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Canon EOS M50 - an accidental 4K Digital Bolex


Andrew Reid
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8 hours ago, kye said:

For me it's a case of starting with what is best for the subject matter of the material, and what the film conventions are, and then working back from there with the minimum equipment.  I agree with you completely - just because IS means you can get gimbal-like smoothness doesn't mean every shot should be a gimbal shot.

I think I use the IS to be able to get the same kind of shots that those with tripods typically tend to do, but just not needing the setup time and hassle.  Ie, static shots, pans (if there's a landscape or something larger than fits in the frame), or to follow an object (a person or animal).

It's interesting that the C100mkII is smaller, it doesn't look that much smaller unfortunately :( although it's hard to find a good picture.

canon-C100-and-C100-Mark-II1.jpg

I guess that what I'm asking for is somewhere between the XC10 and the C100.   In terms of adding features, it's more likely to be a reduction from the C100 - a C50 perhaps? - although I'm not convinced that the increased size of the C100 sensor must mean that the camera has to be as large as the C100.

The argument that a C100 isn't too large because larger cameras exist is just silly.  It's like saying that the truck that is too large to fit in your garage does fit because road trains exist.

I'm right there with you!

Well this video has both next to each other. Overall with the handle on both are close to the same but when you remove the handle, which you still have a mike port on the body and push down the viewfinder it really isn't much bigger than a FF Canon 1DX DSLR. With the hand grip off on that picture it would be even smaller than the 1DX. And on that picture it doesn't even have the handle taken off. They can get pretty amazingly small if you want to put them on a Gimbal. That bottom picture shows how crazy small they can get.

 

Compare.jpg

newoldx.jpg

EOS-C100-Mark-II-core-lens1-BCR.jpg

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@tweak there aren’t too many ML Raw users around, so I remember the few of us.

It’s funny I almost bought a GH5 last summer... actually I did order an open box model but an hour later I looked at footage from my 5D3 and I cancelled the order.

A FF Canon mirrorless is very exciting to me as well, especially if you follow the rumor sites. Almost every rumor has stated that it is video oriented... what that means to Canon... 

But I am really kinda hoping that they will sneak RawLite into it... even if it’s only 1080p, I’d be floored.

Between the FF mirrorless and the supposed new cinema line, I am hoping for the best. With all of their faults, I still enjoy the build and form factor of Canon cameras.

In the meantime, the M50 seems like it could be a fun camera to toy around with.

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3 minutes ago, mercer said:

@tweak there aren’t too many ML Raw users around, so I remember the few of us.

It’s funny I almost bought a GH5 last summer... actually I did order an open box model but an hour later I looked at footage from my 5D3 and I cancelled the order.

A FF Canon mirrorless is very exciting to me as well, especially if you follow the rumor sites. Almost every rumor has stated that it is video oriented... what that means to Canon... 

But I am really kinda hoping that they will sneak RawLite into it... even if it’s only 1080p, I’d be floored.

Between the FF mirrorless and the supposed new cinema line, I am hoping for the best. With all of their faults, I still enjoy the build and form factor of Canon cameras.

In the meantime, the M50 seems like it could be a fun camera to toy around with.

I love canon products. If they could deliver even good 4K (10-bit?) (with an option to shoot open gate :) ) on that FF mirrorless I'd be stoked. It would certainly streamline the equipment I need to carry.

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1 hour ago, kye said:

Only 

lol - the 1DX is HUGE!!

I think we live in different universes!!

1935701226_ScreenShot2018-05-30at10_16_44pm.thumb.png.baac5cf94bd8e90adef12d2a7ff83b66.png

As he said, he’s an old ENG guy, to him the C100 looks like a toy. If you want really small, pick up an SL2, now that thing is tiny. But for the features you’re looking for, if you want to stay with Canon, you may have to go bigger. And honestly, without the top handle, and shooting handheld, I don’t think the C100 would draw any more attention than your XC10.

2 minutes ago, tweak said:

I love canon products. If they could deliver even good 4K (10-bit?) (with an option to shoot open gate :) ) on that FF mirrorless I'd be stoked. It would certainly streamline the equipment I need to carry.

Yeah I would love something like that too. As I said, right now I’m happy with the 5D3, but if Canon were to think out of the box like they did with the C200 and introduce some kick ass video features in this new FF mirrorless or the new cine camera, at a reasonable price point, I would definitely consider it. Hell I don’t even want the 4K, so I should be easy to impress. 

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1 hour ago, kye said:

Only 

lol - the 1DX is HUGE!!

I think we live in different universes!!

1935701226_ScreenShot2018-05-30at10_16_44pm.thumb.png.baac5cf94bd8e90adef12d2a7ff83b66.png

No way the camera on the left is represented in the correct size. Both should be about the same height just like the side by side picture above..

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12 hours ago, mercer said:

As he said, he’s an old ENG guy, to him the C100 looks like a toy.

Yeah, it really is about your frame of reference.  I used to think of my 700D as my "big camera" because I'd come from P&S and then m43 mirrorless before picking up the 700D!

I've been into hifi (another horribly expensive hobby - I don't recommend it for your wallet!) and I remember the first time I had a reality check about the amounts of money involved.  I was regularly listening to systems in the $80-250K range, and would think of a pre-amplifier as a budget model if it cost less than $20k.  You can buy brand new cars for less!!

12 hours ago, mercer said:

And honestly, without the top handle, and shooting handheld, I don’t think the C100 would draw any more attention than your XC10.

You're probably right.  My wife keeps saying this to me, well, that I worry about the size of the camera too much.

I've done enough street photography to know that when it comes to members of the general public it's as much about how you act in public as anything else.  I've shot with the XC10 on two trips now, the most recent one with the Rode Video Mic Pro Plus on top, and it now feels pretty close to "normal" now, so the 700D feels comfortable.

