Super8

1 hour ago, anonim said:

With my brief indie shooting experience I have to strongly support this simply very logical question. Actually, I'm little bit shocked that anyone who ever worked and depended of group of person (even more if they are don't payed) during project session could minimize or overlook this isolate problem. I have to have at least two BM Pocket 4k camera (instead one 6k) at disposal because of their sort of uncertainty - but it's easy with 1200e camera.

Mr Neumann... shooting even short film with team of  just three actors, and thinking if or not you have 5min at disposal before or after overheating.... come on, really no.

I had 2 BMP6K's wet the bed and ruin a shoot over multiple days.  

I'll take short record times any day over ruined  color.  And the crazy thing is Black Magic is still selling the P4k and P6K as is.

3 hours ago, Cliff Totten said:

A Tesla is a very high tech car but what good is all that technology if the car breaks down all the time and leaves you stranded?
 

 

Tesla's don't break down.  You're kinda proving the negative media biased by bringing up Tesla as a technology case study.   Be real.

I filmed outside today in 92 degree weather.  My longest run time was 2:44 min. 

I don't think the R5 would have made it today.  But the S1H AF tracking would have failed also.

39 minutes ago, Trankilstef said:

Not so much a joke... After I left canon for Sony a few years back, and getting tired of waiting for the 10bit 422 at least from an external recorder, i switched back to an EOS R, so I experienced Sony and Canon autofocus. Now I own an S1H and it feels like going back to the good old 5d MkII days where you had no choise of getting the focus manually. I was a bit scared to going back to ONLY manual focus, and frankly it's not that bad. it comes back naturally if you've been used to do it manually in the dslr days, and now I don't complain about it so much. 
Sometimes on a few occasions on a shoot with clients I may miss the focus a bit, and I need to do another take, but it is way less problematic than I thought.
What strikes me with the S1h is the quality of the footage, the ergonomics, the unlimited recording with no overheating (I even never heard the fan start !), all the options etc. The drawbacks are lack of affordable native lens selection (but except for my 24-70 S Pro sometimes, I only shoot video with a 5 lenses Samyang cinema kit), and the continuous AF where it would have been of practical use sometimes).
Not to say I'm not waiting for the Sony a7SIII announcement to make a definitive choice (because you have a very good choice of lenses AND a very good autofocus), but for now the Canon EOS R5 leaves me a bit cold. Happy with what my S1H produces.

Phillip Bloom is about as straight forward as you get.

AF tracking for video, although no used in cine productions because it doesn't exist, is amazing and can save thousands of dollars a day on any set.  Now like I said AF tracking is not available on the Arri or RED or other $20,000+ cine cameras, yet.

1 hour ago, Matt James Smith ? said:

What if the interviewee finally gets comfortable at around 25min (not uncommon in my experience), drops their guard and starts revealing some really compelling emotional story? Do you say "oh can you wait 10 min while my camera recovers"? Or do you accept that you'll just use the second angle - guaranteed to be the one that doesn't let the viewer see the emotion in their eyes, or the tension in their gestures?

 

No you keep shooting because you have the 2nd camera rolling.   That 2nd angle should be just as good as your first angle.

I'm with you about the R5 not being ideal for interview shooting in any situation.

1 hour ago, Matt James Smith ? said:

It's not about it not being right for me, it's about it being unsuitable for 4K capture of interviews. 

What camera do you use now? or mostly use now?

I have a feeling your answer will be very informative.

41 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

LOL, its a joke or what. How many have you done. These thing must be rolling continuously for 2 or even 3 camera setup. You never know about how your subject is going to react to the camera.

My comment was about using TWO cameras as a work around with the R5.  Matt James Smith ? indicated that YOU WOULD HAVE TO STOP THE INTERVIEW while the R5 was cooling down.

Are we that amateurish that we think the interview talent WOULD ROLL for OVER an hour without ONE break? 

If you're talking "live event convention type settings" then why would you use the R5 ?  If you're in that setting delivering conference interviews and stage banter you get by with GH5 video quality and record all day. 

At some point image quality comes into play and all day shooting on the convention hall floor is not what the R5 should be used for.

26 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Probably they did.  Thats why they waited this long to release such info.

I think covid had an impact on the timing and delay. 

We still don't have a really good FF hybrid camera.  The S1H is expensive for a camera that has the same image quality as the S1 and Z6 with unusable AF. 

