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Andrew Reid

Nikon Z6 features 4K N-LOG, 10bit HDMI output and 120fps 1080p

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39 minutes ago, IronFilm said:


You still can't buy a BMPCC OG for $500 new today!

Even secondhand they're often selling for that price or more. 

Yes its crazy ! Not so long ago, it was still selling brand new for around 1000€, while the bmpcc4k was at 1300€ !
 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

A quick check on cameranu.nl

In the Netherlands the Z6 kit with 24-70 and adapter is 2900€. The difference from when I bought it is 150€. 

Right now there is a 400€ cashback deal on the Z6 with lens and adapter. Marketing would be my guess.

The Z6 body alone is 1999€. 

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11 hours ago, Geoff_L said:

Yes its crazy ! Not so long ago, it was still selling brand new for around 1000€, while the bmpcc4k was at 1300€ !
 


If the BMPCC had stayed at $500 RRP new (instead of being a very short lived sale) then now by late 2019 I'm sure we'd be able to buy an OG BMPCC for the EOSHD Cheap Camera competition! 

Sadly it is not to be 😞
 

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:


If the BMPCC had stayed at $500 RRP new (instead of being a very short lived sale) then now by late 2019 I'm sure we'd be able to buy an OG BMPCC for the EOSHD Cheap Camera competition! 

Sadly it is not to be 😞
 

But I keep the idea for a next challenge, when the og pocket will cost less than 200 (OK, could take years...) 😄 !

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Great Z7 footage - 

 

On 7/7/2019 at 8:20 AM, Geoff_L said:

Yes true, and economics is a field I know nothing about so I won't presume anything ahah 😄
But still, in your examples, canon and fujifilm are deliberate sales, cashback etc. Here, with Nikon, it is just the market prices going down or some shops that deliberately cut the price in a surprising way...
But as you said, maybe the point is to establish a users basis, pushing the adoption of existing Nikon dslr users, and quickly move to a 2nd generation that will be really above competition (which the z6 already is in a lot of areas).

Anyway, this is good news for us customers 😄
Oh, and we can add to your examples the flash sales of blackmagic some years ago, with a pocket cinema camera almost sold for half its regular price (if I remember !) ! We can dream the same thing with the bmpcc4k...

Except Nikon resellers are not allowed to drop the price of Nikon gear below set retail prices. This includes the Z6 and Z7.  Nikon controls this just like Honda controls the price it's cars can be sold at independently owned Honda dealerships. 

Everyone looked around when you first said the sky was falling with the Z7 and Z6 and you either lied or got caught in a mistaken comment that wasn't true.  I looked at eBay use, eBay in the UK, resale Facebook groups and no one is sailing the Z7or Z6 for the prices you claim. 

And now another post with a dig at Nikon and it's falling prices.

I think you're what we call a "paid market influencer". You're paid to keep making these comments about the Nikon Z series to you erode consumer confidence. 

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Man, German pricing is wild.
A Z6, FTZ adapter, 24-70 F4 and that wonderful 50 F1.8 combined for less than 2500 euro.
Or leave the FTZ adapter and end up below 2400...

I was looking for a lightweight hybrid (Lumix S1 therefore no option). No way I am gonna support cripplin' Canon. So it went between the a7iii and the Z6...
Seeing the nikon AF improve so drastically after the last firmware, with the promised external RAW and now this epic discount: count me in as a first time Nikon owner.

Now to hoping the small Samyang AF primes don't take too long...

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9 hours ago, Timotheus said:

Man, German pricing is wild.
A Z6, FTZ adapter, 24-70 F4 and that wonderful 50 F1.8 combined for less than 2500 euro.
Or leave the FTZ adapter and end up below 2400...

I was looking for a lightweight hybrid (Lumix S1 therefore no option). No way I am gonna support cripplin' Canon. So it went between the a7iii and the Z6...
Seeing the nikon AF improve so drastically after the last firmware, with the promised external RAW and now this epic discount: count me in as a first time Nikon owner.

Now to hoping the small Samyang AF primes don't take too long...