I guess my worry is that going bigger is like a blind auction.  You can go bigger and bigger and then with no warning you'll hit trouble of some kind.  It would suck to be refused entry to a venue because you had the camera with you, or were forced to hand it over for 'safe-keeping' while you're out supposedly having fun (I'd just be worrying about the camera because these places will never take responsibility if something is 'lost').
I actually lost a Gorillapod SLR (a ~20cm tall bendy tripod) in the Vatican while on a package holiday.  The rules they have in security is "no tripods" and because it had three legs, they flagged it.  They were good about it and would have put it in a locker and returned it to me, but the tour was going in one entry and out another on the other side of the place, with no time before the bus left for me to go back and get it.  Game over.  

I want better images but not enough to start having people ping me whenever I'm going into controlled situations.  The kids school gets a bit funny with photography because of posting photos of other peoples kids onto social media, plus they also record things themselves and sell the DVDs (eg, school plays).  The XC10 got some serious looks from the AV staff the last time I used it to record bits of a graduation ceremony.  It's just a hassle I guess.

12 hours ago, mercer said:

As I said, right now I’m happy with the 5D3, but if Canon were to think out of the box like they did with the C200 and introduce some kick ass video features in this new FF mirrorless or the new cine camera, at a reasonable price point, I would definitely consider it. Hell I don’t even want the 4K, so I should be easy to impress. 

It will be interesting.  I should go read up on the rumours.  Do we know if it will be focusing on video quality?  @Mokara wrote a great post explaining that the DIGIC 1080 processing is likely thermally limited, which makes sense as all the Canon video models have fans.  It might be another great camera with the same soft 1080 encoding.

3 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Makes sense. Thanks. That almost looks too small to me. But I have big fat fingers.

Sorry mate - I should have said.

It's actually a lot better than you'd think because the XC10 is a proper grip you can get your fingers around.  I have largish hands and find that with DSLRs now I notice that the ends of my fingers are mashing against the front part of the hand-grip, but almost not at all with the XC10.  Here's the top-down view of XC10 vs 1DXii:

397204448_ScreenShot2018-05-31at12_01_09pm.png.143bbe1e1da18d2e4562e7c991341366.png

and just for amusement and a subtle attempt to get back on track, here's the XC10 vs M50 - much smaller again:

1713372942_ScreenShot2018-05-31at12_05_26pm.thumb.png.3f44690c46ba7d2a28a9a29cca2715f9.png

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I did some tests comparing my 1DC to the M50 in 4K. 

In the video, you can see that the 1DC in 4K actually has better rolling shutter performance. Also, to my eye...the 1DC has an advantage in overall image quality. More richness and color information in the files. It also seems a bit sharper as well. 

HOWEVER, with a speed booster, the M50's 4K is usable, and if anything, will serve as an excellent B camera for interviews. The rolling shutter in 4K is probably so bad that I wouldn't recommend it for gimbal shots. But as you can see in the test, using the FCPX rolling shutter fix plugin, it stabilizes it fairly well. 

I'm hoping a true full frame 4k mirrorless camera comes from Canon soon!

 

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@DaveAltizer first thanks for the test and on my phone, the matching looked pretty damn close... I was actually surprised by how good the M50 looked compared to the 1DC.

I’d love to see a little more of an artistic test with a little grading... maybe by using Cinestyle or eoshd-log or Prolost Flat.

And finally, although I understand the point of RS stress tests, sometimes I end up chuckling because nobody would ever shoot that way in real life... even with a whip pan. So if you do another test, I’d love to see how it looks with a slow pan and a slider shot.

Also, I’d love to see some 1080p and DPAF?

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Here’s my video review on the speed booster I got from a previous thread. Just posting here so we don’t have multiple M50 threads. 

Speed booster really solves the issues with the 4K crop. I wish Metabones would make an “XL” version for EF-M so it takes the 4K crop to proper super35. But still, the .71x isn’t too bad.

 

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Excellent Video David

 

Btw Viltrox will release their EF-EFM speedbooster in a month or two, and price will be similar to their current M2 adapter... so if you want to sell yours for min loss it is the chance

 

from their fb page

 

Quote

Viltrox is going to launch the following items in June to July. Stay tune!
Viltrox 即將於6月至7月推出以下產品,敬請留意!

Specification only in Chinese but not difficult to understand.
.

EF-FX1 Canon EF/EF-S to Fuji X Auto adapter
Estimated RP 預計售價: US$169
Comment on actual working sample:
Not fast as PDAF in Sony camera. but it focus across the frame including the corners with ideal speed.
.

EF-FX2 Canon EF to Fuji X Auto Booster
Estimated RP 預計售價: US$239
.

EF-GFX Canon EF/EF-S to Fuji GFX Auto adapter
Estimated RP 預計售價: US$189
.

EF-EOSMX Canon EF to EOSM Auto Booster
Estimated RP 預計售價: US$189
(The model number will be changed when launch)

 

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@ntblowz cool thanks for posting that link. I had written to viltrox last month and they told me the same. It's great they've finally done the public announcement! Can't wait to use it on the original eos m which now shoots 2.5k raw video. 

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Hey Dave,

This one is for you.

Thanks for the heads up on the M50 ... looks to be a decent B Cam. Found that the Wooden Camera Cage does allow for the external power input and HDMI

is accessible ... might be a workaround ... as putting it on the M50 and removing it for the battery would be a major pain.

 

https://vimeo.com/275429037

Password: Daysend

Picture profile neutral.

 

And a still for all those worried about highlights....

 

1062662687_WhiteBlossom01.thumb.jpg.bab1ee2fc893c3565a6d29b822c86a7d.jpg

 

Again thanks for the information ... 

 

Bob

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