Super8

1 hour ago, Márcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

It was shot from our own @John Brawley, if people come back to treat him well here he could give some useful insights.

Maybe even for the troll of the other thread which says that a camera without IBIS or PDAF is not useful...

No one's a troll except maybe your attitude towards someone else that has a different opinion than you. 

IBIS and PDAF are useful tools especially in the $1,500 to $4,000 camera range market.  

You talk about people treating @John Brawley good so he'll come back but you call someone else a troll and talk down to that person.   That's hypocritical.

7 hours ago, Sid said:

Apologies if the test footage was already posted:-

 

Clean color is good.

I would have rather had global shutter 6K with 14 stops. 

If Drive-In Theaters make a comeback 12K down to 8K might be the future in theatrical release motion pictures.  

On 7/14/2020 at 1:55 PM, Beritar said:

I hope the IBIS will be better on the new A7SIII ...

Canon R5 :

 

 

You can't beat accurate color from Canon.  That sucks for everyone else.

1 hour ago, Nezza said:

The event is expected to last more than 20 mins. Just a heads up for any R5 shooters at the event.

Haha.  Sony will have the same record limits as the R5.  Wait and watch.

12k to get good 8K and then 4K 240p ?

This is BM raising their pricing level.   Now the $4,995 BM looks better and the $1995 P6K looks great.  

It's sad that they didn't give us a better sensor with better organic DR and color like the original BM cameras.   

BM had a chance to reset the field and they decided to shock the industry instead of making a better product. 

5 hours ago, Inazuma said:

Holy shit. This guy needs to learn to use cameras before he starts making videos about them. What the hell. 

He knows how to use it.  

Every Nikon review he's done has been negative on purpose and a hit job.  

36 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

BP-U, a small screen/evf maybe like the FS7/FX9 that doesn't chew through batteries (i'd add an external monitor anyway) and most of us in the pro sector would be very happy. I have the Pocket4k and 6K myself and use them as B Cams to Alexa and FX9 etc but they are a PITA to work with.
 

Why wouldn't you use the Ursa Mini G2 next to the Alexa / FX9?   You're in the PRO SECTOR so why not spend a little more production money and get what's already available?

What is the Pro Sector?  Is that the union thing ?

19 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

AF can be good for some I suppose but then there aren't many lenses I would want to use that have AF motors. 

Personally, I don't want a quarter of the cost of a camera going into AF hardware and r&d. It's no where near as easy for BMD to implement a great and reliable AF system when they don't have their own lens mounts, lenses etc. And given the variety of cameras they make, one mount or AF system is not going to fit all.

 

BMD, give me a S35 or FF sensor with interchangeable lens mounts (if not interchangeable, must be a mirrorless mount with short flange distance like Canon's RF mount), built in ND, a box form factor that is easily expandable, a good battery mount like NP-F or BP-U, a small screen/evf maybe like the FS7/FX9 that doesn't chew through batteries (i'd add an external monitor anyway) and most of us in the pro sector would be very happy. I have the Pocket4k and 6K myself and use them as B Cams to Alexa and FX9 etc but they are a PITA to work with.

But then, if BMD did in fact get input from the likes of JB, I would assume we would see something far more workable than the Pockets.

I said it years ago, but an URSA Micro Pro (Z-Cam like) would be great.

I was talking in general terms about AF and what Andrew said. 

The great thing is you can turn AF off and go manual.  

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Personally, I don't want a quarter of the cost of a camera going into AF hardware and r&d.

Where did you get that number?

Traditional camera companies have the advantage having to produce AF over the years.   

It seems like the people talking down about AF tracking have never used it.   It also comes with the "I'm a purest attitude that DP's in cinematography never use AF".   I can tell you for a fact if AF was available for RED or ARRI and worked like it does in the mirror less world then big productions would be using it and loving it.   It's technology that works and makes the job easier. 

BM needs to figure out IBIS and work on releasing that very soon.

5 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Most recent manual focus full frame film below, tiny crew, basically one DP.

I get what you're saying - AF makes things easily for a single operator.

But there are now a number of very high profile feature films with a single camera operator (even Oscar nominated) shot on small manual focus cameras like the GH2, 5D 3, and in similar manner to Sigma Fp in Sin-sin for instance (GH2 sometimes at F0.95 no less).

