Super8

Canon needs to have a cine camera in the Komodo price point and small form factor.  This would also solve the longer record time issue the R5 has.  We are merging into 4k60p / 120p and up as with external Atomos screen and recorder as being standard spec road map.  It's not about the best image quality any more.

1 hour ago, Ashit Tandon said:

To me the skin tones just always look harsher on Sony. Never had this issue with Canon and Fuji. Is there a technical reason for this?

 

Maybe skin tone issues have to do with luma and color gamma issues.  I think Sony has always lifted these values to gain an advantage with low-light performance.  They add NR and you have great low-light performance.  If you lift these values past a point you have color shift issues. 

If you lower them you gain detail but the image will start to fall apart on any camera.  The other issue is WB.  The more blue or green you add to the shot the more it affects yellow to red values.   You can pull blue and green out of shots but you don't want this to be your starting point.  

I don't think you're suppose to measure the screen on the back of the camera. 

I have better Samsung phone photo color compared to A7S3 mountain range footage.  Someone help me understand why the A7S3 footage is so underwhelming.  I believe the A7S3 has luma color and gamma issues. 

Sony mirrorless cameras have never had "thick color" except the A9 II in some cases.Canon has "thick color".  I believe this has to do with color science and DR placement.  Why? Shadow color and mid tone DR.

Let's not blame You Tube for bad color and washed out footage.  RED, Canon and others don't have issues like this. 

2 hours ago, kye said:

I understand what rolling shutter is.

Let me explain even more clearly.  If I pick up a camera and shake it while recording, I get motion in the footage because the camera is pointing in a different direction when each frame was exposed.  This is called camera motion.  If that motion is caused by something like a smooth pan or tilt or is very gradual and smooth, then the motion will have a certain aesthetic, but if that motion is not smooth, but is very jerky with lots of small motion, then it will have a different aesthetic.

Engaging a Global Shutter so that the whole frame begins and ends it's exposure at the same time (hey look - I did know what a global shutter is!) does not negate the fact that the camera is facing a slightly different direction each time a frame was exposed.  IBIS, on the other hand, actually does negate the fact that the camera is facing a slightly different direction each time a frame was exposed, and under the right situation, will remove that motion from the footage.

I get that you dislike the aesthetic of RS, and so switching to GS "fixes" it for you, but I dislike jittery camera motion, which GS does not fix.

I'd link to a video explaining the differences between IBIS and GS in order to reflect back your level of condescension when you fail to understand what someone is saying and automatically respond by thinking you're smarter than them, but I don't think that anyone would have made a video on the topic because the differences are obvious.  Or so I thought.

I understand that you need IBIS based on your set up and how you film.  I sent you a PM.

I do not get personal with my comments or how I make them so I would expect the same from you next time. I'm just trying to help. Thanks -

59 minutes ago, kye said:

I guess my point was that they're not the same.

For example, I've seen enough 8mm hand-held footage to know I don't like the hand-held motion, it just looks amateur to me.  I shoot hand-held due to the limitations of how and where I shoot, but I don't want that amateur look.  The only ways to counter that are to put it on some kind of support (which I can't do), to make the rig heavier so micro-jitters don't happen (which I can't do for where I shoot, or can't hold all day, or both), or to have some kind of optical stabilisation, like IBIS.

IBIS has its limitations and I'll be the first to admit it's not a miracle by any means, but it allows me to get non-shaky looking footage with a compact and light-weight setup, which GS does not do.

Watch Komodo global shutter footage I posted again.  It is not 8mm hand-held footage armature looking motion.

I don't think you understand what GS really is.   GS is scanning the whole sensor at the same-time.   It is not stabilization.  The shake or hand held movement you see in GS has nothing to do with GS. It's all from the camera operator.  The fact that you have a stable readout from a full scanned sensor means as the camera operator you won't cause your footage to fall apart based on your movement.........i.e.  jitters, rolling shutter, motion blur. 

Slow Rolling Shutter sensor read out is doing more to your footage then slanted fence post and micro-jitters.   Yes IBIS corrects as much as it can but it also doesn't. 

Please watch the video below. 

