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The next Blackmagic Pocket or Micro Camera?

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The Pocket was announced April 2013, the Micro was announced April 2015.

 

Wild speculation: we're roughly 6 months away from the next April (2017) reveal.

 

If you were Blackmagic, what would you add, keep or remove to the Pocket / Micro?

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45 minutes ago, Zak Forsman said:

Micro body and features, but with the 2.5K sensor, would be my ideal right now.

With a  <13ms rolling shutter, or ideally: a global shutter with 13+ stop DR.

I wish they wouldn't, but I suspect BM will drop the sub 4k sensors.

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5 hours ago, andrgl said:

The Pocket was announced April 2013, the Micro was announced April 2015.

And the BMCC was announced in 2012, so it might be argued the cycle lengths are doubling... ?? 

I keep on thinking BMD might skip a NAB so they catch their breath, sort out 100% their existing cameras, and make sure their next cameras are 100% prepared for NAB the year after. 

But each year they surprise us and release something else new! Maybe next year they'll finally pause and not release anything?

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A drone operator I know says he has a friend who works for Blackmagic, who told him they are working on a "drone camera". My reply was "what, another BMMCC?" to which he replied "sort of, but better - he wouldn't tell me anything else". 

Take that with a MAJOR pinch of salt, however it's probably highly likely we will see a new small camera from Blackmagic in the micro pocket range next year (shipping in July, haha). 

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I think blackmagic wants to hold off "uprgading" their cameras as much as possible. You can sort of see how each of their cameras still has their own purpose. They were pretty specific in saying the micro doesn't replace the pocket, and it clearly doesn't. When they came out with the pocket, and newsshooter asked them about 4k, they said they wanted this camera to be 1080p. They didn't make it just to disown it right away. They like it, people want it. I could see them developing a new type of camera if they see a gap, but I think it could and maybe should take a long time to make a pocketii. Probably wouldn't be healthy for business to play it like sony. I can't exactly think what other range they'd want to develop right now. They have high end cinema, lower end cinema, drone, handheld, studio. Something more like a dslr, with better battery, evf, and the 2.5k or a new 4k sensor (like a crop of the 4.6k) would be awesome. But I don't think they feel they need it, and it really might shift their sales unfavorably. Not that I'm a businessman..

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5 minutes ago, Michael Coffee said:

A new BMPCC with the 2.5 k sensor would be awesome

 

Yeah that seems to be the number 1 feature for the Pocket MKii wish list.  I originally said to keep it in micro 4/3 but an active ef mount with a bigger sensor would probably be a huge hit as well. Let it land around $1500. 

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I'd be happy with s16 and mft for 1k, and use the metabones speedbooster - after working with some BM 2.5k footage, I've decided to get a Blackmagic and forget about the Panasonics and Canons etc! An EF mount would be a great option though, for sure..

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8 minutes ago, Michael Coffee said:

I'd be happy with s16 and mft for 1k, and use the metabones speedbooster - after working with some BM 2.5k footage, I've decided to get a Blackmagic and forget about the Panasonics and Canons etc! An EF mount would be a great option though, for sure..

Are you gonna go with the Pocket? If I ever find a new one for $600 or less, I will probably buy one. The Raw image is just undeniable. For now I'm enjoying 50D Raw with Canon colors.

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Haha yeah, looking to pick up a pocket for about 600.. I had a 50d for a while, but sold it on before I could fully check out the RAW - only had a slow cf card. I was also considering a 5D mk2, just love tiny cameras too much though! What would be really cool is a pocket with stabilization and dpaf - an eos m5 could almost be this camera.. some amazing cameras out there for under 1k

 

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8 minutes ago, Michael Coffee said:

Haha yeah, looking to pick up a pocket for about 600.. I had a 50d for a while, but sold it on before I could fully check out the RAW - only had a slow cf card. I was also considering a 5D mk2, just love tiny cameras too much though! What would be really cool is a pocket with stabilization and dpaf - an eos m5 could almost be this camera.. some amazing cameras out there for under 1k

 

I think it would be a genius move for Canon to include raw video in the M5. If they're truly having technical difficulties implementing 4K into their smaller cameras due to heat dissipation, the inclusion of 1080p Raw would put them in a different category and nobody would care if it had 4K. But they would never do it because they don't think outside the box, they are run by bean counters (as all the major camera manufacturers are) 

But with their "history with ML" you'd think it would be pretty simple for them to implement such a feature.

