Super8

3 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

Build a new model, an R5s for example.  Panasonic did something similar as their S1H differed from the S1 body, and put video centre.  Canon need a body that puts video first.  With the R5, the video specs features heavily in their marketing, but the R5 doesn't match what they say on their website-

"I believe the fundamental issue in the Canon's overheating is a combination of using H265 and Canon's reliance on their old in house nm silicon production."

Besides designing a new body could they not use H265 ?

Quote

"The EOS R5 uncompromising performance will revolutionise your photography and filmmaking."

No it doesn't.... 

If you look at the image quality it's clearly at another level than the A7SIII.  So maybe it will "revolutionise your photography and filmmaking."?  

People are starting to see and realize Sony's color issues.  You also can't get around overheating in direct sunlight. 

3 hours ago, Nezza said:

I believe the fundamental issue in the Canon's overheating is a combination of using H265 and Canon's reliance on their old in house nm silicon production.

Without custom chips H265 is a real CPU hurter. Encoding 8K or high FR 4K in H265 really stresses the camera CPU, this combined with old, less power efficient nm fabrication is whats causing the overheating. 

Which means a firmware update ain't going to fix what are much more fundamental issues. Although the canboys think Canon can just push out a firmware update and all will be well. Delusional!

  

How can they solve the problem?

On 7/25/2020 at 10:29 AM, anonim said:

Thanks for this note... I don't know what he changed, but difference for me is obvious. Somewhere in these threads my first reaction about first promo clip was that natural transitions of skin tone colors somehow for me didn't look so naturally unnoticed, or 'smooth', as in UMP G2 (especially in black skin tone)... As something was slightly off with some 'jumping' nuances, or fine but noticeable off color casts and lightening decisions... But this one last example is so enjoyable to watch and feel, something almost as paintеd work of portraiture - I mean as with some very rare tactile-illusion quality.

It looks like the same footage except color corrected that took our IR pollution in Resolve.  It has the same window scene that I cleaned up and posted about.

By the way I like the BM12K camera a lot more now.

Recall and Out of Stock notices are not the same.  Rumors are rumors.   Sounds like it's more of a image marketing issue that Canon knows they can't win with negative doom and gloom You Tubers. 

Has anyone tested or released a street production model?  

Canon is a big enough company to have 3 different part options for everything in the R5.  Going with top of the line composites is not always the case.   Canon engineers have this covered.  Look what happened with Nikon Z6 and sending the camera in for an upgrade to record Pro Res RAW externally?  

Why is Canon being given a harder time about over heating compared to Sony overheating and color issues?  This does not seem fair and not sure why the mob mentality has taken over? 

Nikon got crushed for 1 card slot,  Panasonic for bad AF,  Canon for the cripple hammer but Sony gets a pass for overheating in the sun and bad color science that needs profiles and Resolve to fix?

I need to buy a camera for an up coming Neflix pitch.   I would love to get the S1H and be done with it.  My only concern with the S1H is color depth.

1 hour ago, mechanicalEYE said:

 

WOW.

The moving images are incredible. 

Canon must be betting on the eye test to win people over.   Timeless images. 

R5 is back in the running for me. 

1 hour ago, PabloB said:

I don't believe that's true. Nikon when they released the Z6 it had a ton of sharpening on the image. Sony was in my eyes is just very detailed from the downsampling. Canon with their aggressive AA filter give a nice image feel at the expenses of detail which many like and some don't -  just different philosophies.

You can turn down the sharpening on the Z6.  It depends on what mode you shoot with but you can turn it all the way down.

1 hour ago, Danyyyel said:

Where did you find the DR lacking in Nikon's. I mean in some test Nikon Flat profile competes already well with Canon Log profile. I haven't done enough test myself but Nikon log gives you even more DR and highlight Roll off are among the best in the MLC cameras I have seen. What useful features, they have excellent ergonomics, Ibis, viewfinder and construction. What do they miss. For example I was laughting when the leaked BH of the A7S3 came out because the guy was so wow about doing rack focus with the back touch screen. I mean I have been doing it on my Z since it started. By the way, they were the first to give 422 video ot, 10 bit FF camera and even RAW.

Yeah the "Z6 DR is lacking" comments are coming out of no where over the last 3 days.

1 hour ago, luizhmgoncalves said:

Yes, I believe it is going to work on many machines.
But on his video it didn't playback realtime on a Mac pro with the vega 2 card and 12 core CPU. 
 

So I decided to try for myself on my humble Ryzen 1600 with RX570 card.
Resolve and all drivers are the last updates.
And it didn't playback realtime, but the footage from A7s 3 works really well since it is H264 10bit.