I would say the Nikon Z6S might be the camera to look out for.  If it comes in with 10bit internal and 4K60p and still keeps internal RAW then it checks all the boxes without having to deal with the cripple hammer. 

Who else feels like your birthday party got cancelled? 

I totally hate all the negative overheating reviews.  It's a PR nightmare that's Canon should have seen coming.

4 hours ago, Matt James Smith ? said:

This is nonsense. Shooting interviews is the backbone of my job and they regularly last longer than an hour. Especially the good ones. More importantly, you want the contributor to forget about the camera and you want to focus on the interviewing, not think about the gear. Stopping the interviewee mid-flow and asking them to start that question/sentence again can derail a well conducted interview. 

I assume recording time limit will be negated by an Atomos, so sorting a rock solid clamp for that shitty micro HDMI port will be priority #1 for me.

I never said stop the interview mid flow.

I said shoot with two cameras.   Lots of references for highly produced interviews shot with two cameras.  This keep the viewer interested in cutting to a different view during that 1-2 hour interview and I would hope you have great b-roll to work with also.  I might be wrong but I would think a 1 - 2 hour interview locked down, not cuts, would come out as a very dull interview.  

I perfectly understand that the R5 might not be for you. 

What do you shoot with now?  If money was no issue what camera would you use?

The R5 is $3,899 and R6 is $2,499.   The 4K60p from the R6 look impressive.  

You can also get the R5, R6 combo for weddings and live events.  

If we want to be positive it would be 4K60p, IBIS and Canon color for $2,499.  

The negative would be that Sony's A7SIII will be a Canon R6 spec copy.   If the A7SIII goes for R5 specs it will have the same over heating issues.

No interview is going to be stuck on the subject for 30 minutes straight.   You always have a second camera capturing a different angle.   The work around for the R5 recording limit is not that hard to do.

4 minutes ago, rawshooter said:

Well, Canon writes that you will get more than 20 minutes only when the internal temperature of the camera is lower than 14 degrees Celsius - that's 57 degrees Fahrenheit. Unless one shoots in Alaska or at the North Pole (or in a refrigerator), that's unlikely to happen.

It even seems as if the 23 degrees Celsius/74 degrees Celsius refer to the camera's internal operating temperature - then your real-life recording time will likely be much shorter than 20 minutes.

I know that sucks doesn't it?  WTF Canon?

2 minutes ago, rawshooter said:

Have you actually read the article, with the data sheet published by Canon?

 

Just to recall - @Andrew Reid republished this in the article:

4 minutes ago, Super8 said:

Quote

Hopefully it's not as bad as this thread and reaction make it out to be.

We will need to see just how sensitive the over heating issue is.  How those record times are in the real world.   As indicated they could be much shorter.

The A6500 is still being sold and in Florida I couldn't get more than 15 minutes of record time. 

This doesn't see like a good decision by Canon.

My first Sony was the A6500 and at the time it was great for what I needed it for.  On my first shoot it overheated all day long.   After 12-14 minutes it would happen. 

This was a job for just under 10K.  That night I went out and bought a G7 to finish shooting for Day 2. 

I hate overheating. 

I love Canon.

Hopefully it's not as bad as this thread and reaction make it out to be.

Where is this info coming from? 

The camera is not out and already it's the Sony overheating issue all over again.

10 hours ago, Geoff CB said:

I honestly think more people would have gone for the Z6 if Nlog was available internally. Even if it was 8-bit.

At this point I'm really looking at switching to Sony still cameras. Probably the new A7s sometime in the fall. Unless the Z6 v2 absolutely blows me away there are too many strikes against the Z system. Including it's abysmal support from 3rd party lens manufacturers and no cinema line to move up to and use native glass on. 

I love my Nikon z6 to death, especially for photo work. But I'm not making money off photography, I need to commit to a system that can handle all my needs for video. Also people in the industry shoot on Sony and Canon, no one I work with uses Nikon. Which is a big deal for a second camera operator on these shoots.

What kind of second camera work are you talking about? Are they using A7III and what Canon model?  

Second camera work with the Z6 rigged out or not will give you AF tracking in video, 10 bit out if needed and better color.   That's important for a second camera operator.

Good discussion everyone.

