Jump to content

Hey Nikon - Where's the Z6 ProRes RAW Update?


Andrew Reid
 Share

Recommended Posts

A message for Nikon (and particularly Canon, and all DSLR/Mirrorless manufacturers):

Guys, seriously? Are you aware that there exists something called "The Internet"? It's pretty cool and thanks to things like "blogs" or "social media" and tons of other "review sites" and "forums" the community of professional and enthusiasts have information in mere seconds at their fingertips.

You might want to impress us with flashy press releases, amazing specs, and blah blah blah, but nowadays we know better.

We know when you're charging us way too much money. We know when your specs do not deliver. We know when you're simply B.S. us.

So, quit it. Stop it. Look at what Blackmagic is doing, look at what Sigma is doing. Instead of removing features they know we want (in order to push us to buy higher-end products) they simply deliver what we want.

Read that again: "They deliver what the customers want". It's Capitalism at its best. And nowadays with so much information around we know what we want.

In my personal case, I aaaaaalmost bought a Nikon Z6, until I saw the lens lineup situation, and the promised RAW update situation (note that I *might* still buy one now that some decent lens adaptors for other brands are popping up, and once Nikon decides to create a firmware update to write RAW directly to XQD), but I'm full of Canon glass (they know they got me by the balls with all that investment, which is why their lackbuster attempt with the EOS RP) but I'm definitely starting to see Blackmagic (BRAW is truly awesome and revolutionary) and even some of Sony's offering with nicer eyes, specially now that I can adapt my Canon EF glass to them...

So please, stop treating us like ignorant children and show a little more respect and appreciation for your customer base. We feed you and pay your bills. The market today is not what it was 10 years ago. So if you want to be successful long-term stop making these stupid decisions and start delivering equipment with 4K 120fps, global shutter, higher dynamic range, RAW to a local card or the very least an external SSD (and looks at BRAW, is licensing-free), decent audio inputs and headphone jack, zebra stripes, focus peaking, fast auto-focus (for those who need it), simple manual controls, a nice and simple touch-base interface, a flexible LCD (like on the EOS RP), and make it all under US$2,000 and you will not know what to do with all the money you will make and all the market share you will steal from your competitors.

It doesn't take a genius to figure all this out (and yes, I know there are costs associated with all this but you need to look at the bigger picture here, I'm a computer engineer by trade and know a thing or two about sales and marketing as well, having worked with many top-billing companies, so I know a thing or two of what goes on behind the scenes).

So, thank you for reading,

- A deserving customer (or maybe soon an ex-customer, or a possible new customer, your choice)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No one from Nikon owes anyone anything at all. People don't own a Nikon Z camera but still comment and ask for cine specs in the Z series for under $2K.

Blackmagic is great but with the P4K announcement we still have to wait weeks or months for delivery. 

Nikon has always said summer / later this year for the 12 bit RAW video update. 

The Eye AF was the improvement they promised and this next one will be the same. 

It's tough to wait but it will happen.  

I specific firmware release date would help.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators
1 minute ago, Skip77 said:

Nikon has always said summer / later this year for the 12 bit RAW video update. 

Did they? Could have fooled me. I don't think they said anything as specific... They just announced it, then fucked off.

Atomos said NAB "but"...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Members
4 hours ago, Eric Calabros said:

I guess there are some problems with big events licenses.. in a football match, if you are a still shooter, you only have right to shoot still. With a still camera capable of raw video all around them, broadcast guys and their license holder companies will be mad. I hear they even see short burst of A9 20fps raw as a threat. 

For tightly controlled events like football, its not necessarily the capture side that is the issue but there are strict controls on delivery so you are not allowed to send a series of still frames that could be re-constitued as a video and there is a fixed upper limit of how many images per half you can send.

Even with those constraints in place it is not unusual to get a tap on the shoulder from an official if you have live view on on the back of a DSLR.  I even had an official threatening to have me removed from a Champions League final because I was using live view to set up my remote camera behind the goal as he thought I was videoing the warm up!

Thats the prime concern with mirrorless like the A9 in that they can't tell if someone is videoing or not. Not that it is a big issue with the A9 as I never saw anyone using one full stop !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have to rewatch this again to see if they are any clearer about a date.  This is a great video about Nikon RAW if you haven't seen it. 

https://livestream.com/accounts/22293757/events/8598177/videos/189750242

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

"Nikon Z6 filmmaker's kit is first camera to shoot 12bit RAW"

"When?"

"Later this year........... Proooobably"

"So is it available to buy now"

"ABSOLUTELY! ON DEALER'S SHELVES NOW!!"

rep.jpg

This is an interesting thread.

Have you reached out to Atomos or Nikon with your connections?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In regards to the future RAW a huge problem with it's future is that the Ninja V has horrible audio. Seen tests and it's very bad. So to get RAW with decent audio when it's available you will have to pony up for a $1500 Shogun 7. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Did they? Could have fooled me. I don't think they said anything as specific... They just announced it, then fucked off.

Atomos said NAB "but"...

Do you think we Nikon Z6 owner jumped to soon to Nikon?  I haven't looked up the S1 limitations but Nikon RAW could be great when it comes out. 

Is it worth jumping over to the S1 ?  

It would be great to get your opinion on this.

21 minutes ago, Geoff CB said:

In regards to the future RAW a huge problem with it's future is that the Ninja V has horrible audio. Seen tests and it's very bad. So to get RAW with decent audio when it's available you will have to pony up for a $1500 Shogun 7. 