In this fast test I set the timeline to 29,976fps for the Canon R5 footage. 
A7s3 footage is in 50fps.
In the end I add a pocket 4k footage BRAW 24fps.
Playing R5 H256 the CPU was maxed out at 100%, then it droped to 25% with the A7s3, and finaly 15% for the Pocket 4k BRAW.
 

 

I don't know for what kind of machine I would have to upgrade to play these H265 files realtime.
Dont know if you guuys have tried any of these footages, but if yes, let us know about the performance.
 

Premier might not be the best software to use for playback.   FCPX might have a better chance working with H265.

No one was doing this 8 years ago.

Nikon did give us ProRes RAW , 10bit 4K out and the better mirror-less camera for the last 2 years.   They will lose that title now but the Z6s should actually be a great camera.  Nikon had no reason to give us ProRes RAW , 10bit 4K but they did.

The new Z6s is rumored to have dual processors.  What could this unlock?   4k120p or 4K60p ? or 4K10 bit internal?

The Z6s should be inline with the R6 as far as specs go.

2 hours ago, Simon Young said:

Thank you for your concern but I’ve managed to make the 8bit s-log from previous Sonys look just fine in DaVinci so I’m not really worried. If you can’t get a decent image out of the a7siii I don’t think the camera is to blame.

I suggest you get an Alexa LF and be done with it.

Official Sony A7SIII videos have issue with color.   For a flag ship camera you shouldn't have to worry about your color being off should you?   I think at some point you do blame the camera and not assume it's the lighting or grade don't you think?  Like what you like but don't make excuses for it's faults.   

51 minutes ago, Nezza said:

Oh colour science

Oh colour science is definitely a thing it's just people are very very subjective about it and there's a ton of brand loyalty that isn't born out by the actual pictures people prefer.

Tony asked people who they *thought* had best colour science (winners Canon and Nikon) then he got the same people to choose their favourite colour science on a blind picture test.

Canon and Nikon came bottom (with negative scores) Sony came top and obvs Sony is perceived to have relatively worse colour science. People are brand fan boys - who knew!

One or two pictures don't tell the story of color science does it?  It means they liked color in those two pictures.

1 minute ago, Matthew19 said:

I'm convinced that Canon shooters judge skin tones at the gut level and Sony shooters judge it with their eyes. This won't make sense to a lot people. 

I judge color with my eyes.  It's easy to do. 

Now making excuses for color that you see with your eyes is what Sony users do.

2 hours ago, scotchtape said:

I love it when people complain about skin tones in heavily graded YT videos them conclude the color science is trash. Big brain time.

I'll admit the sooc files from my a7iii with artificial light can be horrendous, however once corrected they look great to me.

Resolve really helps, without those color tools I don't know that I would be as satisfied with the color.

Big brain time should tell you if a heavy grade doesn't balance out skin tones then the color science captured is a hot mess.

Resolve is great but not all footage should have to be FIXED to the extent Sony's have to be fixed. 

2 hours ago, jgharding said:

So I know they were saying "FX9 colour, everything is fine now" but I watched this official video and her skin is doing the "Sony thing", jumping from yellow, to magenta, to magenta blotches in low light.

I guess I'll have to try one out and see how it is IRL, but this doesn't fill me with confidence...

The initial shot is nice, but the blue light ones she is blue and magenta, in blotches, the tunnel ones she is yellow...

I don't know what's at play here, ISO colour shift, how the sensor reacts to different lights (it seems to be having a horrible time with bluer than daylight and those tunnel lights, which are probably fluros) but it's not a good advert for the camera.

In the Kitchen video there's also some weird stuff going on with the tungsten lights going very yellow too.

 

 Are Sony's Cine engineers not allowed to work with the mirror-less department? 

It's clear Sony can't get low cine color correct.  If you look at all camera brands you'll see color science that moves down through generational product lines.   That's why you hear Nikon color or Canon color or Fuji color talked about.  

You never see brands change their color science around.  It is subjective but it also comes down to over all color science, iso shift and shadow color hue and depth or the lack of the latter two. 

OMG that color is not good at all.  

2 hours ago, Simon Young said:

Word. I’m buying this camera for sure. And I agree we need to see more testing with regards to overheating: what cards are they using, temperature outside, codec (I hear the h265 runs hotter) and so on. But I’m confident it will run just fine at 4K 24p All-I. 

Word.  You might want to be concerned about the color from this camera.

29 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Pixel binned 4k has no heating limits, awesome 😬😬😬

It was actually showing recovery times.  

3 hours ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Not really as I don't think the Canon is usable under any circumstance if its overheating in an air conditioned building indoors and takes 2 hours to cool down. 

Its not a new thing for Sony though, the A73 would overheat quickly outdoors in direct sun. In that crazy Flordia sunlight camera test I think the A73 lasted 5 minutes lol. Most situations don't call for your camera being left to bake in the sun though. 

