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The next Blackmagic Pocket or Micro Camera?


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Yeah screw this talk of making another BMPCC v2.0, just put the BMPCC on another $500 sale again! :-D

Micro body and features, but with the 2.5K sensor, would be my ideal right now.

An APS-C sized pocket would be amazing. Smallish form factor with tiltable screen, better battery and speed-boostable to FF... just imagine  .

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1 hour ago, Justin Bacle said:

Actually, I started using MLVFS (Magic Lantern Forum link : MLVFS) to import the footage in Ae (to use Camera Raw). I then use the Ae comps directly in Pr with ingest for creating proxies. It is painless compared to the transcoding mayem (raw2cdng -> Ae -> DNxHD 444 -> Pr)  that I used before.

I used to do that back in the early days of the bmcc, I think Premiere 5.0. But now I rather convert and use Resolve. I have totally dumped adobe for Final Cut.

1 hour ago, mercer said:

 The micro has the same height as the pocket, is shorter in length, but deeper. 

When Ive seen the micro and pocket next to each other I say they are the same size with different shapes. Ad a monitor and the pocket is smaller for sure.

Im not sure I would say that the pocket and the bmcc are totally different beasts. I would say they are very very close and can replace one another. Its just a matter of specific needs.

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13 hours ago, Justin Bacle said:

Actually, I would love to see exactely the same BMPCC but with a better battery and an even lower cost (say $500 ?), so that everyone can have one (think film schools, they could give one to every student). RAW S16 for everyone ! YAY !

Yeah screw this talk of making another BMPCC v2.0, just put the BMPCC on another $500 sale again! :-D

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14 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

I used to do that back in the early days of the bmcc, I think Premiere 5.0. But now I rather convert and use Resolve. I have totally dumped adobe for Final Cut.

I've dumped everything but After Effects, for which I now pay 23,79 € each month. The reason, since I once bought Motion for 50 bucks and can use Fusion 8 for free? There are quite some advanced tools in AAE, for me the most important is Mocha, which I use for rotoscoping exclusively. That's for compositing of course, and for that you also need to match the colors of the layers, color correction. The way Adobe organizes tools was always terrible and will remain so in general. But fortunately AAE has also Lumetri, which finally compounded everything you really need to perform a simple CC in one effect. 

If I just needed some motion graphics like animated titles or logos, Motion was actually much better for that. Premiere loses against FCP in just about every respect. What about dynamic links - since I mentioned I use AAE? 

There is a strict, but really fail-save workflow for that, that even doesn't require the $200 Ximport (f.k.a. Automatic Duck). I make a sloppy pre-comp in my FCP X timeline, complete with keying, rough roto and effects. I make it a compound clip, name it properly and export it as XML, process the file with XtoCC and import that in AAE. None of the effects are recognized there (one shouldn't use transform tools, which are and one must be careful with retiming, because only constant speed changes will translate), but that's how I want it. I queue the render files and replace the compound clips of the same name. Sounds more complicated than it is.

5 hours ago, Ivanhurba said:

I know it's cinema, but they should cover event people too. And a BMPCC with 60p and a tilty swively screen would be awesome. 

Dream on. You sound like those people who demand a GH5 for $1500 with 4k raw internally. I even don't find it likely that it will have 4k 10-bit internally, but of course, if it has, I won't  object that.

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4 hours ago, Axel said:

Dream on. You sound like those people who demand a GH5 for $1500 with 4k raw internally. I even don't find it likely that it will have 4k 10-bit internally, but of course, if it has, I won't  object that.

1080 60p is not that demanding. I guess it's just an external screen attached to the BMMCC with better controls. Yeah, I guess i'm dreaming.

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  • 3 months later...
On 13.9.2016 at 11:25 AM, Flynn said:

The Pocket is in desperate need of a refresh. I don't know their sales figures, but I bet they've sold as many of the Pocket as they have every other camera they've made combined. 

 

I totally agree.

Perfect picture but with FullHD you can't win anymore in 2017.

I desperately hope for an URSA-Cacorder. Larger then the Pocket to include a regular cooling, larger batteries, XLR and maybe even SSDs or M.2 instead of SD-cards.

 

The GH5 with IBIS,internal 4:2:2 10Bit (in 150Mbps IPB or 400Mbps All-I) and Wifi remote control while in 10bit is currently stealing the show. This is 2017.

I'm using my Pockets for closeups. They perform great but I don't have a 4K or UHD image to crop+stabilize/track in post like with every other modern camera. So for wide/medium stage shots, run&gun, even documentary they have left the game a long time ago.