1 hour ago, Coiii said:

I'm on the same boat. I was waiting months for the R5 and Canon fucked up. Then the A7SIII happened and the ONLY thing I was expecting didn't happened (cinetone). I'm done and tired of this game. I just sold my BMPCC4K  kit a few days ago and thinking to do the same with my Sony A7III kit and stuff. Just keeping my Canon L glass and save a little more for the Komodo.

I posted about the same-thing in a Canon thread.    I'm going Komodo and the Z6 with Atomos.   I'm tired of the gear wars and the fact that people can't see with their eyes anymore.  

It's like watching the football team you hate, that has the best QB in the NFL.  You hate them so much you can't acknowledge that he's got talent and is a great player.   I got over this long ago with sports. 

So far the Komodo specs and footage show me I've been waiting for the next mirrorless camera that might move closer to the cinema camera look. 

1 hour ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

What are you talking about? The video you linked was posted in 1080p. The compression is so bad you can't tell what the ISO performance is. 

 Again dynamic range and ISO tests haven't really been done to see what kind of sensor this camera has. But yes I'd rather have a Pocket 6k if it gives more dynamic range and better ISO performance or an S1H with prores RAW. 

 

The video of the plane was shot in 6k. 

I'm not sure what you're getting at?  Are you trying to bring negative comments into this thread without coming out and saying how you feel?

12 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Kind of useless in HD. 
 

 

Did you really take a screen shot from you tube at HD?

I'm not going to get into debating that mirrorless cameras have better low-light capabilities.  If you can't see the advantages of this camera then mirrorless is the way to go for you.

It might also help to read the comments from the guy that created that video.

4 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

I've seen a clip at 12,800 iso it had bad fixed noise pattern. Kinda like what I see from the URSA 4.6K. Need to see more reasonable tests at 3200 and 6400. But its not a good sign. 

Will need to see some actual dynamic range tests but at $6000 it better give more than say the Pocket 6k at $2000. 

That's just me though. I use to obsess over rolling shutter but as long as its reasonable I don't really notice unless for very specific shots. 

If the AF is really good that will be a big deal. 

Here's a low light comparison.

1 hour ago, kye said:

I disagree.  IBIS can reduce and even eliminate hand-shake to create smoother and even locked-off shots, whereas global shutter means that whatever movement is there isn't removed, it's just far less objectionable.  Also, IBIS on wide lenses can combine with lens distortion and RS to create wobbling that global shutter does not introduce.

So IBIS and GS both have strengths and weaknesses, but aren't equivalent.  They're different tools for different jobs.

GS is not the same as IBIS.

Global shutter is a complete scan of the sensor where a rolling shutter is a partial scan of the sensor.  

Rolling Shutter affects all movement in my opinion.  We film and live in a 3D parallax world. 

I use a Ronin S because IBIS can only do so much. 

I will honestly go with the RED Komodo (Canon glass) and Z6 with the Atomos to create content.  

All this negative pilling on makes me sick.   Ok, we get it.   At least with RED and Nikon I'm away from the negativity.   

2 minutes ago, MeanRevert said:

That sample video looks great although you can also see how close the Blackmagic came to it.

The RED footage looks nothing like Blackmagic footage.  

13 minutes ago, Yurolov said:

GS gives you locked off shots if you are steady, but even if there is motion it is much more organic and pleasing - yes the motion is like film. Ibis is unpredictable and you cannot rely on it for sure 100%. I know with my GS camera, the way the image looks when moved craps all over anything with ibis. It is pleasing and smooth whether i pan, walk, etc. 

What GS camera do you have?

1 hour ago, Yurolov said:

it is a fake comparison of luts. the roll-off is applied in camera for the red. pure speculation on DR but global shutter has problems for DR so we will see. 

I am sure the Red will look nicer but it is also x5 more expensive if you add on all the accessories you need. 

Still we wait to see someone independent doing a proper test though to find out true flaws.

DR is in the clips and perfectly fine.  I think he mentions it in the video.

What do your eyes see in the video?  Global shutter does what it's suppose to do. Clean color and not heavily graded. 

I'm not sure why people make back handed comments when footage is posted that 99% agree looks good.   Color, DR, motion cadence and no rolling shutter.  