Not only are they artistically a successful cinematic achievement, the smaller camera and more direct hands-on control for the director and cinematographer was the primary reason for getting away from ARRI or a RED.

AF also has a tendency to do what the machine wants, rather than the human.

No AF is bullet proof.

If it wonders off, that's the entire take ruined and you have to go again without any guarantees it will be better.

That short is so good.  Great acting. 

I don't see any hard focus pulls.  AF tracking would have helped in some of the outdoor walking scenes but they seem to keep the distance between camera and talent consistent.

It looks like they shot for manual focus and not a lot of camera moves.  I wouldn't change a thing. 

AF tracking is solid and not unpredictable from Sony, Canon and Nikon.  

I know I can out perform a single camera operator with manual focus rig / steady cam vs my gimbal and FF AF tracking set up. 

Full Frame option with options.

Black Magic has sorta has a not so future proof business model right now. 

The P4K and P6K can be bought at a great price.  So much so that they probably undercut their cine line up block cameras. 

So what can BM do moving forward?  They're cameras are priced at the lower end.  They can't come out with a FF camera that checks all the spec boxes and keep up with the C500 or even the R5.

If they jump the shark with FF and release a SPECS camera they devalue the rest of their products. 

This guy is a joke. 

If anyone wonders why Nikon Z system didn't catch on for video you can blame people like Wolfjoke. 

This gets called out for being wrong in his reviews but never does anything but try and create more clickbait. 

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kidzrevil1 month ago

"After watching this video again, realistically no one will ever expose their footage like you’ve done in this test. Even with a 12 bit Canon Cinema camera a DP would never underexpose their footage like this. I guarantee you if ran this test with a 10 bit GH5 it would fall apart too especially since internal compression will start “throwing out” underexposed data. You should do this test over and expose the image in a realistic way in a real world setting. My z6 footage looks nothing like this."

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Ken Jones1 year ago

Nikon Z6 records GOOD VIDEO. I don't have the 8bit banding issue you presented. I took our Z6 and did a super quick test of a twilight sky. 1/60, f/8, ISO 640, 126.5 Mbit/s, Flat Profile. The video looked good! My Z6 does 8-bit video onto the XQD card just fine.

 

6 hours ago, Danyyyel said:

What I am really sad is that people on site like here (because believe me a lot of people are using the Z for video in Nikon groups etc) don't  give a serious look at what Nikon is doing. As a d810, d750 to the D70 15 years ago user, the most enjoyable camera I have used are my 2 z6. As a hybrid shooter I can just flick a button and switch from video or photo mode.

Now for me the z6 could have been a little bigger, double card slot and 4k 60p and 10 bit and log internal. The double card slot and 4k 60p seems to be coming in a next update about September, october. I would really really like a 10 bit and internal log, it would be a dream come true, but at least if it is not possible with current tech (look at overheating in R5 R6) you have the possibility to use the Ninja V. I mean if a z6 with a Ninja V is too big for anyone, I am out of breath. I mean it is smaller than using an entry level camera like the Nikon D3500 and a flash. And if you do any video seriouly that need 10 bit and Log you will have to carry tripods or Ronin etc.

Now the good part, the z6 is the best experience shooting I have. I mean with the fantastic viewfinder, excellent IBIS, touch screen and best of all autofocus, I can shoot handheld like doing photos. For reportage style that I do for a well known worldwide broadcaster, it is a game changer. Doing B-rolls don't need to put on a tripod anymore. Except for very smooth pan or walking shot that I will use tripod, stabilizer or interview setup and higher end job. The auto-focus is super good and getting better with every extra firmware update. Last year when it was about buying a BM camera to compliment the z6 (60fps 4k and eventually raw) the auto-focus killed that though. This combined with slowmo 120fps at 1080p gives such good quality. That 120 fps is underrated, even if it 1080p it is still gorgeous. I would hope even a 4k 120 fps or even a crop or a 2,7k version, just to intercut it a bit closer to the 4k.

Now it terms of usability, you have 3 U setting button that I configured to 24, 60 and 120 fps with all corresponding shutter speed. I would have liked for them to have included banks that I could choose because I live in a Pal country but shoot for an American one and also for creative job shoot at 24 fps. There are two user configurable button in the front and have configured on to swith from FX to DX mode and the other for changing focus mode. You also have a very nice rear touch LCD with rapid menu that you can also configure to your need. In the end the z6 is the most versatile and ergonomic camera I have ever use. I can change aperture, shutter speed and ISO just with my thumb and upper finger.

