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Happy Daze

NX1 Extended Dynamic Range? New Settings.

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Neat find! I compared these settings:

A. RGB sliders at 1.00, ISO 1600

B. RGB sliders at 1.99, ISO 800

My initial observation was that B has more noise, and more detail in the highlights. Upon further observation, it appears that B is actually significantly sharper than A, which contributes to the perception of more noise. I do not believe there is any reduction in noise, nor any benefit for low light performance; however overall detail and highlight clipping is improved.

These observations go for both Gamma DR and Normal.

And I confirm that setting the RGB sliders lower than 1.00 simply moves the clipping point and does not grant any advantages.

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3 hours ago, Happy Daze said:

Yes you are right. As I said in an earlier post the highlights are actually blown/clipping but at a lower level than 255, even though the scopes appear fine. I believe that the method of lowering the color settings and increasing exposure is failed, BUT in reverse: take color settings to +1.99 and reduce exposure (-1, -1.30) then this proves to have benefits, which you can read from the other posts in this thread.

I normally adjust colour as well to be different form standard as I found some colours were just over the top, so sure you can vary them slightly for the same benefit. But I have found that the colours improve when on full +1.99 and I find the colour variance is now not necessary. 

It may be April Fools day, but think of this as an Easter present, much better than an egg.

It is just unbelievable if we can gain that extra stop we are missing from the terrible low light performance. That stop, isn't the end of the world, as the cameras are exceptional in most things, but if I can gain that extra stop too, then I can confidently stay in the system for longer! 

Thanks.

 

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Tried the "RGB boost" and yes, it is definitely brighter, just as setting them to 0 is black. I have to actually test it and analyze the video it produces, but it may even be 2 stops brighter IMO. 

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I will have to give this a try myself :).

Who is going to be the first to post 1:1 side by sides to show the NR.

My guess is that this trick is not getting any better results out of the sensor but is allowing you to increase the "gain" without increasing the ISO and because the NX1 seems to have some sort of terrible builtin NR that is tied to the ISO level you can avoid this internal NR.

Obviously, this is just a guess and I really have no idea lol.

 

Also is there anyone here who is really good with colours / scopes who can confirm none of the channels are clipping because of this boost?

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2 minutes ago, MountneerMan said:

I will have to give this a try myself :).

Who is going to be the first to post 1:1 side by sides to show the NR.

My guess is that this trick is not getting any better results out of the sensor but is allowing you to increase the "gain" without increasing the ISO and because the NX1 seems to have some sort of terrible builtin NR that is tied to the ISO level you can avoid this internal NR.

Obviously, this is just a guess and I really have no idea lol.

 

Also is there anyone here who is really good with colours / scopes who can confirm none of the channels are clipping because of this boost?

I will take some [identical] video with the boost on and off and post up some stills from 4k video as well as screenshots of scopes from premiere. 

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32 minutes ago, MountneerMan said:

Yes please higher ISO and if you could kindly zoom on and edge between a shadow and non-shadow area so we can see the noise.

here are some zooms (600%) of the above frames. I will get the higher ISO stuff tonight. 

 

 

z184_pw_on_f2.8_1.60_iso_100.png

z185_pw_off_f2.8_1.60_iso_100.png

z186_pw_on_f3.5_1.60_iso_200.png

z187_pw_off_f2.8_1.60_iso_200.png

z188_pw_off_f2.8_1.60_iso_200.png

z189_pw_on_f2.8_1.60_iso_100.png

you can see in the last two frames there appears to be more sharpening happening without picture wizard on. I made sure to leave all picture wizard settings at 0 except the RGB, so I did not turn down sharpness. Interesting. 

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Really excited for the potential here. I'm going to keep playing with variations on settings, but just doing a quick clip at my desk showed some nasty macroblocking in the shadows that I haven't seen since before I started using the bitrate hack. Can't imagine how bad they'd be if the bitrate was standard. The video shows the same clip OOC and with a basic lut. I think I'm going to play around with RGB values around 1.50 next. Or maybe this is a Master Black Level issue. I generally only shoot with it at +5 and in Gamma DR.

Settings:

RGB all 1.99

Gamma Control Normal contrast -5, sharpness -10, saturation -1

MB level +15

Bitrate Hack: 140 mbps

Lens: 16-50 @ f/2.0 on wide shot, f/2.8 tight

iso 1600, 1/50th, UHD

 

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My Observations. This is just my take on the colour boost setting.

I set up a small high contrast studio scene to judge the affect of full colour boost and have come to this conclusion:

At colour boost 1.99 (with -1 exposure compensation) compared to 0.00 (standard exposure) the highlights and Blacks actually increase fractionally, therefore decreasing the dynamic range slightly.

To combat this I have set the colour boost to 1.90 and the Master Black Level to +5. I still expose at -1 stop which has centred the histogram with no clipping for the scene that I created.

Now the weird part: with these settings I am able to to turn the exposure compensation way down (-2 to -3) without it appearing to affect the blacks/shadows too badly, it only appears to mostly affects the whites/highlights/gamma. This means that I can achieve a massive dynamic range by exposing for the whites and not worrying too much about the blacks. There is also the added benefit of gaining more stops with this method.

Please tell me that I am not the only one! These are my settings:

R, G & B 1.90

Contrast -5

Saturation -1

Sharpening -10

Master Black Level: +5

Luminance Level: 0-255

Exposure compensation: Expose for whites (0 to -3.00)

All else standard.

I must of course be wrong, as I can not see how this is possible, it's a complete mystery. I would be grateful for your feedback with the above settings/method.

Cheers, Paul.

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53 minutes ago, Happy Daze said:

Now the weird part: with these settings I am able to to turn the exposure compensation way down (-2 to -3) without it appearing to affect the blacks/shadows too badly, it only appears to mostly affects the whites/highlights/gamma. This means that I can achieve a massive dynamic range by exposing for the whites and not worrying too much about the blacks. There is also the added benefit of gaining more stops with this method.

 

This is what rising master black level does. It's cool for high contrast scenes or if you have a contrasty profile. As far as I've tested, it can easily be done in post, and it seems to not matter, if you do it in camera or in post.

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I've done some tests today. The camera was set to UHD, 25p, Gamma DR, -5 contrast, -7 sharpness, 16-235, sRGB. I compared different ISOs with and without RGB set to max (1.99). 

 

So what I found out:

All RGB channels at 1.99 increase exposure by 1 stop (or very, very close to it);

Therefore ISO 1600 with RGB at 1.99, is the same exposure as ISO 3200 with RGB at 1;

It positively affects the inbuilt noise reduction. Seems like the NR really is triggered by ISO value and not the actual sensor gain;

It doesn't have any visible gains in highlights.

 

Here's the test. The password is - rgb .

Here you can download the edited test file, if you would like to take a closer look - https://failiem.lv/u/xvgh44ks

 

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