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androidlad

X-T3 F-Log vs. HLG comparison

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From what I have seen, the HLG looks like it has a lot of appeal to me.

It would be great to go and shoot some and have a play...but my XT3 is on it's way back to Fujifilm UK as the micro USB port has stopped working :(

One question for HLG users and that is low-light. I am no expert in these things but read somewhere recently that Flog was not the best option in low-light conditions and Eterna 4K a better option. I imagine that it would be the same for HLG?

I have been shooting video for quite a few years, but 1080 until the XT3 came out and very limited chance to play with Flog, never mind HLG.

Off to try and find some videos on Flog workflow right now (Premiere and Lumetri user) so when my camera is fixed, I can actually do some real work!

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6 hours ago, MrSMW said:

From what I have seen, the HLG looks like it has a lot of appeal to me.

It would be great to go and shoot some and have a play...but my XT3 is on it's way back to Fujifilm UK as the micro USB port has stopped working :(

One question for HLG users and that is low-light. I am no expert in these things but read somewhere recently that Flog was not the best option in low-light conditions and Eterna 4K a better option. I imagine that it would be the same for HLG?

I have been shooting video for quite a few years, but 1080 until the XT3 came out and very limited chance to play with Flog, never mind HLG.

Off to try and find some videos on Flog workflow right now (Premiere and Lumetri user) so when my camera is fixed, I can actually do some real work!

I have actually used Flog in low-light with success and failed at HLG - HLG got UGLY in low light. FLog did not. Plus having the 10BIt already means you dont have to overexpose your log footage... I have done test after test and FLog is still superior

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Some testing then methinks...

Same subject, same conditions; Eterna 4K vs Flog vs HLG.

Outdoors, bright sunshine, my main environment for weddings here in France and then a low light test.

Quality of result vs workflow...

Need my camera back from Fujifilm first!

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1 hour ago, DanielVranic said:

I have actually used Flog in low-light with success and failed at HLG - HLG got UGLY in low light. FLog did not. Plus having the 10BIt already means you dont have to overexpose your log footage... I have done test after test and FLog is still superior

How is FLog better in low light? Can you show an example? I haven't seen that in my tests so far. I suspect that the only difference is HLG favors highlight range by claiming a higher ISO (1000 vs 640 in FLog). Using my tried and true method of exposing based on what I want in the image, instead of from a light meter, I haven't seen a difference in low light performance.

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1 hour ago, KnightsFan said:

How is FLog better in low light? Can you show an example? I haven't seen that in my tests so far. I suspect that the only difference is HLG favors highlight range by claiming a higher ISO (1000 vs 640 in FLog). Using my tried and true method of exposing based on what I want in the image, instead of from a light meter, I haven't seen a difference in low light performance.

F-Log and HLG don't have that much of a difference in low light, however, HLG has an edge in terms of detail preservation and finer noise pattern - HLG makes full use of 0-1024 code value, while F-log throws away 0-95 (raised black level).

 

42 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

F-log uses less NR than eterna. Could be good or bad depending on your taste. Usually I'd rather have the ability to NR in post to reduce issues that usually come with in camera NR

NR is controlled by two NR settings, regular noise reduction and interframe noise reduction, with -4 and "off" setting there's no difference in NR between F-log and film sim/HLG.

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10 minutes ago, androidlad said:

F-Log and HLG don't have that much of a difference in low light, however, HLG has an edge in terms of detail preservation and finer noise pattern - HLG makes full use of 0-1024 code value, while F-log throws away 0-95 (raised black level).

 

NR is controlled by two NR settings, regular noise reduction and interframe noise reduction, with -4 and "off" setting there's no difference in NR between F-log and film sim/HLG.

Are you sure? Its a different system but for example Sony's S-log NR is different than the regular profiles, less ghosting, which might imply less NR.

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Hi all. Loving this conversation. Just got the X-T3, switching from Canon. I wanted to shoot in hlg, but noticed the ISO 1000, is that a hardline or is there anyway to drop it lower? I have a variable Nd filter if need be, but would love to not have it natively that.

P.S. yes I know this is a year old thread, but it's the only place I can find that's mentioned the iso 1000. 

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On 5/8/2019 at 3:14 PM, Jordan R said:

Hi all. Loving this conversation. Just got the X-T3, switching from Canon. I wanted to shoot in hlg, but noticed the ISO 1000, is that a hardline or is there anyway to drop it lower? I have a variable Nd filter if need be, but would love to not have it natively that.

P.S. yes I know this is a year old thread, but it's the only place I can find that's mentioned the iso 1000. 

Take a look at the original post, ISO 1000 is explained in detail.

It can't and shouldn't be dropped lower.

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Thanks for the samples and LUTS. Re: Workflow (Apologies if this has been asked before) When using 'Davinci YRGB Color managed' in the Color Management tab in Resolve which version of rec.2020 should be selected for 'Input Color Space' (to match the X-T3's HLG)? There's a few different options:

Rec.2020 (Scene)
Rec.2020 Gamma 2.4
Rec.2020 ARIB STD-B67

Or would you recommend using the 'Color Space Transform' FX node instead?

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On 5/21/2019 at 8:56 PM, timondeks said:

Thanks for the samples and LUTS. Re: Workflow (Apologies if this has been asked before) When using 'Davinci YRGB Color managed' in the Color Management tab in Resolve which version of rec.2020 should be selected for 'Input Color Space' (to match the X-T3's HLG)? There's a few different options:

Rec.2020 (Scene)
Rec.2020 Gamma 2.4
Rec.2020 ARIB STD-B67

Or would you recommend using the 'Color Space Transform' FX node instead?

The Input color space is the camera color space :

Rec.2020 (Scene) for F-log
Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 for film simulations
Rec.2020 ARIB STD-B67 for HLG

 

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On 3/1/2019 at 5:41 PM, androidlad said:

F-Log and HLG don't have that much of a difference in low light, however, HLG has an edge in terms of detail preservation and finer noise pattern - HLG makes full use of 0-1024 code value, while F-log throws away 0-95 (raised black level).

 

NR is controlled by two NR settings, regular noise reduction and interframe noise reduction, with -4 and "off" setting there's no difference in NR between F-log and film sim/HLG.

Hi there

Could I ask the point of this (throwing away levels)? Is there any science behind it?

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11 hours ago, BrunoCH said:

The Input color space is the camera color space :

Rec.2020 (Scene) for F-log
Rec.709 Gamma 2.4 for film simulations
Rec.2020 ARIB STD-B67 for HLG

 

Thanks for clarifying that BrunoCH

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