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7 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

I didn’t read much of your post. Any of them for that matter.

I gotta point out, from how I see it, that's really a crux of the whole issue exposed right there.

Most of my friends are conservative.  I used to live in Michigan, Justin Amash's district.  I can disagree with Justin's POV but still respect his integrity.  I appreciate my friends' integrity and willingness to engage me in discussion.

Sad to say, I think our group are all outliers in this current world.  The thing we do all agree on is that modern politics is not the discussion of ideas and ideals, but an exercise in weaponized psy-ops. And that's not healthy for a nation. 

Dr. Hill couldn't have been more on point in her impeachment testimony about that.

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7 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Nope. You were played.

Just another distraction from the ridiculous impeachment drama. Any time wasted on this is a win. Or if nothing is said it’s a win too I guess. 
The thing is that it’s so obvious. I can’t believe it keeps working.

I didn’t read much of your post. Any of them for that matter. I don’t need the aggravation. See how easy that is? I’m gonna have a great day. If libs could just do that with Trump it would work wonders. But won’t happen.

Anyway. Take care. 

A Trumpkin who's not  interested in the truth, who'd have thunk it.

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This deliberate mess the ruling class has gotten us into is a lot more dangerous than most people want to believe. We have 3 options:

1) Revolution

2) Elect genuine community representatives to our parliaments, get money out of politics, and abandon the 2 party system.

3) Extinction

Anyone who thinks extinction is a joke really needs to read more; climate change, the rise of fascism, and diminishing resources are creating a perfect storm. Revolution is the same shit going around in circles, the working class takes down the ruling class only to end up under the thumb again, take China for example. We need to evolve, and fast. The only workable solution is option 2. Hacking the system will be hard, but sitting on the fence and doing nothing  guarantees one of the other 2 options will transpire.

As filmmakers we can play an important part in this process. I made campaign films for 3 independent candidates in this year's Australian federal election, one of whom  was elected (see below). There's a growing movement in Australia for grassroots independent representation, and we'll be much more organised at the next election.

Left and right is a construct made to divide and conquer. We need to focus on the issues that connect us instead of ideology, otherwise we're all screwed.

 

 

Filmed with a 5D MK3, Magic Lantern raw 1080p upscaled to 4K, and Leica Elmarit R 35mm and 90mm vintage prime lenses. Edited and graded in Resolve + Filmconvert + http://www.colorghear.com/

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Vested interests change Wikipedia pages, and officially so too.   Even pointing out wrongs you get stone walled. Things are written in medical pages from the standpoint of certain people aswell, reinforcing certain conspiratorial conservative behaviours.  The BBC are very left wing biased.  If you are left wing they look neutral, but it has gotten so bad that right wing people loose sight of the non biased things, seeing balanced neutral reporting as even biased.

What's happening in, America, is an indication of how broken it is, particularly the right.  Bernie Sanders looks a credible opportunity, but he is on the margins there, in a country too right and big business, rather than him being just left of central politics, or a bit left of centre (I don't know enough about him, but he seems to be caring about actual Americans).  Just remember that to Hitler, Starlin, and many dictators, 90% of everybody else looks like extremists, because they were extremists.

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I, for one, am going to vote for Bernie Sanders again in the Democratic primary. I actually believe him when he tells me his values. I believe he values human rights. I believe he wants to stop the suffering in the U.S. that is caused by oligarchs manipulating the political system to unfairly hoard an increasing share of the national wealth while removing the social safety net for the vulnerable part of the population. He wants to halt climate change. And he wants to make the world more peaceful. In short, he's a warrior for justice.

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4 hours ago, The ghost of squig said:

This deliberate mess the ruling class has gotten us into is a lot more dangerous than most people want to believe. We have 3 options:

1) Revolution

2) Elect genuine community representatives to our parliaments, get money out of politics, and abandon the 2 party system.

3) Extinction

Anyone who thinks extinction is a joke really needs to read more; climate change, the rise of fascism, and diminishing resources are creating a perfect storm. Revolution is the same shit going around in circles, the working class takes down the ruling class only to end up under the thumb again, take China for example. We need to evolve, and fast. The only workable solution is option 2. Hacking the system will be hard, but sitting on the fence and doing nothing  guarantees one of the other 2 options will transpire.

As filmmakers we can play an important part in this process. I made campaign films for 3 independent candidates in this year's Australian federal election, one of whom  was elected (see below). There's a growing movement in Australia for grassroots independent representation, and we'll be much more organised at the next election.

Left and right is a construct made to divide and conquer. We need to focus on the issues that connect us instead of ideology, otherwise we're all screwed.

