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Oliver Daniel

DJI X5R (4K RAW) + Osmo + Inspire 1... anybody else with the same idea?

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Yes I saw that. Some pauses-for-thought in there. I am wondering if firmware updates have improved matters since. The article doesn't mention it but there is a wired HDMI link to Android phones which prevents drop-outs and fuzzy video feed. The file conversion app is the main problem. 12 hours to convert 12 minutes of footage, is a joke. What other codecs does the OSMO RAW now support in-camera? Can it be used like the OSMO 4K Pro for the times you don't need raw? Or does it only record low-res proxies? Does the 512GB SSD come with it as standard? These have come down to £600 used but it's still far too much because really, you need 5 of them :)

If they fix the raw codec (I don't know why it doesn't just do straight to Cinema DNG 3:1), this thing is one firmware update away from being a valid Pocket 4K alternative with built-in gimbal.

Battery life is very short but the batteries are £20 and easy to change.

There is nothing else as "pick up and go" this small and light with no balancing required that shoots 4K RAW with interchangeable lens mount. You can throw it in a backpack.

The Pocket 4K on a Ronin S is also about 3x the weight. We're talking nearly 3kg inc. lens. That's a lot to hold by one arm on a long shoot.

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7 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

There is nothing else as "pick up and go" this small and light with no balancing required that shoots 4K RAW with interchangeable lens mount. You can throw it in a backpack.

The Pocket 4K on a Ronin S is also about 3x the weight. We're talking nearly 3kg inc. lens. That's a lot to hold by one arm on a long shoot.

Yikes that is almost 7 pounds! That Ain't happening very long. Looks to me like old-timey Camcorders may be on a comeback size wise.

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Camcorders are awesome. Have you seen what the Z90 can do... it’s a S16 FS5 with a built in lens and PDAF... for $2000 cheaper.

But I digress... I am also looking into the Osmo Raw. The portability factor is undeniable as is the image. I know a lot of X5R owners are begging DJi to include ProRes Raw and it seemed like it was going to get the upgrade but they’ve been silent for awhile now. 

On the other hand, the X5S was released with the promise of the Osmo handle “coming soon” and the owners have been waiting for it for way over a year now with little response from DJi. 

EDIT - sorry it seems like the X5S, not X5R, owners are the ones begging for ProRes Raw and the promised Osmo handle.

I’ve heard mixed reports about the X5R and the ProRes conversion with some owners saying it isn’t that bad. You’d think there’d be a workaround by now.

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Camcorders a bit off topic so let's stick to the OSMO RAW.

If there was a way to read the SSD directly and bypass the slow Cinelight app, I'd buy one. But I cannot wait hours and hours to transcode 512GB footage, before being able to pick it up and shoot again. It'd kill the practicality of it. You could be setting up and balancing a Ronin S in 10 minutes.

The size and weight still attract me to the OSMO though.

23 minutes ago, mercer said:

EDIT - sorry it seems like the X5S, not X5R, owners are the ones begging for ProRes Raw and the promised Osmo handle.

Yes the X5S is the one with the 20MP GH5 sensor in it, 5.2K RAW. DJI promised a ProRes RAW codec for that but haven't delivered the firmware update yet. Seems to be delayed. The OSMO handle with X5S and ProRes would be a clear step up but the older X5R is so cheap now!! This was nearly £4k when it came out and now it is £1200, although it's not clear if that includes the £600+ 512GB propriety SSD. I need to ask the seller.

PS - X5R has 25ms rolling shutter, which isn't ideal. X5S is more like 14ms, like GH5.

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I have a post from last year about it that was intriguing... Luke Neumann really likes it and Oliver really disliked it...

 

If they would just release the Osmo handle for the X5S, it would be a no brainer. I’d also... eventually buy an Inspire to fly it.

In the video I posted from the Northmen, the X5R parts are gorgeous and match well with the 5D2 Raw... of course I think the ML Raw is the star in that video... but as a combo, it’s an excellent 1,2 punch. 

 

What’s odd about the files are that they seem to be an encrypted CDNG and then with the software you can transcode to ProRes or to CDNG... I wonder if the “transcode” to CDNG is faster than it is to ProRes because you are right at the used prices they’re going for now, it would be a great tool for handheld Raw.

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3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

How'd it go?

The OSMO RAW is now close to just £1k used. Not sure if that is with the 512GB SSD though. I thought those were included in the box, but some sellers seem to like to split it off!

It’s been a while, but my advice would be “don’t bother”, here’s why:

1. There’s no way of skipping the Cinelight app. It’s slow, it crashes, it’s just awful. Don’t think they ever finished it. 

2. The transcode or recordings suffer badly from missing and dropped frames. Sone shots are ruined as they stutter like 12fps. 

3. The SSD fails all the time, or the Osmo can’t read it. Lots of error messages for no reason. 

4. The WiFi link to operate the Osmo fails frequently. 

5. You are pretty much forced to use an Inspire 1 battery as the internal one runs out very very quickly. Coupled with the fact your phone battery depletes at a similar rate, you need a power bank too. The ergonomics go from sexy to cumbersome.  

6. The stabilisation is much much worse on this device compared to other single handed gimbals. It’s tough to achieve any sort of cinematic movement. 

