Ed_David

From my anonymous tipster:

"The date is interesting. It seems this was lodged as a testimony because the original patent wasn’t accepted."

Using Peter Jackson and Steven Soderbergh to testify for the patent amendment. 

WHAT IS THE HOOEY IS GOING ON?

 

1 minute ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yes, we will have to speak about the facts ourselves and do it in a way that is respectful and can withstand scrutiny in court.

Freedom of speech is protected in the USA and in my country as well, the UK. Other blogs are very timid, most I'd even say were spineless. We can't rely on any of them.

Don't bother trying Cinema5D and good luck, go straight to the big US and British newspapers, tell them the facts and see what happens.

Trying, just need contacts not their REPORT A TIP thingy

from personal view post that my anonymous source alerted me to APPLE VS RED :

http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/22255/red-surpassed-beats-by-dr-dre-margins-record-selling-you-just-consumer-ssd-/p2

 

"One of RED ex workers with lot of contacts inside sent me small note.

It is panic inside RED now.
They are extremely afraid considering any REDCODE detailed explanation and camera hardware analysis now.
As RED camera detailed dissection by pro engineers can unveil similar margins.
Firm is in very unstable state, as any weakness will be used by lot of companies to fight back in the raw video patents fight. And this can kill RED. As company won't be able to make enough new gear without this patents."

 

ALSO CAN SOMEONE research all lawsuits against red or red against others?  WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON?  THIS IS BONKERS.  Are we witnessing the collaspe of a billionare's company due to a person in the UK who makes youtube videos with silly mario bros coin sounds?   . TRUTH IS STRANGER THAN FICTION

5 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Indeed!

  I haven't researched this yet.  THIS IS JUST SOMETHING I JUST HEARD via anonymous source.  I just heard that Peter Jackson and Steven Soderbergh testified in the appeal process.   Seems that Peter Jackson was able to help get the patent thru.

1 hour ago, ntblowz said:

Hmm how come we didnt hear any news about apple vs red?

NO IDEA.  In my short emailing to other camera blogs, seems that everyone is scared sh*tless of red suing them for defamation.  So everyone is quiet as hell.  Same with my anonymous source who may or may not be under NDA.

another angle - THIS IS JUST MY RESEARCH and I don't know if true,

but probably the russian angle - don't know much about this - but interesting about this camera:

 

From https://cinematography.com/index.php?/topic/33792-kinor-digital-4k/

 

 

"KINOR digital cinema camera:

Yes, It's real.

The guys from russian forum discuss with chief designer ( Alexander Kitaev) of Kinor and we have many interested information.

http://www.kinor.ru/en/products/camera/dc4k/

NCH CMOS Sensor

Resolution

Max 4600x3400

DC 4040x2300

Speed

0,01-200 FPS /DC mode full frame

DUAL 3G HDSDI output

Direct 4K RAW/RGB uncompressed recording on Kinor Flash DCR Recorder

High resolution DLP LED viewfinder

Optional High Speed onboard recorder up to 1,2 TB

Full HD High speed option with 2/3 inch lenses 600fps

(for broadcast market

100-600 ISO

12 Tstop in RGB mode

PL mount & SLR lenses (Canon, Nikon, Pentax Adapter available)

Strong Alloy CNC mill case

power 12V 20W (without recorder)

2,3KG weight without Lens

 

As for me, Kinor have very good system of recording informatino from sensor at RAW format without compressing.

The warkflow can be two versions, the first version - HD 1080/25/i with outoput color YUV with pre-color correction,

the second -RAW output, Y channel at HDSDI. The recording on computer by Decklink AVI, AVI RAW .

http://cinemac.ru/forum/index.php?showtopic=1484

The camera can have different configuration from simply version up to super Hi Power.

The sensor Dc2K 2380х1720 , HD 1920х1080 and 2K 2048х1152, size 22мм,

DC4K camera have sensor with resolution 4820х3400 size 25,4 мм.

The price of basic configuration of DC2K 9900 Euros, DC4K 17000 euros.

Alexander told about super high speed versions with speed 700fps.

If you will have questions, can ask of Alexander directly."

 

5 hours ago, Gavin Greenwalt said:

As someone who was once threatened to be "sued into oblivion" for legally reverse engineering Redcode and publishing the details of the tech I have no love for Jannnard's legal team either.  But this seems like bullshit and Jinni Tech woefully ignorant.

The patent is on redcode and I clearly remember redcode not being announced initially. There were questions of how good of image you would get if you couldn't afford the fiber optic module and huge raid. Then at NAB and in Gibby's interview they added the secret sauce. At that point they said they were giving Graeme free reign to use whatever tech he thought would be best with zero legacy consideration so they also didn't prescribe a solution to him.