Not even being able to record video after a 1 hour stills session is what the Canon is offering. I don't think the Canon received the scrutiny it did for overheating while baking in the sun. 

3 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Canon had stated 30 mins in most cases at 23°C. Sony states 1 hour or until the battery drains at 25°. I am guessing neither is superb., but Sony's claims are conservative compared to the actual performance. I've had a camera shut down in direct sunlight once (though that was at 40-46°C). Everyone should keep mentioning the temperature, in the shade and in the sun, indoors or outdoors. Camera makers can't be forgiven for making cameras that only work in the air conditioner temperature ranges (16-25°C). That's a camera for little children, not a professional work horses. 

Sony is also kicking recording of to Atomos recorder to avoid overheating issues.  Apples to Apples.

What does the R5 do out to an Atomos recorder?

4 minutes ago, noone said:

That kind of makes sense.

The Sony handles heat from within the camera far better but not so good with heat from an external source while the Canon is lousy at dealing with the internal heat but better at heat coming from outside??

The Canon must be very well insulated which would be a plus for anything but heat build up inside from using it.

Of course it also probably means the Sony will cool down a lot quicker and be usable again earlier.

Not so sure about that.  I think Canon is  processing higher data rates internally compared to the A7S3. 

Just now, Nezza said:

Because he's not just shooting for YouTube but his own/client projects and wants to standardise on one platform for workflow reasons. Not that difficult. 

That's what I was asking.  Thanks.

6 minutes ago, Zeng said:

As much as I love Z6 and have hopes Z6s brings certain improvements, it's going to use same sensor, which means 12 bit ADC. Which gives 12 stops of DR more or less. While mostly this is ok for me, Sony's 16bit output could bring 1-2 additional real stops which is tempting. Hate to say this as I never like Sony cameras. Well, up to now...

Do we know it's the same sensors as the Z6 ?  I would think they would have anew "Sony" sensor to work with.

1 hour ago, Video Hummus said:

He makes long form content where he stand sin from of the camera for hours. So he must feel confident in its overheating performance in a studio.

Are you talking about his You Tube video content?  Why would he need the A7S3 or R5 for that content? or the C300II ?

12 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

I sincerely hope that we will get internal 10 bit and log. What is a given is that we are getting dual card slot and 4k 60 fps. It would be a dream to get 120 fps, even if it is time limited 1 to 5 mins or even cropped. What would also set it apart would be to just give the full 6k raw out of the sensor even only in up to 30 fps mode. But with the dual expeed processor they are putting how much thermals will limit the camera.

Except for Canon I think Sony and Nikon have really good cameras coming out.  

My best take is Nikon gives us 4K120p out at a higher quality than the A7s3 and better 4K60 internal also. 

I think the dual processors will take the load off the sensor and I don't think Nikon will have heat issues.   Nikon will use HDMI to the Atomos when it's needed.   The Nikon workflow out to the Atomos and I'm fine with that if they give better quality and more options with external recording.

3 minutes ago, Django said:

I don’t see anyone talking about the very low expected rolling shutter. We got a preview of it from that German Vlog (I’m now 99% sure it was shot on A7S3). 
 

That’s another really strong edge for this camera IMO opening up all kinds of action shots and fast camera movements. Pretty excited to find out more about that.

Good point.  

5 minutes ago, Danyyyel said:

If the z6s had the spec like that or just 10 bit log internal with 60 fps 4k I would be in heaven. For me the as a hybrid shooter the 24 megapixel is more important, so I would not even mind a 1 to 5 minutes 120 fps 4k because who shoots 120 fps 4k for 30 minutes... Just derushing that is like 2.5 hours of 24p!!!

I actually think Nikon has the advantage of making the Z6s sit between the R5 and A7SIII.  

It also seems like RAW externally over HDMI was a thermal issues as much as a rights issue.   I don't see anything in the A7SIII that the Z6s can't do. 

That 4K 120fps is 100Mbps.  That seems low doesn't it?

Not sure if this has changed or not but this is from Canon's website.  

Record times with recovery times. 

Look at the descriptions to the right.  

"8K productions where a full-frame mirrorless can be utilized to get unique angles alongside a main camera or additional cropping for 4K productions."

4K120fps "Shorter bursts of slow motion."

4K30P  "Interviews, longer duration capture such as weddings."

Working Temperature Range 32-104° F / 0-+40°C

Looks like they're covering their bases. 

Looks like a really good design that's more than a fan.   I would suspect that they had a heads up on Canon's heating issue and had time to design this the right way.

QUESTION:  Now is this a better cooling system design then what the S1H has built internally?

I will guess this takes away all heating issues with the R5.  Fan noise might be the same as the S1H also.

I'm not an expert but all the negative and exhausting testing reviews about overheating should eliminate any class action lawsuits.