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IronFilm

Z Cam E2 will have ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FPS in 4K??

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I believe ZCam (E2) has quite a few tricks up it's sleeve. The only problem, I suspect, is that many of those have been highly delayed wrt implementation. I would have opened my mouth, but let's just wait for the company to do it officially. 

Unfortunately the waiting is as bad as the Blackmagic Delays, in many ways. Hopefully the wait won't be thay long though. 

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7 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Its come a long way from the keepy uppy video thats for sure.

The delay on this one is pretty long (not in years or too many quarters, to be fair), which is visible from their announcement of ProRes and RAW long before they actually got it on their camera. Plus it's hardware needs gadgets to help with the 'ease of use bit right.

It has many things right and a few things wrong (all of which IMHO can be improved or changed). Whether they delay it further or abandon that roadmap completely would determine the true success of the camera.

Maybe they were probably in a hurry to release it, so that early adopters can help with the development roadmap and so that company morale isn't affected by the fact that they have to wait for many wuartwrs for collaborations to come through. 

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

That is not what the word "vaporware" means. 

The Z Cam E2 is already shipping. 

There are already people with this camera in their hands and shooting with it. 

That is not vaporware. 

Figurative speech... I believe. You know, context always counts ; ) I guess he meant they can count with a very hard way to expect them. That's all (E : -)

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

That is not what the word "vaporware" means. 

The Z Cam E2 is already shipping. 

There are already people with this camera in their hands and shooting with it. 

That is not vaporware. 

Is it shipping already? 
I didn't know that.

What I meant was this doesn't interest a lot of people, so its existence is almost irrelevant to our reality. Fumes. 

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1 hour ago, Kisaha said:

Is it shipping already? 
I didn't know that.

What I meant was this doesn't interest a lot of people, so its existence is almost irrelevant to our reality. Fumes. 

I hope not though : ) The trouble is the P4K price range though. I believe they will need to put the bar down.

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9 hours ago, Kisaha said:

What I meant was this doesn't interest a lot of people, so its existence is almost irrelevant to our reality. Fumes. 

Give it a price reduction in the near future and will become very relevant to us. (or at least some of us)

Thus it is worthwhile keeping an eye on its progress!

7 hours ago, Kisaha said:

As you can see, they are still fixing bugs!

If you know anything about software development you know then you can spend an almost infinite amount of timing fixing bugs on complex projects.

Thus I'm glad to see Z Cam still supporting their older products. 

 

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7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Give it a price reduction in the near future and will become very relevant to us. (or at least some of us)

Thus it is worthwhile keeping an eye on its progress!

If you know anything about software development you know then you can spend an almost infinite amount of timing fixing bugs on complex projects.

Thus I'm glad to see Z Cam still supporting their older products. 

 

For the first part I mentioned earlier that I envy the B&H customers that eventually will get it for 699$, so I covered that approach.

Secondly, there is so much time that you have to issue bugs on cameras. I know about software, I have a diploma degree on programming, but some things like cameras, cars, e.t.c have to work properly from day one, or two, and these people are fixing it still at the end of its camera life.

What that says to me?

1) Not a big engineering team

2) Not a sufficient critical mass of users that can identify issues early on

3) it took them 3 years, to fix audio sync issues on 4K 24fps (how basic is this?) and a shutter setting reset (again) and other "minor bug" issues

- 4K 24fps audio sync bug fix.
- Shutter setting reset bug fix.
- Revised ZLog with LUT.
- Minor bug fixes.

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7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Give it a price reduction in the near future and will become very relevant to us. (or at least some of us)

Thus it is worthwhile keeping an eye on its progress!

If you know anything about software development you know then you can spend an almost infinite amount of timing fixing bugs on complex projects.

Thus I'm glad to see Z Cam still supporting their older products. 

 

For the first part I mentioned earlier that I envy the B&H customers that eventually will get it for 699$, so I covered that approach!

