DJI X5R (4K RAW) + Osmo + Inspire 1... anybody else with the same idea?

[cpc]

12 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Awesome. 

I think DJI could really improve this product if they added ProRes recording. Surely they have the ability to do this? 

If you are on Mac you can export ProRes from their ssd offload app (called cinelight). Probably a better idea to do this yourself in Resolve though.

29 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

 The 1080p RAW looks great.

One thing to keep in mind is x5r 1080p raw drops to 10-bit linear raw at high fps (definitely for 60fps, not sure about 48fps). It's a noticeable drop of quality compared to the 12-bit 1080p raw at lower fps.

[Parker]

1 hour ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Awesome. 

I think DJI could really improve this product if they added ProRes recording. Surely they have the ability to do this? 

Yeah, especially considering that whole exclusive selling deal Apple stores had with the phantom 4 for a couple weeks right upon release, which seems to indicate the two companies are pretty tight together... or at least much more so than other Chinese camera companies anyway, like Kinefinity, which has supposedly been struggling to acquire an above-board, fully legit pro res license for their cameras.

Pro Res on the osmo would be sweet. As amazing as they are must be, those are some huge, heavy files to be working with all the time. 

Either way, these are exciting times! The price drop this product gives to raw-4k shooting aerial platforms is just astounding. DJI is rocking the boat!

[Jonesy Jones]

Oliver, you are thinking what I've been thinking. I wrote about this in my NAB 2016 write up, and in another thread about drones. I think the idea of one camera that can be used in a ton of ways quickly and easily could be a massive game changer for some. I hovered around this camera at NAB and online for quite a while. However, I didn't go through with it for the following reasons (not necessarily in this order):

1. Price - for a camera/gimbal/drone set up that shoots 4K RAW it's actually not bad at all. But as an unexperienced drone operator, 1 wrong move and it's all over. It appears price may be coming down, though, so this may change things. A reduction in price would make this far more tempting.
2. Media cost - the proprietary SSD's are like $1500 or something. These need to come way down as I'd prefer a couple spares. Even at $1k they'd be pretty pricey... and proprietary... why?
3. Offloading - last I checked you needed their proprietary software and this was quite a painful process. If at least you could just dump it onto a hard drive, that would be one thing, but apparently you can't. What a pain.
4. Gimbal issues - these may get worked out, but to my knowledge there were issues with the gimbal connecting with the smartphone/monitor. I observed this issue at NAB. But again, perhaps this will be solved.
5. Batteries - they do not last long and you'd need a few. I don't remember them being ultra costly, but adds yet another cost. 

These are not deal breakers, but would be welcomed improvements:

1. C-fast - the SSD drive is bulkier than everything else, it definitely adds some weight and size, more than you'd think. C-fast is coming down in price and would make the whole card/drive way smaller and could handle the data.
2. Prores - as someone already mentioned this would be awesome. I think the system already records a prores reference file, but your choice of 4k prores flavors instead of RAW would be awesome. 
3. Tripod shooting - I would love some way to put this on a tripod without the motors having to be active, and to power with an external battery. One camera that could easily/quickly go from tripod to gimbal to drone would be amazing. It's almost there already. Seems like this would be an easy thing. Adding non-motorized tripod support would also open it to a ton of lenses that don't care about size and balance. 
4. External monitor - if I could use it on a tripod, then I'd like to monitor it with an external monitor. I don't know how hard this is, but it would really add to the overall value of the whole system. 
5. Shoots missiles - lots of governments would be interested, and would be super fun. 

[Oliver Daniel]

2 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Oliver, you are thinking what I've been thinking. I wrote about this in my NAB 2016 write up, and in another thread about drones. I think the idea of one camera that can be used in a ton of ways quickly and easily could be a massive game changer for some. I hovered around this camera at NAB and online for quite a while. However, I didn't go through with it for the following reasons (not necessarily in this order):

1. Price - for a camera/gimbal/drone set up that shoots 4K RAW it's actually not bad at all. But as an unexperienced drone operator, 1 wrong move and it's all over. It appears price may be coming down, though, so this may change things. A reduction in price would make this far more tempting.
2. Media cost - the proprietary SSD's are like $1500 or something. These need to come way down as I'd prefer a couple spares. Even at $1k they'd be pretty pricey... and proprietary... why?
3. Offloading - last I checked you needed their proprietary software and this was quite a painful process. If at least you could just dump it onto a hard drive, that would be one thing, but apparently you can't. What a pain.
4. Gimbal issues - these may get worked out, but to my knowledge there were issues with the gimbal connecting with the smartphone/monitor. I observed this issue at NAB. But again, perhaps this will be solved.
5. Batteries - they do not last long and you'd need a few. I don't remember them being ultra costly, but adds yet another cost. 

