New L-Mount Lumix (cinema?) Camera

[BTM_Pix]

15 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Heck, Leica raised prices in Canada and the US despite that Canada added no new tariffs on them.

Maybe they went with that old fashioned notion of believing that the actual President of the United States wouldn't say that Canada is the 51st state unless it had any basis in reality whatsoever.

Schoolboy error that one.

 

[ntblowz]

3 hours ago, Davide DB said:

An FX3II or something is expected in the next few weeks so Pana will be again one step behind.

Not FX3II consider they just released in FX3A, the next Sony release is the camera with tilt EVF

[John Matthews]

5 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I don't think Lumix gets nearly the credit they deserve for everything they throw into these cameras. You could argue that they almost put too much in. The codecs, frame rates, and aspect ratio options could be considered overwhelming by some folks. 

 

No kidding. Let's also remember that all their L-mount lenses have breathing compensation built in. Also, many of their lenses are rather inexpensive, representing very good value. Even with a "high" priced body, it'll still be competitive with the lenses factored in.

[John Matthews]

I don't see why an FX3 would even enter the conversation with a S1ii- one is a hybrid, the other not. No one would seriously take photos professionally with an FX3; they would with the S1ii.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

4 hours ago, ND64 said:

3. What they do is attractive for niche part of the hybrid market and not enough to absorb new customers. 

They could got a flood of new customers just bringing the camera that all non-professional customers are looking now: a compact stylish camera. Basically, a FF GX9.

They launched it, but without EVF, hotshoe, mechanical shutter and proper controls. And the worst kit lens ever made. I know, they want to get in the video creator bandwagon, but was a niche product.

[Al Dolega]

While I agree with most of the criticisms of Panasonic's marketing, as far as pricing goes I feel they may be getting treated a bit harshly. The S1 launched at $2500 in 2019; with inflation that's about $3150 in today's money. So not really much of a price increase, although of course overall wages have not kept up with inflation, rates on video jobs are always being squeezed, etc.

Then there's the US tariff fiasco to take into account, that has to be affecting the pricing somewhat. I bet in a year's time when the counterpart models from the other brands are out that their pricing will be similar because they're dealing with the same fees and uncertainty. Not entirely fair to compare the pricing of one of the first cameras to come out post-tariff-ridiculousness with that of models from before.

The S1ii is in at least one way very similar to its predecessor, which was also using a newish Sony sensor that had debuted the year before (IMX410 in the A7iii), but did an arguably better job with it than Sony did.

[Tim Sewell]

Kofi can be a little annoying, but I think this is quite a nuanced review. Near the end he mentions that, without mentioning these new bodies, he asked on social media what price people thought the next FX3 should attract if [list of S1II features] were added and all the responses were well above the actaul price of these new Lumixes. Anyway...
 

 

[ita149]

4 hours ago, Jahleh said:

I will wait too. The S1ii extra DR sounds nice, but not at the expence of overly sharp details with too much baked in NR. 
If the PRRaw is the only option to get rid of this with S1ii, Z6iii and N-Raw is the better option, as it works with Resolve and file sizes are less than half of PRRaw. 

After Z6iii got the latest 1.10 firmware update, there’s not much to complain about the Z6iii IQ in shadows, no need to use NR any more, unless you need to lift shadows over 1 or 2 stops. Could be the 135mm 1.8 Plena is doing it’s magic too in low light.
After 2.5 months shooting only N-Raw with normal quality I’ve got 1.5TB of footage. With PRRaw that would be over 3TB, and with H.265 only around 300GB🤪

 

I don't know about the S1II, but owning the S1RII, the mushy fine details and chroma NR are still there. Only the sharpening has been decreased a bit when using the 709 profiles.
Prores Raw is better and has nicer fine details, almost as good as on the S1 and S5 H264/H265, but it's not a replacement for me as it is cropped (on the S1RII), the files are huge, there is no lens correction (as opposed to N-raw) and there are sometimes some black/colored pixels I can see when cropping inside the footage. This is something the Panasonic ambassadors will never speak about. 