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Here's a prediction: raw video in consumer cameras won't happen any time soon because of the steep requirements for fast storage media. Companies like Canon cannot afford, like Blackmagic, to list only a few SD cards as being fully compatible to their cameras, and deal with resulting user confusion and complaints. (Even Blackmagic's own forum is full of people complaining about frame drops and corrupted recordings, and it turns out every single time that they ignored the list of recommended storage devices.)

Conversely, Blackmagic can't upgrade the Pocket and Micro Cinema with a higher resolution sensor as long as the existing 2.5K sensor (of the orginal Blackmagic Cinema Camera) has too high cooling requirements to be put into a small camera housing. Unless there's any 1" or MFT sensor on the market, or announced, whose power consumption/heat dissipation is on the same level as the existing Fairchild 1" 1080p sensor, a small camera with higher resolution won't happen. (EDIT: Blackmagic could use the 1" 4K sensor of the Micro Studio Camera for a Pocket-like small camera, but the gain in resolution would come at the price of a significant loss of dynamic range.)

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17 hours ago, andrgl said:

The Pocket was announced April 2013, the Micro was announced April 2015.

 

Wild speculation: we're roughly 6 months away from the next April (2017) reveal.

 

If you were Blackmagic, what would you add, keep or remove to the Pocket / Micro?

The next camera they announce will be the Nano Studio Camera. So small that you can't see it. And all for the low, low price of $3k.....a total bargain! Get your preorders in now, or you might be the last Jones in the block to get one!! ;)

59 minutes ago, cantsin said:

Here's a prediction: raw video in consumer cameras won't happen any time soon because of the steep requirements for fast storage media. Companies like Canon cannot afford, like Blackmagic, to list only a few SD cards as being fully compatible to their cameras, and deal with resulting user confusion and complaints. (Even Blackmagic's own forum is full of people complaining about frame drops and corrupted recordings, and it turns out every single time that they ignored the list of recommended storage devices.)

Conversely, Blackmagic can't upgrade the Pocket and Micro Cinema with a higher resolution sensor as long as the existing 2.5K sensor (of the orginal Blackmagic Cinema Camera) has too high cooling requirements to be put into a small camera housing. Unless there's any 1" or MFT sensor on the market, or announced, whose power consumption/heat dissipation is on the same level as the existing Fairchild 1" 1080p sensor, a small camera with higher resolution won't happen. (EDIT: Blackmagic could use the 1" 4K sensor of the Micro Studio Camera for a Pocket-like small camera, but the gain in resolution would come at the price of a significant loss of dynamic range.)

It is not the sensor that overheats, it is the processor serving it. Uncompressed RAW output would have the smallest thermal profile....the problem is that with high bit depths and resolutions you can't store the data fast enough.

The sweet spot in terms of compression and storage limitations are codecs such as MJPEG and Prores. If you use more efficient compression you fry the processor, if you use less efficient compression you can't store the data fast enough.

 

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21 minutes ago, tugela said:

It is not the sensor that overheats, it is the processor serving it.

Believe it or not, Blackmagic cameras - including the Pocket - have active sensor cooling (which BM officially states on its website, "internal active cooling for the cinematic sensor") for a reason. And the 2.5K cinema cameras have bigger and heavier housings for the same reason.

Active sensor cooling, finally, is the reason why the BM Pocket eats up batteries so fast.

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19 minutes ago, cantsin said:

Believe it or not, Blackmagic cameras - including the Pocket - have active sensor cooling (which BM officially states on its website, "internal active cooling for the cinematic sensor") for a reason. And the 2.5K cinema cameras have bigger and heavier housings for the same reason.

Active sensor cooling, finally, is the reason why the BM Pocket eats up batteries so fast.

Their sensors are being read at the same rate as everyone else's, so that is BS. The cooling is for the electronics overall, the primary heat source being the processor. The sensor needs to be kept cool, but it is not what is generating the heat.

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6 minutes ago, tugela said:

Their sensors are being read at the same rate as everyone else's, so that is BS. The cooling is for the electronics overall, the primary heat source being the processor. The sensor needs to be kept cool, but it is not what is generating the heat.

It is fascinating how much insight members in this forum have into engineering processes, even if official documentation says otherwise.

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