 

 

Filmed with a 5D MK3, Magic Lantern raw 1080p upscaled to 4K, and Leica Elmarit R 35mm and 90mm vintage prime lenses. Edited and graded in Resolve + Filmconvert + http://www.colorghear.com/

 

Anthony, I don't believe in the working class speech at all (who's that after all? ; ) class struggle nor absence of ideology, that's where phenomena such as Trump or fascism rise, but moderate views to end in balanced and effective mandatory policies for everyone comply when strictly necessary as climate change demands (US withdrawal from the Paris Agreement should be enough to make some sense into Trumpers head), third parties and independence is the only route to save us all indeed. Because it is a matter to concern the whole world, there are no national voters wherever people think to live in safety. Ridiculous.

Even though, the misery in the third world and its existence as inevitable for the rich world hasn't helped to make it happen. With it, we live in a more or less half full gunpowder barrel.

- E.

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6 hours ago, abehalpert said:

I, for one, am going to vote for Bernie Sanders again in the Democratic primary. I actually believe him when he tells me his values. I believe he values human rights. I believe he wants to stop the suffering in the U.S. that is caused by oligarchs manipulating the political system to unfairly hoard an increasing share of the national wealth while removing the social safety net for the vulnerable part of the population. He wants to halt climate change. And he wants to make the world more peaceful. In short, he's a warrior for justice.

No, he is a demagogue just like Trump, just for the other side. Says things people want to hear so at least some of them will be diehard supporters and his ego will be satisfied. It is less about winning and more about having a core of people swearing blind loyalty to you. So he says things that are "pure" to that demographic and hopes that enough people dislike the other guy more that he will win anyway, even in most voters don't care for him personally. It is NOT about having policies that are going to be agreeable to the majority of Americans. Warren is the same way. I think it totally sucks that mainstream voters are probably going to have to choose between who they dislike the least. It is not a recipe for stable government.

I am sick of these old men and women who should be in a retirement home pretending to have all the answers and wisdom, and I am an old person myself, so I am not being biased here. We need a new generation of leaders, preferably someone who is centrist. I don't care if they are Democrat or Republican, that is not important, what is important is that they have reasonable and practical policies.

Of the Democrat field I think someone like Pete Buttigieg seems like a reasonable candidate to me (among the front runners). The only issue I see with him is that enough Americans are sufficiently biased against gay people that Trump might sneak in anyway. A military guy with administrative experience who comes across as a smart, decent, rational person who doesn't lose his shit when challenged. That would check off most boxes I think. A bit on the young side but I could live with that. Ideally you would want someone in their 50s for the position though, IMO.

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@The ghost of squig @fuzzynormal

Come on guys. Clearly the point of my posts were not to say that I am not interested in fruitful engagement. It’s the unfruitful part that I’m suggesting to avoid. That which aggravates. Like Trump tweeting he built an Apple plant in Texas. Who cares? Let it go. This is an easy one. Let the little stuff go. Life’s too short. 
 

Of course you won’t let it go though. The left just can’t stop making big out of small. And it works in the favor of the one you hate most. And it’s so obvious what’s going on. And it’s both sad and amusing.
 

And this post will be warped to mean something it doesn’t. And so on......

I’ll just sit back and enjoy my day. Have a good one.

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2 hours ago, Mokara said:

No, he is a demagogue just like Trump, just for the other side. Says things people want to hear so at least some of them will be diehard supporters and his ego will be satisfied. It is less about winning and more about having a core of people swearing blind loyalty to you. So he says things that are "pure" to that demographic and hopes that enough people dislike the other guy more that he will win anyway, even in most voters don't care for him personally. It is NOT about having policies that are going to be agreeable to the majority of Americans. Warren is the same way. I think it totally sucks that mainstream voters are probably going to have to choose between who they dislike the least. It is not a recipe for stable government.

I am sick of these old men and women who should be in a retirement home pretending to have all the answers and wisdom, and I am an old person myself, so I am not being biased here. We need a new generation of leaders, preferably someone who is centrist. I don't care if they are Democrat or Republican, that is not important, what is important is that they have reasonable and practical policies.

Of the Democrat field I think someone like Pete Buttigieg seems like a reasonable candidate to me (among the front runners). The only issue I see with him is that enough Americans are sufficiently biased against gay people that Trump might sneak in anyway. A military guy with administrative experience who comes across as a smart, decent, rational person who doesn't lose his shit when challenged. That would check off most boxes I think. A bit on the young side but I could live with that. Ideally you would want someone in their 50s for the position though, IMO.

Bernie Sanders has been saying the exact same things for literally 40 years. It's the American people who have caught up with him. He bears no relation to Trump. Trump lies constantly. Bernie is the only honest politician in this race. I don't agree with everything he says, but I believe that he means what he says.