Now there are things I have been experimenting lately with the the app, where I can sync timecode using the automatic time which uses gps etc, and rack focusing with it.

 

 

The z6 is a great camera for video and stills.  It blows away the A7III and is better than the EOS R.    The reason people on the EOS don't give it a serious look baffles me also.  

The media / press jumped on the Z6 for a number of unwarranted things that just aren't true.  Nikon is not very good at getting the word out and having professionals use the Z6 like they should have. 

I believe Jared Polin has clients in the real world.   #1

No one is getting a Canon R5 unless it's a upfront paid for review.   Restricted recording times is as transparent as you can get.   The way it's portrayed across the web speaks for itself.  

Here's the truth about the R5 / R6:

If these cameras act like little babies that heat up and turn off after 15 minutes in Florida heat then this launch will be a big fail. 

My gut feeling is haters will do reviews and go out of their way to prove over heating is a bigger issue than it is.  So it will be divided between haters and fanboys.  For the price of a few of the latest Sony cameras you can have the R5 ?  That's crazy.  And for $2,495 you get 10 bit 60p4k.

Here's R6 info:

"Moreover, oversampled UHD 4K 4:2:2 10-bit video signal at up to 60fps can be output from the HDMI port with a choice of either Picture Style, Canon Log or HDR PQ format, the output can be recorded to another device externally, or the footage can be viewed on an HDR PQ compatible TV."

My bet is Canon has a "builtin fan" R5s in the works to save face.

2 hours ago, crevice said:

Some great looking footage here. Not going to lie, this looks just as good as my Canon C200 videos. Colors looks amazing, dynamic range looks better than I thought it would, and its all shot handheld:

 

 

Oh, shut up and take my money.  Looks like RED footage.

3 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

It’s crazy. Profiting off giving choice to users who really want it. Crazy idea.

 

Canon is really controlling the narrative around this launch. They give the camera to reviewers and then they tell them you can’t talk about RS or anything like they until they release the camera! Meanwhile people preordering with a sense of naivety around it all. 

2 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Do you not see the difference yet in thermal problems vs easy to workaround well documented and well known limitations?

The limitations of broken unusable AF tracking on the S1 and S1H makes both cameras unusable. 

For me I have never recorded 30 minutes straight.   So the R6 might work perfectly for me. Or if I need 120p 4K then the R5 might be best. 

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Who has lowered the expectations bar so low that you will accept the fact that your hybrid camera can't even shoot a 30 min event or interview, we are not talking hours like you are trying to imply;

I'm not trying to imply anything but let's wait and see how the R5, R6 shake out.  

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The S1H can, the S1 can, the GH5 can, even the EOS R can, and I'm sure the Sony's can...why does Canon's latest hybrid flagships get a pass?

Again, we need to see how these Canon cameras work in the real work and what options you have to bump down to a lower mbps 4K image and how this affects record time or "THERMAL LIMITATIONS"

Since when is THERMAL tossed around in gear talk?

And if the GH5 checks the boxes with the quality of work you produced then why are you looking at the Canon R5? Why?  It's great to look but you've gone on and on to prove your point is valid.  Everyone's point is valid in this case.  In my words it sucks that Canon didn't figure out a better engineered solution for thermal problems. 

The solution that Canon might arrive at is to add unlimited recording setting that locks any option that causes recording limits to take affect.  Canon's video files have always been bloated so this option could be valid. 

Get a little creative and you'll see the R5 has some impressive specs that should make anyone pay attention.

29 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

So what happens when your camera overheats and shutdowns and won’t let you record? No image is the worst image.

I’m not a professional. But if I was taking money to do a job I wouldn’t feel comfortable using the R5 or R6 based on what I know at this time. It would require you to know exactly the cameras limits from extensive experience using it, especially since temperature records times are documented as being variable in the manual!

As it stands the R5 is a great camera for me because Im doing stuff for my own business that someone else isn’t paying me to do. It’s all on me and I suffer the consequences of my gear shitting the bed when I need it.

I’m also saying give the R5/R6 a chance! Doesn’t mean I don’t think the temperature and record limits are huge show stoppers for a lot of use cases out there, including YouTube and vlogging.

What happens when you try and use AF tracking on the GH5, S1 and S1H and it fails because it doesn't work correctly as advertised?