Great ! Switzerland prices are even wilder ! Did you see my previous link ? Z6 + 24-70 the same price as the Fuji xt3 +18-55 ! Crazy...

For lenses, don't know if you would like to go the nikon G adapted route, but I loved their 1.8G prime line-up ; at least they are really good for photography : not too expensive, really lightweight, good quality... plastic made and not great for manual video focusing though.

I really liked the 20, 24, 50 and 85 ! Great kit. I think they may be too "clinical" for some, depending on what you want as output.

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2 hours ago, Geoff_L said:

Great ! Switzerland prices are even wilder ! Did you see my previous link ? Z6 + 24-70 the same price as the Fuji xt3 +18-55 ! Crazy...

But if you're ordering them into the EU, you'll pay VAT and the end price is more or less the same.

I'm having my eyes on how the TechArt adapter story develops, especially the stacking of the Z-to-E + E-to-M mount adapters. 

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16 minutes ago, Phil A said:

But if you're ordering them into the EU, you'll pay VAT and the end price is more or less the same.

I'm having my eyes on how the TechArt adapter story develops, especially the stacking of the Z-to-E + E-to-M mount adapters. 

Yes you are right, it is more interesting for people like me that leaves at the boundary, because we can still benefit from the warranty by directly bringing the camera to the store, for example at Geneva (that, of course, only if there is a big price difference after having add VAT). I believe some camera brands refuse to repair cameras bought in Switzerland.

And yes, with current rebates, you can find it at more or less 2000€, which is the same as Switzerland + VAT I guess (https://audiophil-foto.de/de/shop/kameras/nikon/nikon-z6-z-24-7040-s_5688_559). Same debate as with grey market, which becomes less interesting when you add VAT...
 

I'm also waiting to see how it works with the TechArt, as I'm debating between buying the Z6 again or wait for a S1 (have to save more...). I want to use certain Canon lenses, so I need to check the stacking of MC-11>>TechArt>>Z ! Anyway, good times to hunt for a camera !!

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On 7/7/2019 at 10:07 AM, Geoff_L said:

Maybe Andrew was thinking about the quick collapse of prices, which could reflect difficulties for Nikon to sell them ?

The camera cost around 3000€ (between 2800 and 3000, depending on stores) with kit lens and adapter, back in November when it was released here (and when I bought it). Now, you can buy a brand new one with kit lens for around 1800€. In the meantime, the direct competitors do not move a lot : A7 iii, which is older, is still around 2300€, body only, and with summer sales it cost around 1900/2000€, still body only ;  while the EOS R still cost 2500€, body + adapter, and 2000/2100€ with summer rebates.

In the end, no matter why it collapses like that, as Andrew said the good thing is it can be grabbed for a pretty great price (which will be better on top of that with the coming firmware !)

I think Nikon is meeting same problems as before with Nikon 1.

A bit too much aimed at consumers, pricey lenses, not pro enough.

We enthusiasts all know the Z6 is a very capable camera, but I don't think it's selling very well.

Nikon 1 was a total failure by the end.

Is full frame alone and fancy specs enough to stop Z series from a similarly miserable fate?

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11 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I think Nikon is meeting same problems as before with Nikon 1.

A bit too much aimed at consumers, pricey lenses, not pro enough.

We enthusiasts all know the Z6 is a very capable camera, but I don't think it's selling very well.

Nikon 1 was a total failure by the end.

Is full frame alone and fancy specs enough to stop Z series from a similarly miserable fate?

Do we ever get global sales reports or only from Japan? I don't think any full frame mirrorless is selling well right now outside the A7III. 

S1 sales did not take off and I think Canon and Nikon total sales have gone up in Japan.

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17 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I think Nikon is meeting same problems as before with Nikon 1.

A bit too much aimed at consumers, pricey lenses, not pro enough.

We enthusiasts all know the Z6 is a very capable camera, but I don't think it's selling very well.

Nikon 1 was a total failure by the end.

Is full frame alone and fancy specs enough to stop Z series from a similarly miserable fate?

I think they need the actual release of the ProResRAW update to happen pretty soon.