Pete Buttigieg is probably racist, and besides that his policy prescriptions are so carefully crafted and poll-tested that I don't believe a word he says. It's mostly BS once you dig a little deeper. And he has hard-core partisan reforms (eliminate the electoral college, stack the supreme court) that I approve of but would probably keep him from getting elected IMHO.

Furthermore, I wouldn't vote for anyone younger than 60 for President. Look at how Obama got played repeatedly. Our best operators are in their 70s: Pelosi, McConnell... I hate McConnell, but these old-timers who have been around the block but kept their wits about them can see around corners. And I say that as a 30-year old.

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It's good that we can have a conversation about different view points.

"This is somebody who wants to take credit for something he had no involvement in. He merely walks up the doorstep to endorse it. "

I think that DJT can take some credit for Apple's decision to continue to do some manufacturing in the USA. I am also not American, and have no dog in this race.The president invited many CEO's of large companies to discuss the reasons behind them moving their manufacturing offshore, in an attempt to find out what the issues were, and what his government could do to reverse the trend. And through a combination of rolling back red tape, reducing taxes, and threatening to penalize those companies if they continued to act unpatriotically, he got some good results, and some companies have changed their direction, and are bringing jobs back to America, at the expense of the Chinese & other global players.

That is exactly what his predecessor did not do, and in fact, his predecessor was one of the driving forces behind American companies offshoring in the first place.

So yes, I do believe  (however misplaced, some of you may think my rational is), that DJT does deserve some credit. 

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Jimmy. You nut shelled it buddy. 
 

Someone once said of Trump. The right takes Trump seriously, but not literally. The left takes Trump literally, but not seriously. 
 

Add to that the fact that it doesn’t matter at all what he says. The liberal media takes everything he says and spins and distorts it. Ironically, the liberal media is behaving just like Trump. Maybe we should take them seriously but not literally. :)

In the end this really comes down to core ideology. We care less about the victor’s vices as long as they lean our direction. 

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18 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

If he's impeached and no longer President, can he be charged then (in criminal courts)?

I believe that he would immediately lose his immunity, if he was removed, but what wouls he be charged for?

Having a Vastly Oversized Ego?  I f that was criminal, then there would be a lot of Americans in the dock.

On another note, Andrew, do you know, or have you had any discussions with anyone who has had access to the new Mac Pro's
prior to their release. I have seen a few pics posted on the net of people using them. I am wondering if they will really be worth
the money.

The monitor looks like a very niche product. I can see myself buying the computer, but I could never justify a pair of those monitors.

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3 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Trump tweeting he built an Apple plant in Texas. Who cares? Let it go. This is an easy one. Let the little stuff go.

Believe me, I'm well aware that there's a strategy to manipulate the media, but can we agree that any and all assertions from the POTUS are rarely "little stuff"?

You know, I've heard that "not a big deal" "just a joke" argument as well.  My reply is that lies matter, regardless. I'll always think it's demonstrably detrimental to the nation.  Personal emotional truths are valued over factual evidence, and that doesn't lead to good places in a society that needs to be secular and inclusive to all its citizens. 

Now, you may disagree with that fundamental assertion of what the USA should be regarding evidential facts, and think my rationality is wrong from the start.  One of my friends in particular has realized we're somewhat at odds with this attitude, given his religious devotion, so we know our perspectives --we've learned to cope as best we can.

Nevertheless, hewing to some sort of ideals and reality is a thing that is important, especially in a person unable to hold onto evidential facts being the POTUS.  Petty lies matter or nothing does.  I'd also say, the whole "not a big deal, you shouldn't be so angry" shtick is an argumentative retreat I've hashed out with my friends too.  It's a dismissal and avoidance of criticism; ultimately a sort of "shoot the messenger."  

Maybe tolerating criticism is just something that's not as easily shared if you're a right-leaning personality?  It often seems that way in my experience. I mean, we had some fun arguments when Obama was POTUS, but I personally really never cared too much about allowing such criticisms.  To be fair, I also hang with some hard-core liberals that are annoyingly intolerable with their skewed attitudes about stuff.  Like nails on a chalkboard.  

So, yeah, the "angry" thing as a broad brush?  Not sure about that nor the fairness of the attitude.  Never mind that I'm...as my mom would often say... not angry (with my country or POTUS) I'm disappointed.

1 hour ago, Jimmy Goodwood said:

I think that DJT can take some credit for Apple's decision to continue to do some manufacturing in the USA ... some companies have changed their direction ...DJT does deserve some credit. 

So, here's a good example of what I wrote.  The plain and simple fact is that the plant was initiated under the previous administration.  By your reasoning, Barrak Obama should be the one to take the credit. (and to be clear, I don't really believe the POTUS should take economic credit for everything)  Yet, DT did.  

