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"Canon killed 1D C after just 9 months"


Andrew Reid
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Just playing Devil's Advocate here for a moment but multiple stores in multiple countries having multiple copies in stock and ready to go is either a sign of tremendous production levels or tremendous disinterest from people actually buying them ;)

A bit of context to Andrew's point about LCE is that they aren't a small shop in a provincial town but one of the only multi city bricks and mortar outlets still standing in the UK.

If they aren't carrying them from stock in a city like Manchester which, trust me, has a fairly big chunk of the UK's pro sports photographers in its environs, then there is some significance there.

Anyway, no 400mm f2.8 so its all moot ;) 

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2 hours ago, DBounce said:

The 1DX2 produced good video... The only thing wrong with it is that 1. There is no log profile 2. It should be 10 bit 422. 3. There should be a clean 4k 60p 10 bit or raw output. 1080p should look way better. Ok... So there are a few issues... But the stills are lovely:-)

I agree the 1DXii should have had C-Log but the idea of 10bit in a DSLR is... was unheard of until Panasonic disrupted the market. Canon can be bashed for a lot. But I don't think lack of 10bit video in a DSLR is one of them. And honestly, I really liked your 1DXii work.

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17 minutes ago, mercer said:

I agree the 1DXii should have had C-Log but the idea of 10bit in a DSLR is... was unheard of until Panasonic disrupted the market. Canon can be bashed for a lot. But I don't think lack of 10bit video in a DSLR is one of them. And honestly, I really liked your 1DXii work.

Thanks for the compliment. But do you really think 10 bit was such a hard feat for a camera as large as the 1DXMk2? Remember the GH4 could output 10 bit 4k from the HDMI port. 

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27 minutes ago, DBounce said:

Thanks for the compliment. But do you really think 10 bit was such a hard feat for a camera as large as the 1DXMk2? Remember the GH4 could output 10 bit 4k from the HDMI port. 

I don't think it would be hard as much as it is unnecessary on a Pro Stills camera. It will be interesting to see how much if any, the GH5 takes from Canon in sales this year... and if they do, how Canon will react. 

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On 9/11/2017 at 1:02 PM, OliKMIA said:

Personally I think this is due to inertia. Like a giant oil tanker traveling for miles after its engines stop the pro photography world is full of people who don't want to re-invent the wheel because they used Canon and Nikon for years. Some of them started as Canon or Nikon with their dad in the analog film era. They built habits and lenses collection and they have no reasons to change. They are also not very creative  (not an insult for news and sports photographer) and don't need the latest bells and whistles or cutting edge DR. On top of that many agencies just put Canon and Nikon on the shelf for their staff because "that's how it should be"

Personally I think that if Canon continues to release such un-inspiring (5Dmk4) or crooked (6Dmk2) camera, the enthusiast photographer of today who currently pick Sony/Pana/Fuji over Canon will stick to their present choice when they'll become the pro in 5, 10 or 20 years. As Andrew said, a teenager making is first Indie movie with a Sony A or Pana GH will probably prefer to use a FS or EVA as soon as he got the budget.

Canon is only looking in the past, like the Captain on the deck of its powerless tanker ship, still feeling good that is ship is moving forward thanks to its secured (lens hostage) market of news, wedding and sport photographers. However in the back there are smaller ships catching up. But at some point Canon will have to throw more than 4 years old sensors technology and flipping screen to stay up to speed.

OliKMIA you pretty much described my gear journey to a "T". I started with the Canon HV20 and then later the Canon 7D because that's what my employer provided. When it came time to buy my own camera I got the Panny GH1. At the time mirrorless micro-four thirds cameras weren't taken very seriously. I'd show up to gigs with my adapted Voigtlander, Pentax, and Sigma glass and get mocked because I didn't have a 5DMKII + Canon EF 70‑200mm f/2.8L. Apparently I couldn't be a "real" filmmaker or photographer unless I had red lining on my lenses and a hefty battery grip. I contemplated going with Canon if only to secure steady work as the bias for them runs deep in our industry. Then, the Driftwood hack happened and in the words of the Canadian studio poet Drake "Nothing was the same." As the years went by it became more and more clear that DSLR video wasn't a top priority for Canon. Their increasing price points coupled with lackluster features kept me from jumping on the brand-wagon. I've seen less and less postings on gig boards specifically requesting Canon gear and more being open to overall camera capabilities. Now years later I'm ready to buy my first true pro-cine camera. The Panny EVA , Sony FS7, and BM Ursa Mini Pro make up my shortlist. It's not that Canon C series cameras don't provide adequate results but rather that my trust in Canon as a brand is a bit tarnished. Partly because of how Canon die-hards treated me early on, and partly because of how little I've seen them innovate versus their competitors. 