7. When turned off, it’s very loud. Bit like a shit vacuum cleaner. 

8. Good point - the RAW image is really nice. 

Overall, I think what’s happened here is that DJI mashed together this setup and never fully realised it. It’s a painful, annoying and infuriating setup. DJI should have refunded buyers with unlimited DJI products as compensation for the stress. 

At £1k used - you might as well buy £1k’s worth of beers as that’s more fun and probably better for your health! Or use it to throw at people you don’t like.

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The X7 is an insanely gorgeous image.  I personally think DJI have a better image than just about everyone else except Arri right now.  I’ve always wanted to see them put it in a stand alone camera body and i hope that’s what we’ll see sometime soon.  

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This would be sweet, they can totally do it but their service has to come up in quality a bit if they are going to service a larger market of cameras. 

The x7s raw is beautiful, even their 10bit h265 is wonderful to grade. It's surprising how much difference this makes. I can't wait to see prores raw in something.

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18 minutes ago, mercer said:

From my earlier post, according to @Neumann Films you can use ACR to read the files if on a PC... it seems like the Mac and the DJi software may be the issue... not including the other issues that Oliver mentioned... of course with his laundry list, I wonder if he just had a dud. 

It wasn’t just me, there’s a whole community of users on the FB group who shared very similar issues. I think most will have moved on by now. 

 

22 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

"Shit vacuum cleaner" HAHHAHA!

Well I'll skip it, but if DJI ever make good on the concept I'll be interested.

I do wonder how much of the bugginess they fixed... or not, in the last 2 years.

Haha yeah, if people couldn’t see you, they’d just assume you’d be on elbows and knees sucking dust from under your car seat. 

The concept is amazing and pulled me in, but it was a bit like buying a world class chocolate cake but then realising it tastes like salt and vinegar crisps. 

It would be cool if the actual concept you describe happened, but these things never completely do. 

 

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I would instant buy an X7 OSMO with 4K60P ProRes Raw. DJI has the tech to do it so let's see. 

For 2 years I told myself this could be an insane camera competitor. They truly innovate unlike all the japanese Canikon. 
They have a big opportunity with their OSMO RAW cameras like @Andrew Reid says but not only in my opinion. They could and should compete in the mirrorless FF market. 

DJI has no cine line to protect and even then they don't care cannibalizing their own products. They will just release crazy stuff at each iteration with many innovative and new tech all in a great ergonomic and well executed package. They have destroyed any drone on the market and prevented monster companies like GoPro from touching them. 

They are totally capable of doing this in the mirrorless market. The disadvantage they had until now could be lenses, but with every player launching a new mount this year it's the opportunity for them to step in and either go with L-mount or create their own. 

Can only dream of what a A7S / Z6 / Pana S1 DJI version could be. Think 4K60P ProRes RAW with a giant touchscreen with super smart features like the new zeiss camera. Even better than a OSMO RAW too specific type of camera if you ask me. 

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I didn't have issues like that. Not saying it was a dud as I had my own headaches but that sounds...faulty. I could be wrong though. Maybe my experience was the exception rather than the rule.

I was a huge fan of the X5R/Inspire 1/Osmo set up. It had quirks but I dealt with them because I loved the image quality, now with the price being much lower, I think it's a hidden gem. No ProRes is rough as DNG slows everything down. There are ways around that though, you can record proxies directly to the Micro SD card and then utilize Premiere's proxy workflow. Personally, I made my cut in Premiere using proxies then Dynamic Linked to AE to use Adobe Camera Raw...which is STILL the best way to process DNG files (in my moderately humble opinion)

I haven't used Cinelight, the PC solution is bare bones but stable and straight forward. Cinelight...I can't speak for. I have heard mixed things as well.

I just cut this together, it's a reel of Osmo and Inspire stuff all on the X5R, should show the versatility. Tripod, pan/tilt (via app), car mount, Osmo, and Inspire 1: 

 

At one point we were working on a light weight (*feather weight) jib made out of carbon fiber pieces that you could backpack anywhere and build up to over 40 feet. The Osmo was so light that it just barely worked. The idea was...easy epicness in national parks. Sadly it never fully came together but there is one shot in the video using the set up (shot at 1:20).

Keep in mind, it's a little like dealing with Magic Lanern on the 5D3 or something. My tolerance for stuff like this might be different than other people's. It's quite a bit of work for less footage...not for doc or any kind of long form content. It's niche, for sure. 

2 hours ago, wolf33d said:

DJI has no cine line to protect and even then they don't care cannibalizing their own products.

Yes but they use Panasonic sensors and work closely with them, so they might be protecting that relationship.

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I am sure it is only a matter of time before DJI enters the mirrorless market.

For me, I would be happy to see a product less demanding than some of the suggestions in this thread. Basically the 1 inch sensor out of the Mavic 2 on a gimbal with a smartphone interface. Hopefully with 4k/60 and 10 bit DLOG recording. Could be small light and relatively inexpensive.

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 The OSMO raw is a piece of shit, I wouldn't even spend $100 for it. I used it for two day, it's bad, especially the mandatory transcoding is a pain and take forever.
The concept is good but this product was badly designed.

Actually I just shoot today with my cheap Zhiyun crane and the GH5, no need for more. It works great. Perhaps I'll try the BM4KPC on it unless I buy another GH5S (or wait for the S1/S1R). We have so many great affordable tools now. Gears is not an issue, procrastination is (for me)

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