Red has an overly broad patent on something that is IMO very obvious "hey what if the computer you record jpeg2000 to was the camera itself and not tethered!" no duh. But it appears to cross its i's and dot its t's. 

BREAKING:  Apple has sued Red over their patents on red code and their 4k raw camera

Here's info I have learned so far via anonymous source via personal view:  http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/22255/red-surpassed-beats-by-dr-dre-margins-record-selling-you-just-consumer-ssd-/p2?post#Form_Body

From apple vs red lawsuit

 

https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/PTAB/IPR2019-01065/Inter_Partes_Review_of_U.S._Pat._9245314/docs/05-06-2019-Petitioner/Exhibit-1003-3-Ex1003___Expert_Declaration_Redcom_314.pdf

https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/PTAB/IPR2019-01065/Inter_Partes_Review_of_U.S._Pat._9245314/05-06-2019-Petitioner/Petition-2-Petition_for_IPR_of_US_Patent_No_9245314/

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/52mk7rbgykdyk8v/AAB096zoYR9MoGSxVnUT4HgDa?dl=0

 

LEGAL DISCLAIMER:

THIS IS JUST MY OPINION FROM WHAT MY RESEARCH IS - THESE are just my opinions and my research into the legal documents I have read above. 

 

 

 Apple’s claim:  Patents invalid because tech came from Mølgaard and Presler- video image processing can be applied to Presler’s video camera

Presler from Silicon Imaging cmos camera and redcode seems to possibly be modified from some existing tech already by Molgaard

 

 

Key figures in Apple vs Red lawsuit:

Ari Presler - Chief Tech Officer at Silicon Imaging

Claus Mølgaard, Vice President of Research and Development - Phase One now at Apple

 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ari-presler-a250ba4/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/molgaardclaus/

Seems red buys tech, patents as their own, then sues people for using it.

6 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

I feel the patent issue is probably dead in the water based on how the patent office works.

The “Made in USA” claims however...that’s looking like deception and possible fraud, at least for that LCD screen.

What is their possible justification for being “made in the usa” or even “assembled in the USA”.

If they did this with the LCD screen what other components did they do it with, if any?

And why would they sue Andrew for talking smack about their product instead of rising to the occasion? Kinda shows a company culture of “bully litigation”.

i suspect a lot of this is driven by the personality of REDs CEO.

And this is my favorite - the red one - their first camera was "made in Singapore, assembled in Irvine, CA."  The red DSMC2 cameras are "made in USA"

 

When asked about this on reduser, a few users who seem to not work for red but seem to really know a lot about RED's internal offerings claimed everything was made now in Irvine, CA. When I asked to see manufacturing of most components, they wouldn't quite answer beyond a BTS video that shows red and their assembly area.  No microchip or sensor creation.

 

Not one news story to celebrate this - that an american camera company is making their sensors and microchips in the USA!!

Can you imagine the news story!!!  Apple made the mac trash can in the USA and man, that was a giant news story.

HMMMMMMMMMMMM

Thanks for doing this Andrew.  I'm trying to get an interview with Bruce from Jinnimag and try to get up enough evidence to show Wired and the NYTimes, New Yorker, and Engadget and Variety and Hollywood reporter to cover this story.  Also maybe sharing this news with Sony and Canon, maybe they have industry connections they can use.  I spoke to a journalist at Ars Technica, and he said they don't have the resources to verify the claims in the Jinnimag video - they need a red minimag and a red touch lcd, but maybe they have legal experts they can talk to - or if someone has a patent lawyer we can consult with.

Let me know who wants to help start getting this going.

Andrew, also you should consult with a lawyer about their NDA against you.  I'm sure someone can offer you pro-bono legal advice.  It seems a little fishy.

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

They're not the past!

This is the slow death of mirrorless cameras, just as the smartphone killed a huge share of the point and shoot camera market.

Once this gets improved, for non professionals it will be good enough and definitely for stills shooting. 

On 8/5/2019 at 6:54 PM, Kisaha said:

I wouldn't worry that much, I am not a mass customer/consumer, and I believe their phones are perfect for what they do and what they need.

When I was shooting SLR - they were shooting some plastic Kodak. When I  was shooting a dSLR - they were shooting some Canon compact, suddenly, for 4-5-6 years EVERYONE was buying dSLRs! That was the abnormality, right now I find it perfecty normal. The market self regulated, with a hint of the future.