These are not deal breakers, but would be welcomed improvements:

1. C-fast - the SSD drive is bulkier than everything else, it definitely adds some weight and size, more than you'd think. C-fast is coming down in price and would make the whole card/drive way smaller and could handle the data.
2. Prores - as someone already mentioned this would be awesome. I think the system already records a prores reference file, but your choice of 4k prores flavors instead of RAW would be awesome. 
3. Tripod shooting - I would love some way to put this on a tripod without the motors having to be active, and to power with an external battery. One camera that could easily/quickly go from tripod to gimbal to drone would be amazing. It's almost there already. Seems like this would be an easy thing. Adding non-motorized tripod support would also open it to a ton of lenses that don't care about size and balance. 
4. External monitor - if I could use it on a tripod, then I'd like to monitor it with an external monitor. I don't know how hard this is, but it would really add to the overall value of the whole system. 
5. Shoots missiles - lots of governments would be interested, and would be super fun. 

 

Thanks for the comprehensive opinion there. 

Within the week, I'll have the funds available to get the Osmo and X5R... if I choose to.

I love the concept and I could see myself using it rather obsessively!

Your points are definitely worth thinking about - these are the solutions/non-solutions I can think of....

1. Price - for a camera/gimbal/drone set up that shoots 4K RAW it's actually not bad at all. But as an unexperienced drone operator, 1 wrong move and it's all over. It appears price may be coming down, though, so this may change things. A reduction in price would make this far more tempting.

My view is the same with other drones, regardless of the camera. You just have to know your stuff and be insured. It's one of those things. 

2. Media cost - the proprietary SSD's are like $1500 or something. These need to come way down as I'd prefer a couple spares. Even at $1k they'd be pretty pricey... and proprietary... why?

Yes, this is an absolute bastard! I was shocked when I researched this. How can an SSD cost that much? They give you an SSD with the camera itself! The only thing I can thing of is to shoot HD for a year, see if the price comes down on the SSD's. An extra SSD would be ideal. 

3. Offloading - last I checked you needed their proprietary software and this was quite a painful process. If at least you could just dump it onto a hard drive, that would be one thing, but apparently you can't. What a pain.

I'm not too fussed about this as I always have a Macbook on set with an external hard drive in case I need to dump some footage. 

4. Gimbal issues - these may get worked out, but to my knowledge there were issues with the gimbal connecting with the smartphone/monitor. I observed this issue at NAB. But again, perhaps this will be solved.

I think there was a firmware update to address this + battery issues. 

5. Batteries - they do not last long and you'd need a few. I don't remember them being ultra costly, but adds yet another cost.

I've heard they last about 30 minutes each with the X5R. They are pretty cheap though. Also you can use an extension cable to power it with a Ronin battery all day, however a little annoying having a Ronin battery on your belt. I guess it depends how long you intend to shoot for, and if you have nearby mains power or a small generator to keep batteries charging. 

[DBounce]

This camera is horrendous in low light.

[Jonesy Jones]

7 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

3. Offloading - last I checked you needed their proprietary software and this was quite a painful process. If at least you could just dump it onto a hard drive, that would be one thing, but apparently you can't. What a pain.

I'm not too fussed about this as I always have a Macbook on set with an external hard drive in case I need to dump some footage. 

Sounds good Oliver but I think you're missing my point. You CANNOT dump footage from this thing. You MUST use their proprietary software to view and then export footage from the card. Apparently it is very time consuming and a major pain. From what I've heard the software isn't bad, it's just a VERY time consuming process. You'll need those extra SSD's.

[Luke Mason]

18 minutes ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Sounds good Oliver but I think you're missing my point. You CANNOT dump footage from this thing. You MUST use their proprietary software to view and then export footage from the card. Apparently it is very time consuming and a major pain. From what I've heard the software isn't bad, it's just a VERY time consuming process. You'll need those extra SSD's.

Also currently there's no checksum when offloading footage, there's a high risk of bad frames.

[Oliver Daniel]

10 hours ago, DBounce said:

This camera is horrendous in low light.

I can't help but notice those higher ISO's are shot at f8, f11 and f16! Why not all at f2.8? 

6 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Sounds good Oliver but I think you're missing my point. You CANNOT dump footage from this thing. You MUST use their proprietary software to view and then export footage from the card. Apparently it is very time consuming and a major pain. From what I've heard the software isn't bad, it's just a VERY time consuming process. You'll need those extra SSD's.

Yes, I think what I mean is that the software is installed on the MacBook and the footage can be saved on set? I'll consult other users about the longevity. 

Need an extra SSD anyway. Especially when saving on set isn't an option and too time consuming. But that price....woah!!!

[DBounce]

3 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I can't help but notice those higher ISO's are shot at f8, f11 and f16! Why not all at f2.8? 

They would be over exposed.

[Oliver Daniel]

40 minutes ago, DBounce said:

They would be over exposed.

I understand that, but that example doesn't show a true representation of the X5R's lowlight capability. 

Who on earth goes around filming at ISO 3200 at f16? 

