New L-Mount Lumix (cinema?) Camera

[eatstoomuchjam]

27 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

I just wrote an entire Black Mirror episode based on camera marketing and it actually came out quite well as a piece of dystopian satire.

If anyone has any good ideas for it DM me.

Are you actually gonna produce it?  I'm ready to watch.

Just keep in mind that outside of a fairly small community of camera nerds, nobody will really "get" it.  If it were me, I'd try to make it more universal - could be a fashion influencer or similar.  I'm sure that this pattern of stuff is really common among other influencer communities too - I'd think of like the Ezarik sisters who both do a bunch of lifestyle influencer marketing. They never met a robot vacuum, electric car, or new Apple release that they didn't love and showcase in a very postiive, nicely-lit, non-threatening way.

[newfoundmass]

The only thing that makes this camera not of interest to me is the price tag. It actually seems like a quality release, but that's just not a competitive price for me at least.

My first thought would be to upgrade from the S5II X to the S1II, and then upgrading my two S5s to S5IIs. But It'd make more sense to keep the S5II X and then upgrade the two S5s to the S5II for less than what a S1II would cost me.

Still, it's a decent camera. I hope it does well.

[berkenboom]

5 hours ago, Al Dolega said:

While I agree with most of the criticisms of Panasonic's marketing, as far as pricing goes I feel they may be getting treated a bit harshly. The S1 launched at $2500 in 2019; with inflation that's about $3150 in today's money. So not really much of a price increase, although of course overall wages have not kept up with inflation, rates on video jobs are always being squeezed, etc.

You can compare launch prices, but thats not really relevant. What matters is what you can currently can get. And currently the S5II is 1600 new, 1350 used. Nikon Z6 III is 2200 new, the A7 IV is 2.349 new, 1950 used.The R6 II is 2400 new,2000 used.

I dont know all the differences between these camera's, but i think they are solid camera's. Nothing that the S1II offers makes be go "mmm those features are worth the €1000 price premium"

[Al Dolega]

19 minutes ago, berkenboom said:

You can compare launch prices, but thats not really relevant. What matters is what you can currently can get.

It's relevant to the pricing strategy Panasonic is using, which is what Andrew and others are critiquing and I was responding to.

Of course from an end-user POV you would want to compare against relevant used or discounted-new offerings. I waited almost two years for the first S1 to depreciate enough that I could afford it- got a minty one with the 24-105 for $2200.

[berkenboom]

3 hours ago, Al Dolega said:

It's relevant to the pricing strategy Panasonic is using, which is what Andrew and others are critiquing and I was responding to.

Of course from an end-user POV you would want to compare against relevant used or discounted-new offerings. I waited almost two years for the first S1 to depreciate enough that I could afford it- got a minty one with the 24-105 for $2200.

I got lucky and got my s1 + vlog upgrade for 1500 one year after introduction. Depreciation is nice for new entry into the system. But for owner selling their gear its not great i also think its a bad omen that stuff depreciates so fast.

On the other hand, old MFT stuff on the second hand market is wild now. I saw an GF3, for 300 including lens.
300 was the price I paid at that time for a new one, lens included! even wilder a GF1 for 350😆

its like the dutch proberb "wat de gek ervoor geeft"  (what a fool will pay for [it])

[eatstoomuchjam]

46 minutes ago, berkenboom said:

On the other hand, old MFT stuff on the second hand market is wild now. I saw an GF3, for 300 including lens.
300 was the price I paid at that time for a new one, lens included! even wilder a GF1 for 350😆

I've been seeing on YouTube that some of the influencers have been going on about how great the old/small Panasonics were.  If you want to see something really bonkers, look at current GM1 pricing - a lot of them going for about $500 in a kit with the 12-32.

Since those went so crazy, now I'm seeing some from adjacent influencers saying "Hey, everybody!  The GF* series is also really great and small and btw, some shoot 4K" so I'm not surprised they're going up now too.

[Andrew Reid]

Check out the GX9 prices

[KnightsFan]

6 hours ago, berkenboom said:

You can compare launch prices, but thats not really relevant. What matters is what you can currently can get. And currently the S5II is 1600 new, 1350 used. Nikon Z6 III is 2200 new, the A7 IV is 2.349 new, 1950 used.The R6 II is 2400 new,2000 used.

I dont know all the differences between these camera's, but i think they are solid camera's. Nothing that the S1II offers makes be go "mmm those features are worth the €1000 price premium"

As someone who exclusively buys used, I agree with you-- however, features in new products are almost never objectively worth the premium, in any product category. Cameras, cars, graphics cards, clothes, music albums, and even digital video games on steam, if enjoyment is the value metric.

[ita149]

18 hours ago, Jahleh said:

Thank you for the info! It seems Prores Raw is whopping 4200Mbps so it’s about 2.69x more than 6k50p N-Raw Normal on Z6iii. No thanks, my SSD’s can’t take it and Final Cut is not good as Resolve for me. 