I do not think that the masses worry much about Canon or Nikon, and recently we had a resurrection of film and vinyls. I still buy both. Fuji makes very good money with their film business, especially for a "dead medium".

I do not really worry for Canon, and I do not care. Still have lenses, FD and EF, but haven't buy a Canon body for a decade.

Everyting is getting cheaper, with more features; except maybe Porsche's, they will never be cheap!

 

At the end of the day, in terms of image improvements, we have seen CCD vs CMOS chips, and the supporting microchips and image processing that goes with it that has given us a blackmagic pocket 4k and the soon to come out, zcam 2 full frame camera that can do raw 4k - which is quite amazing.  We've seen low light kings with canon and sony as well.  And we have seen skintone kings with blackmagic and Arri.

So we kind of have reached the peak of what it is possible, for now, in terms of low-light, size, and capability.

What remains, of course, is a beautiful image.  A beautiful colorful rich image..  Well for people like me that still think there is magic shooting on celluloid.  How celluloid  reacts to light  and overexposure, and motion, and tungsten lighting, and all color.  For me I don't think one camera does that yet.  And I would love to see camera makers continue to move this way forward.

There's still room to be done, and there's still hope for a way to capture data that's better than CMOS.

But for now, I don't really see many cameras making that much progress now.  I don't believe in the 4k vs 8k resolution wars. I'm pretty happy with what we have for video

But for still photography, I really don't see too much more progress that can happen to be justified to the average semi-pro and consumer photographer that makes it worth it, as an investment in glass, and having to carry a camera around, vs just using an iphone.  Especially to those to upgrade their existing cameras as Kisha said.

Is the next nikon z7 or z6 going to be that much better than the z6 for stills?  Sure the dream is the ultimate hybrid stills/video camera - and maybe someone will get there so it does 4k raw and pro res and also beautiful raw still images - but yea, where was I going?  I don't remember.  This post of mine was pointless.

Mattius wins again!  I need to allow people to win arguments and move on with my life.  there is more to life than arguing or debating on a message board.    LEICA RULES! CANON DROOLS!

13 minutes ago, PolarStarArts said:

I estimate that the day you are forecasting is about 10 years off.

Here's why.

There is still a large cohort of people aged 45 - 70 that didn't grow up with smart phones or social media. They know traditional cameras and are still interested in them. That cohort will age 10 years over the next decade of course, with the result that today's 45 year-old will be 55, the 55 year-old will be 65 and so on. Barring disability or severe illness, they'll still be active photographers. The 70+ part of the cohort will start to drop out of the photographic markets of course, as they die off or become too old to continue their hobby.

As the global population is aging and there are more older people than younger now, sales of traditional cameras will still be relatively steady, although there may be some retrenchment in the camera manufacturing industry and makers may have to simplify their lines down to just three or four models at most to cope with declining camera sales. Eventually a plateau will be found, even if it's lower than it used to be.

Smart phones are making incredible bounds in terms of their photographic capabilities, but...

• There are no smartphones currently on the market that have credible telephoto zooms that can offer lossless image quality.
• Add-on lenses are somewhat variable in terms of quality and smart phones were never designed to accept them. Some makers, like Hasselblad, did bring out cases with a built in camera and the phone itself would simply act as a control interface and means of storing the images taken, but this idea never took off and it only fits Motorola Moto Z phones from 2016.
• Computational photography is still in its infancy.
• There are currently no smartphones that can offer variable apertures down to f22.
• Battery life is still an issue with many smart phones, necessitating add-on battery cases that increase the weight and bulk of a smart phone. Then you have the problem of what to do if you're using add-on lenses that can only be attached to the camera using a special case or a clip.
• Smart phones have yet to be optimized for photography. To see what I mean, consider that when taking a picture with a smart phone, you first have to wake up the phone, then tap the camera icon and then shoot. With most dedicated still cameras you just have to turn the camera on, and as the boot-up phase is very quick or almost instantaneous, you're ready to shoot in no time. I'll concede that I'm splitting hairs here.
• Even with computational photography, there are limits to how much quality and capability you can get out of the 1/2" image sensors most phones have. These limits are dictated by physics.

The reason why point-and-shoot cameras as well as low-end bridge cameras have declined so rapidly is that the smart phone is the modern-day equivalent of a Brownie camera. A smart phone is relatively convenient to use and produces images that are 'good enough'. As for low-end DSLRs, these are dropping in popularity because people are finding they can get a better DSLR or mirrorless camera with more features and capability for not a lot more money. Or, they're willing to make the stretch for a better camera and are willing to use a credit card to get the leverage to buy one.