[Jimmy]

Yep, seems like a skewed, unrealistic test.... I can't imagine it was properly exposed, that would be an equivalent f-stop of f32 on an already dark scene.

Seemed to me they have underexposed all the shots and brought the exposure up in post, which would bring noise on even an A7s II.

Would be interested to see the originals.

[Oliver Daniel]

28 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Yep, seems like a skewed, unrealistic test.... I can't imagine it was properly exposed, that would be an equivalent f-stop of f32 on an already dark scene.

Seemed to me they have underexposed all the shots and brought the exposure up in post, which would bring noise on even an A7s II.

Would be interested to see the originals.

It's an awful test. Never trust the Internet. 

I've sold my Ronin-M so I'm a step closer to getting the Osmo Raw. 

Now looking to sell off my Kino Flo Diva kit, as my lights are all now battery operated. 

The only thing holding me back is the SSD's. Ridiculous pricing. Even getting just an extra one is steep. 

[Jimmy]

Yea mate, propriety storage is such a swindle.

I'm rooting for you to get it though as I am really interested to see the combo in talented hands

Now you have me starting to thinking about the X5R/Inspire combo again, this opening shot is stunning

 

Here is a more practical 1600ISO test...

 

[DBounce]

1 hour ago, Oliver Daniel said:

It's an awful test. Never trust the Internet. 

I've sold my Ronin-M so I'm a step closer to getting the Osmo Raw. 

Now looking to sell off my Kino Flo Diva kit, as my lights are all now battery operated. 

The only thing holding me back is the SSD's. Ridiculous pricing. Even getting just an extra one is steep. 

We have the X3 Osmo, and would love to have a more capable camera as an option. I'm not gonna jump on it yet. I need to see more footage before I am convinced. Looking forward to seeing your footage once you have had a chance to play with it.

[Jonesy Jones]

5 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

I can't help but notice those higher ISO's are shot at f8, f11 and f16! Why not all at f2.8? 

Yes, I think what I mean is that the software is installed on the MacBook and the footage can be saved on set? I'll consult other users about the longevity. 

Need an extra SSD anyway. Especially when saving on set isn't an option and too time consuming. But that price....woah!!!

Got it. Sounds like you know what you're getting into. I just didn't want this to be a nasty surprise. 

If you do go through with it please please please share your experiences.

[jonpais]

I'm stoked too, more interested in using it with a handheld gimbal than flying, though. But yeah, it's priced out of my league, since I wouldn't be earning money with it. Also, apparently, adding ND filters is going to mean fussing with balance all over again, one of the main reasons I'd be interested in this at all (I'm still trying to unload my Nebula 4000 because I never could get it balanced properly). 

[Oliver Daniel]

7 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Yea mate, propriety storage is such a swindle.

I'm rooting for you to get it though as I am really interested to see the combo in talented hands

Now you have me starting to thinking about the X5R/Inspire combo again, this opening shot is stunning

 

Here is a more practical 1600ISO test...

 

I do think it's going to happen. The temptation is too strong..... 

 

7 hours ago, DBounce said:

We have the X3 Osmo, and would love to have a more capable camera as an option. I'm not gonna jump on it yet. I need to see more footage before I am convinced. Looking forward to seeing your footage once you have had a chance to play with it.

I'll be getting the X3 as well as the X5R, could be useful for odd bits and bobs. 

 

5 hours ago, Jonesy Jones said:

Got it. Sounds like you know what you're getting into. I just didn't want this to be a nasty surprise. 

If you do go through with it please please please share your experiences.

The data is pretty scary and the SSD price.  I am also hot on the trail for the Kinefinity Terra. I'm looking to pair this up with the Osmo. If it's good that is  Going all out to make my kit much smaller, portable yet still very high end. 

4 hours ago, jonpais said:

I'm stoked too, more interested in using it with a handheld gimbal than flying, though. But yeah, it's priced out of my league, since I wouldn't be earning money with it. Also, apparently, adding ND filters is going to mean fussing with balance all over again, one of the main reasons I'd be interested in this at all (I'm still trying to unload my Nebula 4000 because I never could get it balanced properly). 

I'm more into the gimbal. I'll likely use it like crazy. Some people criticise the price, but I think the overall benefits make it worth it. 

Balancing doesnt seem to be "a thing" with this setup, the software is programmed to know the recommended lens, and an ND filter will only take a slight adjustment. DJI gimbals are solid are very responsive. 

[Oliver Daniel]

Well, I've managed to bag a cut price Inspire 1 v2. Lots and lots of practice required for the commercial Iicense. 

Will definately be getting the Osmo with X5R too, likely within the month. 

Now I'm broke! 

[Oliver Daniel]

Well I've just done it. 

Got hold of a DJI Inspire 1 RAW with the Osmo. 

Madness. 

[DBounce]

2 hours ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Well I've just done it. 

Got hold of a DJI Inspire 1 RAW with the Osmo. 

Madness. 

Awesome. It will be interesting hearing how you like it.