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2 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Trump plays liberals like a fiddle. Both sad and hilarious at the same time.

You might want to read "The Paranoid Style in American Politics", for a useful description of Trump's style of politics, and that of the Republican party.  Or for a more modern update, consider the views of two "fellows" of the American Enterprise Institute -- a right-wing think tank -- who explained what the Republicans were as of 2012:

"The GOP has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition."

But I know that's music to you!  Just the chattering of libtards, right?  What global warming?  It's cold outside!  And so what if the poorest and most backward areas of country -- the ones which receive far more Federal dollars than they put in, thanks to the much richer liberal states -- are the big Trump supporters?  That just proves they're virtuous!   

Thing is, while we don't mind paying your bills (there's nothing wrong with "welfare"), it's galling to be told that we're the ones who love the nanny state, when it's the American south, Trump country, which is on the government tit.  Then again, if you believe Obama was born in Kenya and the famous server is in Ukraine, you may have difficulty distinguishing credits from debits.  Or maintaining any notion of "good government" or a decent civil society.  Ah, Jonesy....  This fantasy world of yours.  You might want to try Guatemala  or Nigeria, if you hate big government.  And take your camera!  They love log footage in hot libertarian paradises.  

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3 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Trump plays liberals like a fiddle. Both sad and hilarious at the same time.

High irony. It's you he's playing.

His own supporters.

He plays you like a fiddle, plays to your needs. You needed an alternative to liberal elites, socialism and you wanted someone to stand up to China, bringing back the blue-collar jobs in the process. In principal there is nothing wrong with this. Trump supporters are a bit like Brexit supporters, as in some had heartfelt concerns, genuine needs not being met by the current system, genuine reasons for voting "out" of a globalist system that wasn't working for them.

The tragedy is nobody really stood up for these people in a constructive way, and then social media came along and really fucked things up further, polarising and distorting the truth. Hipsters all over, in gentrified neighbourhoods, in every coffee shop, self obsessed, never looking up from their Macbooks to even notice there was a problem. Ignorance all around. A complete failure on both sides to see the point of view of the other. Divided we fall.

So when Trump comes along he fills the vacuum perfectly. Like Boris Johnson in the UK, he is patriotic, he's a fixer, he wants to get things done and unite the country, and he wants to win big. The art of the deal, not a politician, not a robot reading from a script about LGBT+ rights, someone who you could imagine actually running a factory, defending a house, or fighting off a communist invasion. Like in the good old days.

Someone you could imagine walking in through the doors of a factory like Apple's, giving a rousing speech about how the US is the most powerful country on God's green Earth, and then overnight the profit doubles and he goes for a beer with the workers done the pub.

Trump.

HAHA

Fooled by a gameshow host.

Pretty much everybody internationally laughing at you, pointing, saying "how could you be so stupid to elect this guy".

How does it feel?

I'd be angry too.

It's a massive let down. Not just for you as a Trump voter but for me as a Brit, with the close relationship and culture we share as two powerful Western economies.

We are going to fall like Rome.

Trump filled a dangerous vacuum left by Obama, and he did it 100% for self-serving reasons.

Supercharged by the internet, a faction on both sides has become radicalised. In the UK we have the Labour party's swing to a hard-left, socialist party. The Conservative centre-right has been shown the door, and we have our own far-right movement at the heart of government to contend with, along with the same kind of corruption to go with it... The Russian inception deep into business and communities.

I am in the centre. You can't be played if you arm yourself with the facts.

But it is a lonely place to be in the world today. Nobody wants to hear you.

The system is broken. People died to defend our democracies, but now we've been disenfranchised from within, locked in a Hobson's choice death spiral where no third party or independent can break through or turn things around - no evidence based or factual based running of the government is possible any more.

It is the same in the US, and it is clear even after a few years in a chaotic and corrupt self-serving government that Trump still has millions fooled. That is extraordinary to me. Where are you getting your news from? Social media is now the largest and most powerful publisher in the world. So probably from that. It was a social media phenomena that first got Trump's campaign noticed and the traditional media talking about it. It is social media that keeps him there.

If you are rich and powerful enough, and opportunistic or famous enough, as was Trump, then you can come in and pretend you are out for the workers and the patriotic, wave the flag, lie a lot, grab pussies, throw up the reality distortion field, take the Russian money, smash the government and claim the credit for Apple building computers in their existing 2013 factory.

In the UK we throw rocks at politicians at every turn, rather than nurture strong and honourable leadership, we don't encourage talent to go into public life, they earn far more at private companies, in scientific projects, running their own business, creative sector, filmmaking, you name it... We need more good people in politics but it is not happening. The tribal arguement between left and right makes a collaborative cross-party atmosphere where good ideas on both sides can be executed, impossible. We have had this for decades. Then when the system turns even more toxic and tribal we double down with aggressive questioning, asking why nothing is performing, why the health service is broken, why promises keep getting broken and on and on... until we end up with such a poor calibre of politician they end up doing severe harm to the interests of the country, then we wonder where it all went wrong. The US and UK are a democracy and we, the people, get what we deserve.