Another reason why camera sales have declined overall is that we are currently in a state of flux. That is, we're going through a transition in camera technology -  moving from traditional DSLRs to mirrorless. People are interested in and clamouring for mirrorless cameras, but the manufacturers are still coming to grips with how to make good mirrorless cameras. As a result, people are hanging on to the cameras they have and are waiting for the manufacturers to get up to speed in their mirrorless offerings.

 

portrait mode gets rid of the need for most people to have telephoto glass.  they do have different aputure settings in the pro app programs.  smartphones have a one button click to go into photo mode.  it's really not any slower, for most people.

and I've been fooled by the iphone portrait mode so many times now on instagram.  And I work in this business  .  Cinema and semi pro photography will continue, but will be more and more niche.  just as film still hangs on.

16 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

So far I haven't found any reports confirming your theory. In fact the opposite. Leica wasn't even hit very hard during the 2008 crisis.

And none of the Leica shooters I know is "rich" in the sense I suspect you where going for.

You are right.  I am theorizing about leica.  If Mattias you are able to make a prediction, do you think the new-gen leica will offer something more to casual rich people that gets them to want to chuck out their current phone, now that the iphone portrait mode is getting to be "good enough" for most people, and it's one less thing to bring around?

Also aren't you a big Leica enthusiast?  I have no skin in the game.  But I do wish Leica survives, as I do with canon.  I think their glass is really amazing.  I haven't ever used one of their cameras, but I am sure they are quite amazing as well.

 

19 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Leica is still selling them faster than they can make them. Luxury is still selling well. The Swiss luxury watch industry just had their best year ever. 

the rich are getting richer for sure.  And watches is a status symbol for many rich people.  High end cameras are not.  I think the iphone x is a status symbol moreso.  Shooting with a camera is dorky, and will always be dorky.  Never sexy.  Unless it's a film camera then rich hipsters drool over that.  But I don't think rich kids notice whether another kid is shooting with a leica or a sony.  And without the #leica hashtag on a instagram post, no one is probably going to notice the difference between that and most other high end cameras like sony, nikon, canon, and iphone portrait mode.

2 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Leica is still selling them faster than they can make them. Luxury is still selling well. The Swiss luxury watch industry just had their best year ever. 

well with iphone sales slowing, and slow adoption of the more expensive brand items and a global recession/depression on the horizon, especially with the us/china trade war, brexit, and the collapse of the environment, and Moore's law, Leica sales may also be tapering off a bit, especially if rich little johnny finds his current leica is just fine and doesn't need to upgrade, especially when the end product is instagram.

I know andrew isn't a fan of canon's lack of innovation, but they did do dual pixel AF in the c300 which started the amazing autofocus for video game and their lens ISS technology is pretty unbelievable in that 70-200 II and III lens and they do value good skintones, so I hope they don't leave the camera game. 

So let's not dance on their grave  . And full disclaimer, I now own a c300 ii and a c700, nikon d600 (selling) also a sony a7 iii and blackmagic pocket (selling) and aaton xtr plus.

 

I'm not expert at any of this, but would assume all semi-professional camera makers are taking a hit.  What is the performance with Sony, Leica, Panasonic, etc etc in their camera divisions?

As the iphone portrait mode gets better and better, this is most likely taking away people from canon rebels and the likes.

Next 10 years, god knows what happens with the dslr/mirrorless world.  That iphone portrait mode is probably good enough for 85% of people I would imagine, especially when the end result of photos these days aren't to be blown up.  Not even onto computer, but a 2 in instagram picture on a 720p cell phone that's no larger than 6 inches long.

and full disclosure, even I have been fooled by the iphone portrait mode.  

3 hours ago, Mokara said:

The basic problem is that people are sueing or threatening to sue because they are ignorant about the technology involved and the terms used.

 

I don't know if I agree.  There was a succesful class action lawsuit against Western Digital in 2006 because of mislabeling drives as their total value, not as their usable disk space value.

Seems that there would need to be a disclaimer on the cards about this to prevent them from the same thing happening.

A lawsuit about this disk space issue was filed in 2003:

https://www.wired.com/2003/09/hard-drive-size-does-matter/

 

and western digital settled over this matter in 2006:

https://www.geek.com/news/western-digital-settles-over-size-562705/

A lawsuit about this disk space issue was filed in 2003:

https://www.wired.com/2003/09/hard-drive-size-does-matter/

 

and western digital settled over this matter in 2006:

https://www.geek.com/news/western-digital-settles-over-size-562705/

2 hours ago, dhessel said:

I am no expert and have just been researching this a little and it appears that the 480 gb drives do have 512 gb of storage. It appears that what happened was SSD drives were originally labeled with there full capacity of 512 gb but only 480 gb was actually usable for storage due to over provisioning of the drive. At some point SSD's and RED switched from labelling the drives with the useable data rather than the full capacity which is were this whole mess comes from. This has been explained in the numerous threads out there and if true would make your class action lawsuit unlikely to succeed since RED mags labeled 512 gb with an 480 gb SSD inside do have 512 gb of memory inside.