His assertion is a lie, the extrapolation you've drawn from it is questionable ("some companies have changed direction" would like to see your notated examples on that, as I'm aware of companies that are doing more of the same they'd be doing otherwise, but now with stock buy backs, which can be easily argued that hurt the economy overall), but here you are offering him praise rather than skepticism.  Like I'm saying, either the facts matter or nothing does.

It's how DT can get away with "No Quid Pro Quo!" with his supporters even though that assertion is in direct conflict by openly admitted fact from those that run his administration.

This is what manipulation and propaganda looks like and it's not a small thing.

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1 hour ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Someone once said of Trump. The right takes Trump seriously, but not literally. The left takes Trump literally, but not seriously. 
 

Add to that the fact that it doesn’t matter at all what he says. The liberal media takes everything he says and spins and distorts it. Ironically, the liberal media is behaving just like Trump. Maybe we should take them seriously but not literally. :)

Bro, if what Trump says can't be taken literally, than nothing he says can be believed.  See the problem, for the so-called leader of the free world?  What's fine for talk-show hosts, TV personalities and wrestling  buffoons doesn't work so well in the White House.

And "liberal media"?  Grow up!  You really think Comcast and Disney are funding pinko-liberalism or a Marxist revolution?  Even the explicit "liberal" advocacy found in places like MSNBC represents the corporate wing of the Democratic party.  If Rachel Madow started advocating a Bernie Sanders program, she'd be fired in a day.

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13 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

I wish Trump were Reagan. But he’s not.Yet I am soooo glad he’s not Hilary. And here we are.

I can certainly appreciate that sort of sentiment.  It's honest.  I'm not a Hillary fan either.  Her and the DNC deserve(d) a kick in their uppity teeth. 

However, I fail to see how "an ends justifies the means" attitude should be at play.  If the POTUS is a bad actor, it's reasonable to call them out on it regardless of other circumstances.  In other words, don't cover for the guy because you think it could be worse.  Rather, think it could be better and push towards that.

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17 hours ago, The ghost of squig said:

A Trumpkin who's not  interested in the truth, who'd have thunk it.

The truth is what we make of it... 

6 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

I can certainly appreciate that sort of sentiment.  It's honest.  I'm not a Hillary fan either.  Her and the DNC deserve(d) a kick in their uppity teeth. 

However, I fail to see how "an ends justifies the means" attitude should be at play.  If the POTUS is a bad actor, it's reasonable to call them out on it regardless of other circumstances.  In other words, don't cover for the guy because you think it could be worse.  Rather, think it could be better and push towards that.

Hillary deserves jail.. so does hunter biden...  Bret Kanuagh did not deserve his good name to be pulled through the mud by lying women...  Justice demands proof and not "I heard from this person.. who heard from this person.. " etc...

To be honest, for all the head shaking, politically things are not that bad... We had millions starve because of bad government policies... people put into reeducation camps, etc... Previous generation, mass number of people actually got killed because they believed in what they believed because of people in power.  While I'm not happy with some things, but it could always be worse.

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48 minutes ago, fuzzynormal said:

Rather, think it could be better and push towards that.

Except that pushing from my side could result in a loss, in a big way, at least from my perspective. Better to make the best of what I have.
 

I think there is too much emphasis and power at the top, including SCOTUS. I think both sides generally agree. I wish more was being done to protect and empower state and local authority. That is the big waste of all this.

That said, here is what I think happened. Mind you, I have no inside info. But I have no doubt.

_____

TRUMP’S MIND: My actions and policies have contributed greatly to what’s going on at Apple in Texas. In fact, people will never know what I know about what actually would have happened here if it weren’t for me.

TRUMP’S TWEET: I just opened an Apple plant in Texas.

TRUMP’S SOCIAL MEDIA STAFF: Mr President, you do realize the left is going to go bananas over your tweet?

TRUMP: Yes.

_____

Would I have said or done as such? No. But I get it. Would I prefer a more noble approach? Yes. But I get it.

Trump does not, has not, and will not EVER receive any credit or praise from the Liberal media, regardless of what he says or does. He could denounce Christianity, embrace the climate crisis fully, and replace Pence with with a gay trans black woman and he’d still be mocked as a bafoon orange orangutan. In his mind he has to overcome this incredibly clear bias. I don’t necessarily agree with his methods, but I get it.

I also don’t think he’s a strategist, but his strategy seems to work. Again, I wish things were different, but I get it. 
 

You know the following is true. If Trump were to use Andrew’s words and call the Earth round, tomorrow’s headlines would read! “Trump and His Ingoramous Followers are Flat Earthers.” If that happened to you day in and out, how might you begin to respond? What might your tactics become? I know what I wish for, but I get it.

So is the earth round? Or a sphere? Or an oblate spheroid? One group would understand any of the above as true. The other will lose their minds over over any. And somehow, and only God knows why, Trump seems to win regardless.

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