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Blackmagic's product development fundamentally differs from consumer brands and big camera manufacturers (like Panasonic, Sony and Canon) because BM has to design and build its cameras around off-the-shelf sensors made by independent manufacturers like Fairchild and CMOSIS. In this respect, BM's cameras are very much like other "outsider cameras" including the Aja CION, Axiom Apertus and Digital Bolex. (In fact, BM's first-generation 4K cameras use the same CMOSIS sensor as the CION and the Apertus.) Fortunately, BM still manages to survive in the market while Aja and Bolex have already withdrawn.

Neither Fairchild, nor CMOSIS offer a 4K sensor that would fit a renewed Pocket camera and maintain the image quality of the old model. (The sensor built into the 4K Micro Studio Camera has 3[!] stops less dynamic range than the Pocket and the Micro Cinema Camera.) The Fairchild 2.5K sensor built into the first-generation BM Cinema Cameras, on the other hand, needs too much cooling to fit a smaller camera body.

So it really doesn't make much sense to speculate on a BM Pocket successor, with a new sensor and improved image, if such a sensor isn't available on the market yet.

 

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On 1/7/2017 at 3:02 AM, cantsin said:

Blackmagic's product development fundamentally differs from consumer brands and big camera manufacturers (like Panasonic, Sony and Canon) because BM has to design and build its cameras around off-the-shelf sensors made by independent manufacturers like Fairchild and CMOSIS. In this respect, BM's cameras are very much like other "outsider cameras" including the Aja CION, Axiom Apertus and Digital Bolex. (In fact, BM's first-generation 4K cameras use the same CMOSIS sensor as the CION and the Apertus.) Fortunately, BM still manages to survive in the market while Aja and Bolex have already withdrawn.

Neither Fairchild, nor CMOSIS offer a 4K sensor that would fit a renewed Pocket camera and maintain the image quality of the old model. (The sensor built into the 4K Micro Studio Camera has 3[!] stops less dynamic range than the Pocket and the Micro Cinema Camera.) The Fairchild 2.5K sensor built into the first-generation BM Cinema Cameras, on the other hand, needs too much cooling to fit a smaller camera body.

So it really doesn't make much sense to speculate on a BM Pocket successor, with a new sensor and improved image, if such a sensor isn't available on the market yet.

 

There actually are a few global shutter CMOS sensors that can compete but that are still too expensive :s

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I love the image out of the pocket as-is, even if it "only" shoots 1080p. If they re-used the sensor in other camera, all I'd wish for is a camcorder form factor (with an interchangable MFT mount not a built-in zoom) with a fold-out articulating monitor, full-size HDMI and/or SDI, false color, and takes larger Sony, Canon or Panasonic camcorder batteries, instead of DSLR batteries, for improved battery life. It wouldn't be a pocket camera, but they already have the Pocket camera for that. I like the BM doesn't create "MKII" versions of their cameras, they hold more of their value in the used marketplace, as opposed to a DSLR that gets replaced every year or two with a new model.

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Altought I would like most of the upgrades people have been suggesting ( 60p, 2.5k, better battery life ), I would prefer that blackmagic would make a pocket v2 with good audio! They already have the image quality, I wish they would consider audio quality aswell. A complete package! 

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On 1/7/2017 at 3:02 AM, cantsin said:

Blackmagic's product development fundamentally differs from consumer brands and big camera manufacturers (like Panasonic, Sony and Canon) because BM has to design and build its cameras around off-the-shelf sensors made by independent manufacturers like Fairchild and CMOSIS. In this respect, BM's cameras are very much like other "outsider cameras" including the Aja CION, Axiom Apertus and Digital Bolex. (In fact, BM's first-generation 4K cameras use the same CMOSIS sensor as the CION and the Apertus.) Fortunately, BM still manages to survive in the market while Aja and Bolex have already withdrawn.

Neither Fairchild, nor CMOSIS offer a 4K sensor that would fit a renewed Pocket camera and maintain the image quality of the old model. (The sensor built into the 4K Micro Studio Camera has 3[!] stops less dynamic range than the Pocket and the Micro Cinema Camera.) The Fairchild 2.5K sensor built into the first-generation BM Cinema Cameras, on the other hand, needs too much cooling to fit a smaller camera body.

So it really doesn't make much sense to speculate on a BM Pocket successor, with a new sensor and improved image, if such a sensor isn't available on the market yet.

 

Actually, there is the PYTHON5000 image sensor : specs are quite good.

1" sensor (slightly bigger than S16)
5.3 Mpx
Global CMOS
100/85 frames per second @ 5 MP (Zero ROT/Non−Zero ROT)
230/180 frames per second @ 2 MP (Zero ROT/Non−Zero ROT)
255/200 frames per second @ Full HD (Zero ROT/Non−Zero ROT)
60db DR (~12 stops)

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