Secondly, there is so much time that you have to issue bugs on cameras. I know about software, I have a degree on multimedia and programming and was thought various computer languages since my high school years (to access University here I had to write special exams in essay, maths and Cobol language!), but some things like cameras, cars, e.t.c have to work properly from day one, or two, and these people are fixing it still at the end of its life.

What that says to me?

1) Not a big engineering team

2) Not a sufficient critical mass of users that can identify issues early on

3) it took them 3 years, to fix audio sync issues on 4K 24fps (how basic is this?) and a shutter setting reset (again) and other minor bug issues which are excusable I guess.

"- 4K 24fps audio sync bug fix.
- Shutter setting reset bug fix.
- Revised ZLog with LUT.
- Minor bug fixes."

I am excited about all the players, and I expect big leaps from small manufacturers, but we - and them - have to identify serious issues they have in their product chain, or else they won't survive.

One of the advantages of P4K is the price, if you exclude the price of Resolve, it costs half what the EZ costs, and then the GH5S costs only a little more, and X-T3 costs a lot less, and full frame cameras cost the same.

You see how this camera can squeezed among all these options and sold for 699$ in 2020, and at 2022 they will fix sync issues in 4K??!!

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2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

2) Not a sufficient critical mass of users that can identify issues early on

Well they had the 4K 24ps audio bug pointed out to them ages ago. So wasn't a lack of a sizeable user base

 

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

3) it took them 3 years, to fix audio sync issues on 4K 24fps (how basic is this?)


To be fair even the mighty GH5 has an audio sync issue of 3 frames (or was it 6? I forget, something around that size), which still isn't fixed by Panasonic.

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It’s funny the amount of contradictory remarks on this forum. I remember reading more than a few times that users are pleased that companies update their older products, even while new products are in the market. Yet it’s laughable by those sharing that same sentiment because of a fix that took a while to complete. 

I respect companies, big or small, that can provide continuous support for their users. It shows a level of commitment that creates brand loyalty and quality interactions, which brings better products to the market. These E1’s have been the most incredible supplementary cinema cameras in my tool box and I’m stoked that Z-Cam users still get the support for it!

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36 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Both perpectives stand. I also appreciate our Greek fellow's criticism. Constructive criticism should always be welcome : -)

Thank you @Emanuel !

All I am saying is that Z have to improve their efforts. The more players in the market, the better cameras we will have sooner.

I am wondering how many from this forum bought their previous camera full price, or on B&H sale though..

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3 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

Thank you @Emanuel !

All I am saying is that Z have to improve their efforts. The more players in the market, the better cameras we will have sooner.

I am wondering how many from this forum bought their previous camera full price, or on B&H sale though..

I bought mine from Kickstarter. Never received though. I recently entered in touch with the CEO, he told me he would fix that : -)

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1 hour ago, Emanuel said:

Both perpectives stand. I also appreciate our Greek fellow's criticism. Constructive criticism should always be welcome : -)

I agree, it's not good that they still have bugs, but it is excellent that they continue to release updates.

I see Z Cam as the polar opposite of a company like Canon: if you want maintenance-free reliability and instant integration into existing workflows, look to the traditional products like Canon's C line. If you want bleeding edge, not-tried-and-true technology that you can experiment with, and provide meaningful feedback on to guide the development of the next generation of products, that's where Z Cam fits in. It's similar to the difference between Linux and Apple. It's entirely possible to have a great experience, reliably using Linux to do real-world work, but you do have to do your own research, and accept more responsibility as an end-user to debug things on your own.

And the truth of that situation is that Z Cam will likely never have the market sway that Canon et. al. do, and will never have the resources or vast QA teams to match the big players. But the benefit of the small team is you can have a more personal experience--I mean, you can't just hop on Facebook and provide personal input to the Canon CEO on what features they should include.

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I am prepping for a shoot so I can’t respond exactly to how I feel about the recent comments, but I will like to share a clip that was posted recently. It’s a video recorded on the E1 with its new Zlog refinements and graded by one of their company’s “suits”. 

 

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