 Audio would be picked up just like you would for the Z6. Like most you have a separate audio set up. 

No need for the $1500 Shogun 7

Link to comment
Share on other sites

At this point, any camera that can do internal/external raw and have variable NDs inside will be worth the money. 

Yes, a lot of people use mirrorless cameras because they are cheaper and more affordable (and there are a ton of options for those users). But I also think there are plenty of people who would buy an S1H-sized camera for $6k+ if it included internal raw, internal NDs, timecode out, and all the nice EVA-1 codecs.

No need to cannibalize other cameras - just charge more and they both make money no matter which one people buy. I'm guessing you would see a lot of independent doc filmmakers, journalists, traveling cinematographers, etc picking up the mirrorless-sized version. I know I would personally love this. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

At this point, any camera that can do internal/external raw and have variable NDs inside will be worth the money. 

Yes, a lot of people use mirrorless cameras because they are cheaper and more affordable (and there are a ton of options for those users). But I also think there are plenty of people who would buy an S1H-sized camera for $6k+ if it included internal raw, internal NDs, timecode out, and all the nice EVA-1 codecs.

No need to cannibalize other cameras - just charge more and they both make money no matter which one people buy. I'm guessing you would see a lot of independent doc filmmakers, journalists, traveling cinematographers, etc picking up the mirrorless-sized version. I know I would personally love this. 

 

That camera you describe does not exist even at $6k in a smaller form factor like the Z6 or S1, S1H.  

I like the Atomos / Nikon combination if the team up helps us get RAW 4K. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

That camera you describe does not exist even at $6k in a smaller form factor like the Z6 or S1, S1H.  

I like the Atomos / Nikon combination if the team up helps us get RAW 4K. 

That is correct. That's my point - it does not yet exist, but I think it would be popular. 

I think manufacturers leave out specifications from their mirrorless line in order to protect their higher-end cinema line, which are all larger cameras. Even the smaller cinema cameras, like the C100 or FS5, have either not updated into 4K (C100) or haven't really been updated in 4 years (FS5).

This leaves consumers who want/need 10-bit, 4K, 60fps, slow motion, etc with either a mirrorless camera in the $2k range (S1, S1H, GH5, XT3) but missing tons of features OR a large cinema camera (the smallest being the EVA-1) in the $6-7k range that is too big for what they want or make. 

--

With that said, why not just take the specifications of something like an EVA-1 and stick it in an S1H body? Including internal NDs and 10-bit codecs. Yes, that would take sales away from the EVA-1 (maybe?), so just charge more. 

The connection between size  and price seems like a total moot point. 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

With that said, why not just take the specifications of something like an EVA-1 and stick it in an S1H body? Including internal NDs and 10-bit codecs. Yes, that would take sales away from the EVA-1 (maybe?), so just charge more. 

The connection between size  and price seems like a total moot point.

I don't think company's are going to get away with charging more in the future. The PK4 has changed that forever. If it had a better internal battery, a tilt screen, IBIS, and better C-AF  and you use C Fast cards well it would be pretty unbelievable. And how much more would all that Really add to the cost. I would say a thousand dollars or less. And you would have a compact, no need to hang stuff on it, for the most part, camera.

And you have to figure that the PK4 really only cost 995 Dollars if you didn't want the Studio Resolve, which down the road I bet will be an option. So $1995 out the door. No 5,000, 6,000 Dollar stuff going on.

It's the same with this Sigma FP. They aren't going to be able to charge crazy money for it. It is a basic as hell camera with a Sigma name on it. It is not going to be that much money, and if it is it will die a Very quick death. Look at the Sony RX0 mk II. It is 800 dollars, and it is probably worth that much, but has Anyone on here even bought one?? The Osmo Pocket, Osmo Action have sort of killed it for less than half the price. Sure it is not a 1" sensor, but what the hell. That doesn't seem to matter as much anymore. Times have changed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators
6 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

In regards to the future RAW a huge problem with it's future is that the Ninja V has horrible audio. Seen tests and it's very bad. So to get RAW with decent audio when it's available you will have to pony up for a $1500 Shogun 7. 

There needs to be some sort of external DAC for all these things.

Or rather external A/D.

For example a USB C mic adapter would be good for something like the Ninja or a mirrorless cam... bypass all that noisy analogy circuitry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

For example a USB C mic adapter would be good for something like the Ninja or a mirrorless cam... bypass all that noisy analogy circuitry.

That's what I've been saying: someone should make a camera that records audio from a USB audio interface. Lossless multi channel digital audio directly from the quality preamps of your choice, no post-syncing required.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/15/2019 at 2:13 PM, Jonesy Jones said:

Regarding the Red patented compressed raw problem. Could it be as simple as just not marketing it as raw? Instead calling it a “dynamic codec” or something. 

Would be interesting if @CaptainHook or someone with real world knowledge of this could chime in on what make compressed raw an infringement.

i bet the line is blurry. 

The RED patents require compression above 6X, if you are below that you are OK.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lets just give a call to magic latern boys!

Official companys are the worst! I jumped the nikon waggon only for that "12bit raw" thing...
Im just finding out it was a joke!? 

Lame...

plus no real mountZ wideangle 1.8 to work with gimbal!?
Geee I might just jump back to FF 8bit a73...

Please ML help us out! raw to the masses!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...