It seems Cined tested those for S1II: ”with DR Boost OFF in 4K ProRes RAW 25p, we get 11.5 stops at a signal-to-noise ratio of 2 (SNR), and 12.8 stops at SNR = 1. With DR Boost ON, we now get a superb 13.1 stops at SNR = 2 and 14.3 stops at SNR = 1”

For the Z6iii 6k24p NRaw on 6k timeline Gerald got 9.89 stops and on 4k timeline 10.6 stops and with some NR 12.5 stops at SNR = 2. 

It looks pretty good because unfortunately CineD has not tested the 5,8K raw downsampled to 4K yet, I wonder if there is a possibility of backed-in NR inside of the Prores Raw files.

[Andrew Reid]

Has anyone noticed the colour science looks rather good from the S1R II and S1 II.

There's definitely positives going on with it, and credit to the Japanese engineers.

What a shame it has been priced and marketed with all the creativity of a wet sponge.

[MrSMW]

2 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Has anyone noticed the colour science looks rather good from the S1R II and S1 II

From what I have seen, yes, but then I am very happy with that from the S9 and S5ii so I would expect to!

[Thpriest]

I think that all the S line has produced very nice images and colours. I say that as someone who has noticed that the S5ii is not quite at the level of the original S1 and S5 but it’s still great.

[92F]

 

This is the price of a Canon EOS C7O in France( new).

[Davide DB]

As usual, Media Division has one of the best review

 

 

[mtol]

5 hours ago, ita149 said:

It looks pretty good because unfortunately CineD has not tested the 5,8K raw downsampled to 4K yet, I wonder if there is a possibility of backed-in NR inside of the Prores Raw files.

Also from CineD

"So here I am, happily setting up the camera for ProRes HQ, C4K, 4:2:2, 2.40:1 (4096×1728) internal recording, and what I noticed while looking at some family test footage is that the material looks a bit “lifeless”. I mean, it is beautiful and crisp, but much too “digital”. A short call with my dear colleague Gunther, who conducted our lab test, and I was able to confirm that what I see visually is also evident in our lab test. After a short discussion, we agreed that this camera is truly suffering from extensive noise reduction implementation in ProRes internal recording mode. This is why I switched to ProRes RAW (HQ) in this test."

I'm mostly interested in the H265 and H264 codecs to keep files sizes reasonable on documentary projects. I hope these are not overly detailed too.

[newfoundmass]

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Has anyone noticed the colour science looks rather good from the S1R II and S1 II.

Honestly the color science from Lumix recently is one of the more underrated things they have going on. It might actually be my favorite currently, but people don't really talk about it much.

[mercer]

I love the colors on my cheap GH6... oh wait... I'm using the Arri LogC profile...

[John Matthews]

Just now, mercer said:

I love the colors on my cheap GH6... oh wait... I'm using the Arri LogC profile...

I thought the GH6 colors looked so good and a big step up from the previous generation. I've been eye-balling one (965 euros, brand new with the 25mm f/1.7). That's a crazy deal.

[mercer]

Just now, John Matthews said:

I thought the GH6 colors looked so good and a big step up from the previous generation. I've been eye-balling one (965 euros, brand new with the 25mm f/1.7). That's a crazy deal.

I've read that they are good. I had no problem with them the first time I owned one, I had a problem with the chroma noise that the DR Boost produced in the shadows. I bought it this time because it was so cheap and I wanted to be able use Arri LogC. It really is a phenomenal camera though. Now I just need to figure out my lens situation with it. I've been shooting full frame for so long, and I have a small(ish) collection of vintage lenses that the price of any good m4/3 lens annoys the hell out of me. I've been using a 7artisans 24mm that is pretty good for what I paid for it. But I need something else.

[John Matthews]

4 minutes ago, mercer said:

I've read that they are good. I had no problem with them the first time I owned one, I had a problem with the chroma noise that the DR Boost produced in the shadows. I bought it this time because it was so cheap and I wanted to be able use Arri LogC. It really is a phenomenal camera though. Now I just need to figure out my lens situation with it. I've been shooting full frame for so long, and I have a small(ish) collection of vintage lenses that the price of any good m4/3 lens annoys the hell out of me. I've been using a 7artisans 24mm that is pretty good for what I paid for it. But I need something else.

I also had the GH6 for about a year, but I'm really considering getting one again. I'll probably do like @kye and use that 14-140 most of the time. I'm still debating in my head though. The problem is simple- there are just so many old smaller "good enough" cameras, but nothing small and modern that can do 4k120 in the system. The G9ii is the smallest.

On another note, I'm not exactly how MPB decides to offload cameras sometimes. One day, there're 20 GH6 bodies and the next day none.