 

3 hours ago, JurijTurnsek said:

 

 

 

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

I saw your post on the RED facebook group, I unfortunately give you a 50/50 chance of getting booted out! ?

I've been banned from RED facebook groups for lesser "crimes"....

But I wish you the best of luck!

I posted it to a bunch of places.  If they ban me, that is totally ok!

Looking for red mini mag 512 gb customers to start a dance company/support group.

We need to join hands and sing out our troubles.

A class action lawsuit is an easy win. Nvidia i just read had to pay up when their 4gb ram video cards turned out to only be 3.5gb. Someone get a lawyer in california asap. 

11 hours ago, alanpoiuyt said:

Thanks - SLR Magic 8mm, Voigtlander 25mm f0.95, Sigma 18-35, Tamron FE 24-70 no speedbooster yet.

from my quick usage of BRAW - I also didn't notice banding on 12:1 footage on ursa mini pro G1

the varicam lt is not as good in low light, and doesn't do full frame nor has, in my opinion, skintones as close to alexa as the c700.  but yea I got my used.  varicam is a lot cheaper - but that's the price I got the c700 for used

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I would do, but it's probably going to die at some point  It's also a heavy beast, so my back might die even sooner that it does.

I wish we had got a smaller Alexa, in days gone by - for around £25,000 which could now be picked up for £5000.

I suppose we'll have to wait a big longer for the Alexa Mini to come down in price!!

I wonder how much it would be to insure an Alexa and how much it could be rented out for? That would be one way to make the £5k back.

Talking of depreciation... I just bought a 1DS Mark III with 28-70mm F2.8 for 900 euros all-in... That combo was over 10 grand in 2008.

in the states, you can rent it for around $300 a day on sharegrid and kitsplit - but I don't know the demand for it, but I think it's probably fairly good, especially wtih an odyssey for arriraw.

But as a former owner of a sony f65 - having a big giant heavy power-hungry camera with a slow boot up time definitely limits creative choices that you can get with a smaller camera.  You can't fly on a gimbal or steadicam as easily you can put it in a car or other tight spaces, you can handhold for as long.

But still, yea that alexa has some great skintones, and so easily.

still though, an ursa mini pro with a custom olpf filter or  red scarlet maybe more useful at that price range

On 4/14/2019 at 5:24 AM, Django said:

Reviving this topic as I'm currently hesitating in between both cams as much needed upgrade to my C100. There is a new C300mkII kit that replaces the cumbersome monitor+XLR clamshell design with the C200's touchscreen, separate XLR module + a shogun inferno (allowing ProRes Raw) for $10K.  :

 https://www.newsshooter.com/2019/01/07/canon-c300-mark-ii-now-available-with-the-c200-touch-screen/

This really makes the C300mkII design more appealing imo.

Doing a lot of green screen work with fast turnovers and the manageable 10-bit 422 internal 4K (and 12-bit 444 2K !) will be welcome over the limited C200 internal choices. 

Thoughts?

I have the new lcd. Makes the c300 ii so so so much more ergonomical .

I shot some tests c300 ii and c200. Email me at ed.david@gmail.com and i can get you the raw dpx files

10 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

did you get the source files? Or regraded the web version, as there is a lot of noise and macro blocking going on. 

just the youtube web version - yea it's still really bad, but if you look at what's on youtube, I'm just trying to help them - help the little guy

3 hours ago, photographer-at-large said:

Aputure's Ted says their new 300D II is approximately equivalent in output to 575W HMI at 2:20 mark of this video:

 

HIVE LEDs have same diameter chassis as Profoto.

the 200c is $2290.00, so maybe like $3k or so.  but its rgb vs just daylight.  aputure 300d ii is gunning for the joker 800 and arri 1.2k

also with the 2x fresnel, probably same output as a joker 800 if his photometrics are right!

if 25% brighter than 300d mark i with fresnel lens 2x its 97500 lux a t 1m, and joker 800 with frosted fresnel is 46403.22, with wide angle it is 216591.405.  so not as bright as with wide angle, but brighter than joker with frosted fresnel - more like a joker 1600 with a frosted fresnel!