The R5 and R6 actually state recording times.

As a professional on the last 20 gigs I myself as the DP, the DP hired and anyone else rolling cameras never filmed over 2-3 minutes at a time.   This includes drone footage that has battery limitations and other issues to work around.

I've said the R5, R6 probably aren't for gigs that require longer record times such as interviews. 

If you get a gig that reguires hours of non-stop recording then of course you pick the right gear for the job.  If you need AF tracking you also pick the right gear.

13 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

 I still see great stuff shot by decent video guys who use it.  Their work speaks for themselves and the quality of the camera.  I'll put my faith there than some random, anonymous guy on a forum. 

I saw some GH5 footage edit the other day that was amazing.  The work captured and produced was really great work.

39 minutes ago, ade towell said:

Apologies if this comes across a bit harsh Mr Super 8 but your ridiculous obsession with the gh5 and blaiming of BM cameras on other threads due to your own lack of knowledge, do you no favours I'm afraid. 

I don't think I've acome across anyone who consistently talks as much nonsense as you. Other than maybe your lovely President. 

Still can't tell if its intentional trolling or you actually believe what you are saying. Kind of hope it's the former for your own sake

My knowledge of the P6K came from the EOS, the hype, reviews, watching P6K video and talking with the crew I hired.  That is 100% fact.  As i stated, I shot with a different rig and my footage was good and was used. No it wasn't a BM camera.  If I hire someone on my gig then it's simple, produce the work you were hired to do.  We work as a team.

The OP mentioned the Gh5 so it's relevant to this thread.

My take is my opinion only.  No big deal if you disagree.

Now I could post for or against the R5 and R6 and I would still have people that disagree with me.  I'm not the only one saying give it a chance or that you can work around it's limitations.   

31 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

 

Perhaps its not a stretch to see that the R5 and especially the R6 are suckers cameras too?

Sounds like the R5 and R6. At least the GH5 was released in 2017.

 

Can’t wait to see some of your work with these phone cameras. Please post it in the footage section please!

 

LOL. Okay. How come Super8 went from -50 points back to 0? Has to be the most downvoted member here.  It’s because of comments like these.

The R5 and R6 deliver the specs they claim on paper. 

Let's not forget IMAGE QUALITY trumps SPECS that you never use. 

We need to wait and see how the R5 and R6 stack up against the latest cameras in it's class.  

You could be right.  The Gh5 image quality might be as good as we can get.  I've seen better with the S1, Z6, P4K, P6K and Sigma.  Let see if the R5 and R6 are even usable before we champion that they are not.

Just now, Dimitris Stasinos said:

This doesn't make any sense at all. Crippled specs? That thing has every feasible recording option in conjunction with the tech it carries and is a proven workhorse camera. Canon should do their homework on what Panasonic achieved 4 years ago and deliver a better product.

Because at the end of the day image quality matters. 

Crippled specs is the same as paper specs.  A camera that's good on paper but the image quality doesn't match.

It's clear that lots of cameras passed the GH5 in color and image quality years ago.  The Gh5 is a suckers camera in 2020.  You see people on Facebook boards jumping into buy a $1,697 GH5 from Adorm$$ because the specs checks all the boxes.

Smartphones shoot 4k and even 8K.   Go use those because I'm sure RAW will be next.

1 hour ago, SteveV4D said:

Just need a hybrid camera with great colour, AF and IBIS that doesn't cripple framerates upto 60p DCI 4k with either a crop or a time limit. 

So you do have good eyes and standards.  That's good.

1 hour ago, SteveV4D said:

Thats the funniest and probably silliest statement I've ever read on this forum.  😂😂  So glad you've discovered your sense of humour.  😉  

Well thank you very much.

You get my point and so does everyone else.

Not with every camera but with the GH5, you only have so long before you can keep calling out it's specs before you have to look at the image it gives you.  In camera years the Gh5 is OLD and has an old looking image.

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The GH5 is far from perfect; highlight rolloff is atrocious in WDR scenarios, the color science is a pain to grade in post, and of course my number one problem is the fact I need to use MF at all times when shooting with it which means I'm throwing away an unacceptable amount of footage and working overtime to keep the talent in focus during complex gimbal movements.

And you know i didn't write the quote above.  

Yes the GH5 was the first hybrid with this that and the other.  If it's so good and the image is so good then we all are wasting time looking at Canon, Sony and BMP cameras.