Wake the fuck up.

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Nope. You were played.

Just another distraction from the ridiculous impeachment drama. Any time wasted on this is a win. Or if nothing is said it’s a win too I guess. 
The thing is that it’s so obvious. I can’t believe it keeps working.

I didn’t read much of your post. Any of them for that matter. I don’t need the aggravation. See how easy that is? I’m gonna have a great day. If libs could just do that with Trump it would work wonders. But won’t happen.

Anyway. Take care. 

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34 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

I don’t need the aggravation. See how easy that is? I’m gonna have a great day. If libs could just do that with Trump it would work wonders.

I know it's hard to understand, but good government and the difference between reality and make believe is actually still important to some people.  Not to Trumpers, as you've made clear, but you really do need to make more allowances for people who still read and think.

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2 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Nope. You were played.

Not sure if you think Trump is playing me or whether Wikipedia is, with their brutal facts.

Then again if that muck-spout Trump set out to fool me, it wouldn't be a very good tactic, as a Brit who can't even vote in the US election...

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Just another distraction from the ridiculous impeachment drama. Any time wasted on this is a win. Or if nothing is said it’s a win too I guess.

I am shocked looking at the TV coverage of the impeachment, how partisan both sides are in a judicial setting. In a criminal case, you would have the police and witness evidence. That should be happening here in a court with an impartial judge.

Where I don't agree, is that I do think he has a case to answer.

What he is alleged to have done fits perfectly with his character and tactics overall.

Quid pro quo got Trump to where he is today.

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I didn’t read much of your post.

Well I suggest you start paying attention.

You can't argue with the facts.

Facts are not a matter of opinion or bias.

If I were to say the earth is round, you don't argue with it.

Same when I say Trump is a brighter shade of orange than a tangerine or an international embarrassment for the United States. These aren't opinions.

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18 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

If I were to say the earth is round, you don't argue with it.

Actually you are wrong. It’s a sphere. 

Edit. Although your trusted fact site Wikipedia lists it as an oblate spheroid. Point being is you can be right, and wrong all at the same time. Depending on who you ask. Sound like anyone else?

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2 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

didn’t read much of your post. Any of them for that matter. I don’t need the aggravation.

Love how you think you have it all figured out but self inflict ignorance upon yourself.

Winning strategy you have there. ?

26 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

am shocked looking at the TV coverage of the impeachment, how partisan both sides are in a judicial setting.

It’s not a judicial setting and why I think impeachment, as laid out in the constitution, is fundamentally broken.

Impeachment will never work when facts and honorable behavior are not required in the process.

Trumpers are a cult and they would rather drink the koolaid to the end then look at facts.

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34 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

Love how you think you have it all figured out but self inflict ignorance upon yourself.

Winning strategy you have there. ?

It’s not a judicial setting and why I think impeachment, as laid out in the constitution, is fundamentally broken.

Impeachment will never work when facts and honorable behavior are not required in the process.

Trumpers are a cult and they would rather drink the koolaid to the end then look at facts.

Don't bother responding to that boomer.

Total waste of time arguing with old Trumpers.

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44 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

It’s not a judicial setting and why I think impeachment, as laid out in the constitution, is fundamentally broken.

And to add, for the non-Americans, and poorly informed Americans, the Trump administration is withholding evidence and preventing key officials from testifying.  The House could, in theory, imprison Trump administration officials who don't show up, but that would precipitate a crisis, which they're not willing to test, for the simple  reason that nobody knows what will happen when Trump flat out refuses to obey the law or leave office.

The actual "trial" takes place in the Senate, should the House vote to impeach, but it's not a trial in the usual sense.  None of this is.  It's a political process, because according to some in the Justice Department (it's not settled law) the president can't be charged criminally while in office.  Otherwise, Trump would  likely already have been charged with bribery, extortion, tax fraud, perjury, obstruction of justice and violation of election laws.  There's also a distinct possibility he could be charged with treason, though it's unlikely such charges would be brought, for political reasons.

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16 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

If he's impeached and no longer President, can he be charged then (in criminal courts)?

Yes.  He's fair game, and could end up in jail, though there's a statute of limitations which he can run out on at least some charges if he's in office long enough. 

Civil charges are almost certain, New York State is already working on it, but whether he ends up facing criminal charges in state or Federal courts remains to be seen.  It comes down to whether they'll have the cojones to do it, for an ex-president and his age.  This is one reason he'll do anything to get re-elected.

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