Nikon and the Z6 got hammered with bad reviews, fair reviews and spec diving that they couldn't recover from.   The Z6 even got hurt by "the A7SIII is gonna....." and this was 2 years ago.

I like what the S1 can do spec wise but bad AF tracking cripples it.  It looks like the same sensor as Z6 and is priced more. 

It all comes down to who you want to invest in. 

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

What do you suggest existing Z6 owners do?

Bearing in mind our cameras cost $2500 new and are now worth half!

Pony up the cash AGAIN for a few tiny improvements? Not going to happen!

The Z6S rumoured specs are insulting.

A new Z6 is going for roughly $1,795.   It seems to have held it's value.

The Z6S rumored specs with duel processor and card slot, 4K60p doesn't seem like an issue if it's more of a lateral move in price.  The "S" seems like it's a Mark II upgrade and not a new camera release.

Now Nikon needs to address the R5 / A7SIII models and deliver the "as close too" specs as they can.   We have the S1H and now R5 / A7SIII as flagship releases. 

I actually like the Z6S rumor because it pushed upgrades but not all the way to 6K or 8K and Nikon can still do RAW OUT.   

7 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Nobody said that he was the only one, but he is at the live event so I think it is safe to asume that at least he got one already. 

Seem they invested in popular social media figures instead of filmmakers that shoot shortfilms/commercials,  or maybe not. We will see. I do miss those years where camera's were given to "Vincent Laforet" for the C300 commercial, or Philip Bloom for the GH3 commercial,... those were the kind of video's that made me want to buy the camera's. (and I did) 

 

Canon has a gear loan program.  Is this what Bloom and others were working with?

MDR-V600

Not headphones but I just picked up a pair of pair Dahlquist DQM-9 speakers.

Incredible all around.  I forgot to think about what camera it was filmed with.   The footage looks amazing.

This is starting to talk to me.......a........little.

40 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Not sure what you mean by that.  There was other stuff that I was told which was more serious, but it felt wrong to bring it up here.  In the end, I gave the job to someone else.  

I was joking.

4 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Wow, over reaction or what... 😄

My point was on Facebook, you don't often see a resume.  And if they don't post links either, not even their work.

There are people on Facebook who do share their work.  I don't doubt their credentials or experience.  Its there to see.  So yes, I do trust a guy on Facebook with a resume and links, if there to see.

And as for face to face.  I'm reminded of an incident years ago, when interviewing a friend of a friend for the position as 2nd cameraman to some work I was doing.  I befriended him on Facebook and arranged to meet him.  It was a good interview, he spoke at length of his experience, which was very impressive.  He seemed a little cocky in his talk, but I had no reason to doubt his word.  However, as I was nervous, employing someone for the first time, I did contact a nearby company he worked for, whose work I was aware of.  She told a very different story to this guy.  Of how he walked out of a job after getting into an argument with a Wedding guest.  Plus a few other things that worried me.

So that was face to face, him being a friend of a friend and having him as a Facebook friend.  Trust is a complicated process, especially with social media. 

Forums are wonderful tools for learning and sharing, but that doesn't mean I take at word every Tom, Dick or Harry saying this, that and everything.

I have made great friends and connections on Facebook that are professional.   Friends recommend people for a reason and it goes both ways. 

"That wasn't my fault.  I did my job on that wedding and that wedding guest had issues" Lol. 

25 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

But whatever, do what you like, it's not my forum anyway and whatever comeback you now make...because you won't be able to help yourself, won't elicit a response from me.

 

One thing I know I have and that's talent.   Talent in creativity, photography, vision and getting the shot.   You can take that any way you want.

11 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Even knowing a person's name and Facebook profile doesn't automatically mean you trust any knowledge shared.  If their profile is private, aside from knowing their face and some basic details, it shares little of a person's experience.

I could easily say on Facebook that I was once a cameraman for a Royal Wedding (not true 😄), and my name and Facebook profile wouldn't necessarily support or deny that statement.

People still hide behind a Facebook profile and say whatever they want to say, simply because they are behind a keyboard and screen and not face to face.

What?  This is crazy talk.  Right?   So now you don't trust a guy on Facebook's with a resume and links? 

So you only trust people face to face?   

This sounds like jealous snowflake,  "you don't have what someone else has" thinking. 

I'm not a big shot director or cinematographer but people like you and @MrSMW motivate me to get to the big time just to prove a point.