Probably by their own traditional measure of "how are we doing against Canon?" then Nikon might well be satisfied as the Z series has largely received a better critical response at least than the R series though who knows what that translates to in sales.

They can't live in that duopoly vacuum any more though.

In the time its taken them to not get that update out, Panasonic have moved the game on significantly on the S series and Sigma have given the whole L mount situation a big boost not just with the FP announcement but with the lens announcements. 

This is Sigma's lineup for release by the end of the year 

  • 20mm F1.4 Art
  • 24mm F1.4 Art
  • 35mm F1.4 Art
  • 50mm F1.4 Art
  • 85mm F1.4 Art
  • 135mm F1.8 Art

Where are Nikon's native Z lenses to match that lineup and at what cost ?

The politics of the L mount alliance probably means that those lenses might remain L mount exclusives for a while as well.

Obviously, ProResRAW isn't going to move the needle any for sales to stills people but if nothing else it will get the Z series a re-boost in terms of attention with all the YouTube videos from the "Hey whats happening, its your boy Fred Knows Zed" bros.

The TechArt adapter should have been the icing on the cake for the Z but without the actual release of ProResRAW its still all a bit "jam tomorrow" for a lot of video people.

I don't know which end the issue is coming from thats delayed it but I have to say Atomos have also not released two of the three AtomX modules for the Ninja V yet either.

 

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On 7/14/2019 at 7:40 AM, BTM_Pix said:

I think they need the actual release of the ProResRAW update to happen pretty soon.

Probably by their own traditional measure of "how are we doing against Canon?" then Nikon might well be satisfied as the Z series has largely received a better critical response at least than the R series though who knows what that translates to in sales.

They can't live in that duopoly vacuum any more though.

In the time its taken them to not get that update out, Panasonic have moved the game on significantly on the S series and Sigma have given the whole L mount situation a big boost not just with the FP announcement but with the lens announcements. 

This is Sigma's lineup for release by the end of the year 

  • 20mm F1.4 Art
  • 24mm F1.4 Art
  • 35mm F1.4 Art
  • 50mm F1.4 Art
  • 85mm F1.4 Art
  • 135mm F1.8 Art

Where are Nikon's native Z lenses to match that lineup and at what cost ?

The politics of the L mount alliance probably means that those lenses might remain L mount exclusives for a while as well.

Obviously, ProResRAW isn't going to move the needle any for sales to stills people but if nothing else it will get the Z series a re-boost in terms of attention with all the YouTube videos from the "Hey whats happening, its your boy Fred Knows Zed" bros.

The TechArt adapter should have been the icing on the cake for the Z but without the actual release of ProResRAW its still all a bit "jam tomorrow" for a lot of video people.

I don't know which end the issue is coming from thats delayed it but I have to say Atomos have also not released two of the three AtomX modules for the Ninja V yet either.

 

I'm waiting on the 12 bit RAW 4K update for the Z6 before I buy the Ninja V and this update will either keep my with Nikon or I will move to the P4K or S1. 

On 7/14/2019 at 7:40 AM, BTM_Pix said:

 

In the time its taken them to not get that update out, Panasonic have moved the game on significantly on the S series and Sigma have given the whole L mount situation a big boost not just with the FP announcement but with the lens announcements. 

 

 

Word is that the S1 is not selling very well either. Is this true as of July - ?

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44 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

I'm waiting on the 12 bit RAW 4K update for the Z6 before I buy the Ninja V and this update will either keep my with Nikon or I will move to the P4K or S1.

Oh, I promise  you I am in the same boat ahah. Waiting for the Z6 raw update to maybe buy one again. But the S1 ticks a lot of boxes compared to Nikon, Sony and Canon equivalent, as I place IBIS and body sturdiness above, for example, AF (I see the Z6 as a smaller and lighter S1, with better AF but less impressive IBIS, so just a matter of priorities - in any case I favor it a lot compared to Canon and Sony offering). It even could make a good combo next year with the Sigma FP. But tomorrow announcement  from Sony could make a big difference ; even if their current offering does not interest me, I am really curious to hear about it. I also read 1 or 2 persons on forums or sonyalpharumors website praying for a A7SIII announcement tomorrow, as it could, according to them, force S1 prices to be lowered in order to  compete (not sure if it is in Panasonic habits to do so) !
 

