer sensor is, no need to explain. Sony has 60mpx and 48mpx FF sensors on offer and to create a 15mpx Quad Bayer sensor, they had to redo the 60mpx sensor. What the hell stopped them from doing the same to their 48mpx sensor that would then output 12mpx and provide no crop in any readout mode.

Also, coming from reviews of mobile phone sensors, Quad Bayer offers better sharpness and no gain in low light over a conventional 12mpx sensor. How does the higher pixel count affect the read-out speed? Is the binning done on the sensor itself? Highly doubt it. Increased sharpness is not cinematic as per this forum, so why would Sony pursue this in their video-centric body? They should at least give the option to output 8K to an external recorder if the pixels are there.

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2 hours ago, androidlad said:

I leaked before them, in the A7S III thread buried somewhere.

That may be true, but Andrew's article reads, "The sensor for the A7S III has leaked on the EOSHD Forum..."

This makes it sound like the info just came to light. Everybody was speculating in July that it might be the A7S3 sensor, but when the camera never materialized and the rumor mill quieted down, I bought an S1. We'll see what Sony releases and what the reviews say. But if Sony uses quad bayer to give us live HDR that could be amazing...

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14 hours ago, Mako Sports said:

Fuji does use Sony sensors...

Ah, they just use a different layout. Well, add them to the list!

5 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

What the hell stopped them from doing the same to their 48mpx sensor that would then output 12mpx and provide no crop in any readout mode.

Balance, my friend, balance. They can‘t just give you 4K120p without nerfing it a bit. This is a universal law of camera products.

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9 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

Oh, for crying out loud. I know what a Quad Bayer sensor is, no need to explain. Sony has 60mpx and 48mpx FF sensors on offer and to create a 15mpx Quad Bayer sensor, they had to redo the 60mpx sensor. What the hell stopped them from doing the same to their 48mpx sensor that would then output 12mpx and provide no crop in any readout mode.

Also, coming from reviews of mobile phone sensors, Quad Bayer offers better sharpness and no gain in low light over a conventional 12mpx sensor. How does the higher pixel count affect the read-out speed? Is the binning done on the sensor itself? Highly doubt it. Increased sharpness is not cinematic as per this forum, so why would Sony pursue this in their video-centric body? They should at least give the option to output 8K to an external recorder if the pixels are there.

The 48 mpx sensors are older and consequently probably perform less well. 

Resolution is always important. You can make an image softer in post if that is what you want, but you can't recover resolution that has been dumped due to the sensor design. The "sharpness" setting in cameras is simply a debeyering parameter. With 4 separate inputs per pixel you potentially can calculate the true color of a pixel more accurately after debeyering than what would otherwise be possible, hence less color error at edges (in other words, less halo effect), which in turn would increase the color resolution of the sensor. You would not need to turn down sharpening in camera as much to avoid color artifacts at edges, basically a better raw image to work with than conventional sensors.

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10 hours ago, abehalpert said:

Sonyalpharumors just reiterated that they leaked this sensor in July...

Professional web surfers.

Who made the rumours sites any kind of authority?

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9 hours ago, Mokara said:

The 48 mpx sensors are older and consequently probably perform less well. 

Resolution is always important. You can make an image softer in post if that is what you want, but you can't recover resolution that has been dumped due to the sensor design. The "sharpness" setting in cameras is simply a debeyering parameter. With 4 separate inputs per pixel you potentially can calculate the true color of a pixel more accurately after debeyering than what would otherwise be possible, hence less color error at edges (in other words, less halo effect), which in turn would increase the color resolution of the sensor. You would not need to turn down sharpening in camera as much to avoid color artifacts at edges, basically a better raw image to work with than conventional sensors.

No-crop video capture has been a very prominent feature of Sony cameras (up untill a7R VI and a6300 respectively). A crop factor for a standout feature (120p) sounds like shoddy product planning in a video-centric body, unless they use those additional mpx for EIS (beginning to sound like a broken record here). Maybe the APS-C crop mode would be atrocious with the 48mpx Quad Bayer and is acceptable with the 60mpx.

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