Jump to content
Hanriverprod

Sony Will Announce the A6500

Recommended Posts

EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
54 minutes ago, Nikkor said:

Oh comon emanuel, thats slomo footage. The 6300 does have the worst RS around, and RS is a problem.

Horses for courses. No one can say RS is not there. Awful? For testing? Yes, it is. But, a good shooter should know how to use the tools, as we all know but tend to forget in the most geeky way of pages populated of geeks we all are too : ) a shooter is beyond that! :-)

In the last part, there's 4K footage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

RS is on of the most defining differences between high end cameras and consumer ones. If I cannot use pans in a shot that takes away a storytelling tool. And the A6300 isn't simply bad, it's horrendous, it's easily the worst performing RS of any consumer camera. It makes it unusable in any professional filmmaking setting, relocating it to use in interviews and event work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, SR said:

If the NX1 has a smartphone processor, what kind of processors are inside the Red and Arri to handle crazy resolutions along with converting them into compressed raw?

Those cameras have large bodies with big heatsinks for the processors. They can be run much more aggressively as a result.

Compressed raw is less demanding for the processor than H.264 or H.265 btw. Inefficient compression allows you to get away with a weaker processor, but the tradeoff is that you need massive storage capabilities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, tugela said:

Those cameras have large bodies with big heatsinks for the processors. They can be run much more aggressively as a result.

Compressed raw is less demanding for the processor than H.264 or H.265 btw. Inefficient compression allows you to get away with a weaker processor, but the tradeoff is that you need massive storage capabilities.

Interesting, so theoretically, the NX1 would be able to easily handle compressed raw, if Samsung had decided on it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SR said:

Interesting, so theoretically, the NX1 would be able to easily handle compressed raw, if Samsung had decided on it. 

Ok I loved the NX1 when I had it, but stop blowing smoke up it's ass. You could say the same thing for every single Nikon and Canon camera (and Canon's have RAW hacks)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

RS is on of the most defining differences between high end cameras and consumer ones. If I cannot use pans in a shot that takes away a storytelling tool. And the A6300 isn't simply bad, it's horrendous, it's easily the worst performing RS of any consumer camera. It makes it unusable in any professional filmmaking setting, relocating it to use in interviews and event work.

Simply because a6300 is not a professional video camera, neither for stills. It is a camera for amateurs, low budget indies who can use it carefully as B camera. In a tripod as most part of shots in any serious narrative piece, it can actually shine if the shooter knows the limitations of the device. If so, it can be a very interesting tool, really not expensive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Geoff CB said:

Ok I loved the NX1 when I had it, but stop blowing smoke up it's ass. You could say the same thing for every single Nikon and Canon camera (and Canon's have RAW hacks)

No, I'm genuinely curious, since the topic of processor came up. Did you know compressed raw took less processing power than H.264 or H.265? I didn't. It's good to know that companies who don't have a pro video line of cameras to protect, like Nikon, Fuji, Blackmagic, and previously Samsung, can easily introduce compressed raw without pricing it like a Red. It'd been a mystery to me how Blackmagic had been able to bring out the compressed raw for their prices. But yea it's a digression from topic. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, SR said:

Interesting, so theoretically, the NX1 would be able to easily handle compressed raw, if Samsung had decided on it. 

Probably not. It would require cards capable of the required write speeds, which I don't think is feasible with SD. The restrictions are not just processor related, it is also storage related.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that one should understand what exactly raw video is. It's not same as  raw for stills, where each frame is about 30-40MB on NX1. If you already make it 4k, then it can't be raw anymore, since raw is the output from the sensor, not processed. So what is it, exactly, eg on RED cameras?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Marco Tecno said:

I think that one should understand what exactly raw video is. It's not same as  raw for stills, where each frame is about 30-40MB on NX1. If you already make it 4k, then it can't be raw anymore, since raw is the output from the sensor, not processed. So what is it, exactly, eg on RED cameras?

Even raw files can have some form of processing, e.g. noise reduction or downscaling (example is for example RAW, mRAW and sRAW on Canon cameras). MagicLantern also saves raw data which is not identical to the full resolution the sensor has.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Marco Tecno said:

Exactly, that's what I wanted to say. If a 6k raw still is 30-40mb, a 4k one would be about 13-17mb. At 24fps that would mean 320-420mb/sec. No sd card could do that. Hence raw frame is less than this. How much less? 

The answer to that is the so called "raw" used in video is not real raw. It is processed, but has not yet had things like white balance and such applied to it.

Real 6K raw (which is actually 4K after debeyering) at 8 bits and 30 fps would require a bit rate of around 4300 mbps (540 mB/s). "HD" raw (which is actually ~700p after debeyering) at 8 bits  and 60 fps would require a bit rate of around 960 mbps (120 MB/s). There are very few (if any) SD cards with a minimum write rates that match those specs, even for 720p footage. When you go to 10 bit footage you are generating 4X as much data.

So all these cameras that are recording "raw" to SDs are not really recording raw, what they are recording is partially processed data.

25 minutes ago, jagnje said:

Minimum write speed is 30 mB/s, so it is not even close.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, raw can be compressed, absolutely nothing strange about that.
And just like with stills you have lossless or lossy compression.

Lossless: No information lost, kinda like winzip to make it easier (even tough its not exactly like that).
Lossy/visually lossless: Where some information is lost but nothing that a couple of eyes could ever spot.
Uncompressed raw: Not very common, I can only think of the 5Dmkiii, the 2.5K BMCC if it has the original firmware or the Digital Bolex. Might of course be others but those are the three I know.

Seems some would like to know they ins and outs about raw, this article is pretty in depth: http://www.hdvideopro.com/columns/help-desk/formats-explained/#

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One trick that they can play is to read the sensor at lower bit depths (say, 6 bits), then resynthesize the final pixel at 8 bits during the debeyering process. That would reduce the amount of raw data by 4X. Someone viewing the output would not be able to tell the difference, especially on an oversampled sensor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Yes, raw can be compressed, absolutely nothing strange about that.
And just like with stills you have lossless or lossy compression.

Lossless: No information lost, kinda like winzip to make it easier (even tough its not exactly like that).
Lossy/visually lossless: Where some information is lost but nothing that a couple of eyes could ever spot.
Uncompressed raw: Not very common, I can only think of the 5Dmkiii, the 2.5K BMCC if it has the original firmware or the Digital Bolex. Might of course be others but those are the three I know.

Seems some would like to know they ins and outs about raw, this article is pretty in depth: http://www.hdvideopro.com/columns/help-desk/formats-explained/#

Ok, I read and understood. But my questions are still the same. Is the one produced by a 5d mk3 a real raw video, as discussed in the article?

 

And...if real raw still from a camera is at least 30MB, how can this be stored in a 24-30fps video? Even compressed, it would still be huge. If too compressed, it'd not be much better than jpg...perhaps more latitude, but less details or something else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...