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On 11/09/2017 at 7:02 PM, OliKMIA said:

They are also not very creative  (not an insult for news and sports photographer) and don't need the latest bells and whistles or cutting edge DR. On top of that many agencies just put Canon and Nikon on the shelf for their staff because "that's how it should be"

There is definitely conservatism involved - and there has to be due to time and budget pressures - but I'd definitely argue the point about a lack of creativity to be fair.

We're dealing with live events that we have zero control over in terms of positioning and light etc let alone action but we HAVE to get something worthwhile and that means you often have to be creative just to get SOMETHING.

We're also dealing with trying to operate cheek by jowl with competing photographers - scores of them - all of whom you know WILL get a shot by hook or by crook and quite literally step on your toes to do so. So getting something different enough to stand out to a picture editor when he's receiving literally hundreds of images a minute from the same event demands a certain degree of creativity.

It also demands creativity to keep yourself interested in trying to create something fresh of Cristiano Ronaldo for example when you and everyone else has shot a gazillion frames of him over the years in his various permutations of joy, sulk and pout ;)

I'd dispute we don't need the latest and greatest but, yes, we do only truly value them in quite a small range of specific areas like high ISO, AF and networking. Wide DR is something elsr that we do value though as we deal with a lot of uneven light in stadiums in both daylight (huge areas of dark shadow under big stands) and floodlight where the difference between the goal area and the rest of the pitch can be much bigger than expected. If you're struggling with exposure you have to go fully manual and continually ride it to stop even the best metering system making the wrong (often catastrophic) choice. As we deal in JPEGs rather than RAW we have to have it as right coming out of the camera as possible so more DR to be a bit more forgiving is important to us.

I'm not being a defender of the faith for Nikon and Canon but we do need someone to come up with a package that can better than what we've already got if we're to jump ship. 

The trouble is people like Sony and Fuji keep turning up to a gun fight with a knife. Even when they bring a gun they seem to overlook the bullets.

I have never seen any sports photographer pet their camera and declare undying love for it. On the contrary, most of the time they are being cursed so its not a fanboy thing by any stretch of the imagination that keeps us with them. 

Its just a fit for purpose thing.

And its on them to make something fitter for purpose rather than us to try and work round it.

Creatively or otherwise ;)

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I have an analogy for all this situation of cameras: which is the best selling car in the world? which cheap Indian car company got land rover? the pros who use Canon for years will not change, but their children will not use Canon.

It is not the D5 or the 1DX that determines the direction of sales, but the opposite: we all start from the bottom, buying cameras that cost a thousand dollars at most. Who is innovating in cameras up to 2000 dollars? Sony is paving the way for the future, the result will come in a few years.

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2 minutes ago, Nicholas Karfoot said:

I know The magic lantern guys have been warned not to hack the EOS Cinema Range. But if the 1D C is EOL would it be possible to get away with it, now?

That is not why they haven done it. Its because they can't do it. They need a firmware file for it first and there has never been one released.

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1 minute ago, Mattias Burling said:

That is not why they haven done it. Its because they can't do it. They need a firmware file for it first and there has never been one released.

Oh I see...
Very sad. 

I was looking at the Leica SL I wonder if that would be a better camera to Hack. I was also thinking that the best contender for RAW etc would be the GH5.

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On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 3:21 PM, maisdoidoainda said:

I have an analogy for all this situation of cameras: which is the best selling car in the world? which cheap Indian car company got land rover? the pros who use Canon for years will not change, but their children will not use Canon.

It is not the D5 or the 1DX that determines the direction of sales, but the opposite: we all start from the bottom, buying cameras that cost a thousand dollars at most. Who is innovating in cameras up to 2000 dollars? Sony is paving the way for the future, the result will come in a few years.

This is the point I've been long making.

 

That the  feeder network of cameras matters a lot for sales success of the higher end cameras.

 

Thus Panasonic made a massive blunder with their Panasonic EVA1.

 

They have a massive success with their Panasonic GH series of the years. Then you have the Panasonic Varicam LT which is a top notch high end camera.

The Panasonic EVA1 was the golden opportunity to build a bridge between those two worlds Panasonic has succeeded in!!

& provide a pathway up for GH series owners. But Panasonic failed to have a MFT version of the Panasonic EVA1.

 

While this is an area Sony is doing successfully. You could start out with say a NEX-5N or a5100, then move up to an a7Rmk2, then secondhand FS700 for 4K raw, then an FS7mk2, and then a VENICE!!!

All the way along you get to stick with the same E mount throughout! Genius! 

On Sunday, September 24, 2017 at 8:27 AM, Nicholas Karfoot said:


I was looking at the Leica SL I wonder if that would be a better camera to Hack. I was also thinking that the best contender for RAW etc would be the GH5.

Have you seen CHDK??

Magic Lantern was so successful because they got to build on top of that success.

 

You won't see Magic Lantern for any other camera ever happening any time soon, without that massive amount of groundwork being laid beforehand.

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