44 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

Word is that the S1 is not selling very well either. Is this true as of July - ? 

Reminds me of what I saw with the GH5-S : few reviews, but a lot of raving ones (mostly from filmmakers if I remember), and a lot of complaints concerning the lack of IBIS (and AF). For the S1 : few reviews but owners seem to love it, especially with the current updates ; on the other hand, some complaints concerning AF being behind the competition...

Maybe the VLog upgrade will help them selling the camera (as the Z6 raw updates could be a good boost) !

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24 minutes ago, Geoff_L said:

Oh, I promise  you I am in the same boat ahah. Waiting for the Z6 raw update to maybe buy one again. But the S1 ticks a lot of boxes compared to Nikon, Sony and Canon equivalent, as I place IBIS and body sturdiness above, for example, AF (I see the Z6 as a smaller and lighter S1, with better AF but less impressive IBIS, so just a matter of priorities - in any case I favor it a lot compared to Canon and Sony offering). It even could make a good combo next year with the Sigma FP. But tomorrow announcement  from Sony could make a big difference ; even if their current offering does not interest me, I am really curious to hear about it. I also read 1 or 2 persons on forums or sonyalpharumors website praying for a A7SIII announcement tomorrow, as it could, according to them, force S1 prices to be lowered in order to  compete (not sure if it is in Panasonic habits to do so) !
 

Reminds me of what I saw with the GH5-S : few reviews, but a lot of raving ones (mostly from filmmakers if I remember), and a lot of complaints concerning the lack of IBIS (and AF). For the S1 : few reviews but owners seem to love it, especially with the current updates ; on the other hand, some complaints concerning AF being behind the competition...

Maybe the VLog upgrade will help them selling the camera (as the Z6 raw updates could be a good boost) !

If Nikon releases 12 bit RAW pro res then the Z6 resale value will go up.  I like the S1 on color science and either way I won't be sad to keep the Z6.  I'm also looking at which camera has the best cinematic quality for video. Which one treats highlights the best and if we can tell the difference between the two cameras. 

PR for the S1 and Z6 doesn't do well for all Sony's fan base on You Tube.

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3 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

PR for the S1 and Z6 doesn't do well for all Sony's fan base on You Tube.

Yes, I found the Gerald Undone not very impartial, despite the perceive technical quality of the video (some of his fans call him "teacher" !). It may just be me, but I felt he was emphasize a little more on the advantages of the A7III, or maybe on the things the S1 does less right, while not doing the same on the opposite way. I really have to watch it again, it may be my memory, but that's my feeling from my watching. For example, the IBIS, from all we can see for now, seems miles and miles ahead on the S1, and I believe he passes quite quickly on this... which is strange, because everybody is raging when IBIS is lacking on a camera, or not efficient. Anyway, Z6 + S1 are great horses to produce beautiful images and get the job done !

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42 minutes ago, Skip77 said:

Word is that the S1 is not selling very well either. Is this true as of July - ?

Judging by the discounts and cash back incentives on virtually all of the brands, I don't think any of them are having a particularly bumper time sales wise.

The problem for Nikon is that the L mount is building momentum through the upgrade of the S1, the announcement of the FP, the availability of the new Sigma lenses, the release of the S1H, the upcoming Sigma FF Foveon announcement and I suspect the new Leica SL isn't far off being announced now either.

None of that makes the Z6 a bad camera of course but Nikon need to wrestle some of that momentum back and a statement on when the upgrade is actually going to happen would be a start.

There's probably never been a better time NOT to buy a full frame camera though as within a few months Sony might be along with something that could blow everything out of the water, the Sigma FP might just be the full frame version of the original Pocket Cinema camera or the S1H might tick every box of being a full frame GH5s, or... if none of those things come to pass then the deflating prices of the S1 and Z6 etc will have no doubt continued anyway and they will become fantastic bargains, particularly used.

 

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