3 minutes ago, thebrothersthre3 said:

Global shutter is cool but as long as the RS isn't too bad I'd rather have high ISO performance and dynamic range. 

We don't know what ISO performance this has do we?   Global shutter is rather new to most of you but you can tell the difference right away. 

I don't like what the Aivascope Anamorphic adapter does to this footage.

1 minute ago, anonim said:

I like Komodo approach very much, after following first very disappointing  footage samples that one last posted finally confirm great quality - and for 6000$ for black version it beats even lowest Dragon. But regarding actual world's circumstances and prospects, it is almost exclusively USA product. It will not help RED to get broader costumers and will still stay as niche product... in the movie art/industry that now is extremely democratized and descended down to masses all round the world.

Knowing little bit of circumstances in Chine, I'd say that Chinese manufacturers now just desperately wait first decision of some sort of government support to start more seriously to conquer the market. At the moment, BM with extremely swift and clever approach rapidly takes more and more of the widest user base.

Why is the Komodo a USA only product?

2 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

Yes, but the image seems to be still better than most mirrorless cameras. It has AF. It has the mythical compressed internal RAW everybody wants, it has the DR, it has a more manageable size, it doesn’t have accessory lock-in.

It lacks IBIS, and mirrorless ergos, and weather sealing.

I don’t know. Time will tell. But it might be the better “mirrorless” camera than the latest mirrorless cameras.

RED was smart to offer something like this. It is the gateway drug.

Good post.  I love the "It is the gateway drug." comment.

I think RED has now given us great organic cine quality image for a little more money than the flagship mirrorless camera.

It's not a hybrid so it's not for everyone.

The Komodo global shutter eliminates the need for IBIS.

The Zcam looks promising but I don't think it will keep it's resale value at all compared to the Komodo.

I think most people don't mind spending more if you get:

- image quality that you don't have to make excuses for

- Great color balance

- A brand that's not going away

- A brand embraced by the cine world

- A future proof camera based on quality

42 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

I think this is where cameras are heading. Higher-end pro tools at higher end pro prices. The mirrorless cameras will be eaten alive by camera phones with 1” sensors and better software. It’s coming.

 

This is the opposite of what RED has done with the Komodo.   This is the lowest priced RED ever produced. 

I'm impressed with this footage.  Global shutter? Now that's awesome.

What does everyone think?  Is this going to be affordable ?

47 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

What does that have to do with what I said about testing ?

I thought I hit reply to Andrew's comment.  My bad.

On 8/2/2020 at 2:20 PM, BTM_Pix said:

The TempStatus pre-dates the R5/R6 and has been part of the Canon firmware for a long time and is there for a reason for that so none of this is new for them in testing so it begs the question why more seemingly wasn't done to test it in simulated real environments.

Covid makes everyone have a bad first QTR.

Andrew what's your take on the footage from the last two videos above?

2 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

Don't understand at all, in theory their could be speed boosters for MF lens, but why, isn't full frame already shallow enough. Nikon even have the 58 mm 0.95 NOCT. You already have a ton of adapters from Nikon Z mount and Nikon has the FTZ adapter that give you access to a ton of Nikon Fmount lens and all the compatible Zeiss etc.  https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=zeiss nikon&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma

Nikon own Z lens are from extremely good to exceptional, but more for autofocus than manual focus as they are fly by wire. In fact for myself I intend to buy a set of Nikon AFS lens, I already used the 50 1.8 and it worked super good even with autofocus. I must get a 35 and 85 mm. I already got some older lens that will be pure manual focus. I did this video for a friend crowd funding project for a organic community farm to help people in the tourism industry impacted by the virus. This is like a teaser, he is the guy at the start and 1.45 . These were done with AFS 1.8 the rest were done with the Nikon Z 24-70 f4S, it was done very fast because weather was not good during the 2 days we shot s seen in the drone shot at the start.

 

 

Thanks for the Nikon videos and comments.   I don't think you're hijacking this thread at all and your post contain good information. 

Maybe you'll help people understand choices or systems they thought were DOA or systems they thought they had to live with.  

I am very happy Sony pushed media storage options, 4K60p, 120Kp and RAW external recording. 

You produced beautiful work my friend.  Did you record internal or external for the video above?