About dynamic range I really wonder if there is a real difference between the S1II (without DR Boost) and the Z6III, because Gerald Undone only tested the DR of the Z6III raw video but not the S1II (he only tested Prores HQ and not Prores Raw).

It seems nobody want to test the internal raw video mode on the S1II, I understand Prores Raw is not supported by Resolve, but still ... It could be a good indicator of the real performance of both cameras as there is almost always backed in NR without raw.

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Maybe they went with that old fashioned notion of believing that the actual President of the United States wouldn't say that Canada is the 51st state unless it had any basis in reality whatsoever.

Schoolboy error that one.

 

The 51st state of American YouTube

[Andrew Reid]

At the start of this Canadian video somebody says that although Panasonic paid for their hotel, travel and lunch, and that they rubbed shoulders with Panasonic people and consider them friends, that definitely in no way influences the positive opinions they have about Panasonic's products, which is nicely convenient, imagine how embarrassing it would be otherwise.

No matter which way the client YouTubers spin it, the S1 II price is too high and it is being released at least 2 years too late (and that is being kind, as the original was a 2018 launch).

My problem with it is not the extensive feature set and specs, it's that huge 7 year gap and the pricing strategy, along with the rest of the product strategy which is batshit crazy, and I put my money where my mouth is by refusing the invite by Panasonic to go and praise it along with a bunch of client social media click weasels.

There are so many similar options with better lens mounts to choose from now.

And the complexity is not always a good thing. Look at how much more fun the Sigma Bf is or the minimalist Leica approach.

Had the S1 II been 2.5k and the year was 2022... Sign me up.

But as it is, I am going to pass.

May get an S9 again though as it's now under a grand, it's a fun toy.

With regards to the 51st state of shilling, if you just ignore the impact this is having on independent media, the non-embargoed opinions and journalism as a whole, then it's a perfectly mediocre review that can fit on a single side of a4.

If you get big picture though, it's near enough fascism.

An entire media platform singing in tune under a corporate embargo.

Charlie Brooker should make a Black Mirror episode out of it. I might write one myself.

It would be far more enjoyable than making your average 2025 camera 'review'.

[Simon Young]

9 hours ago, John Matthews said:

The S1H with an OLPF and Netflix approval also had moiré in some cases. It's more a function of distance to the repetitive pattern and readout mode. Basically, some are better than others in certain situations, but none are perfect.

I know why moiré and aliasing occurs and of course there are differences but as someone who has had important shots ruined by it and a as someone with a heavy addiction I’ve owned and tested more cameras than what is considered to be sane.

And I can tell you this: a good olpf clearly makes a whole lot of difference both with regards to moiré suppression and the texture of details in the image. Canon R5(c) and the Sony A9iii has stood out to me when it comes to this. The whole A9-series have very good OLPFs and the latest iteration is no exception. Canon usually does well in the cinema department too and the perfect downscaled 8K to 4K and an OLPF is very effective on the R5-series.
 

There is a reason the Sony Venice and the Alexas have dedicated teams who only work on producing the most effective OLPF possible.

[BTM_Pix]

3 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

they rubbed shoulders with Panasonic people and consider them friends

Here’s a little tip for anyone being gaslit into believing they are friends with a corporation.

Friends don’t have to threaten friends with a €35K fine for releasing their free marketing material a few minutes early.

Friends don’t even have to ask.

 

[Andrew Reid]

It is a friendship, just a very transactional one. Only in this case the prostitute is not waiting patiently in Knightsbridge at a fancy bar.

It's me.

[John Matthews]

9 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

There is a reason the Sony Venice and the Alexas have dedicated teams who only work on producing the most effective OLPF possible.

Yeah, those aren't hybrid cameras and the intended user isn't here in this forum IMO (maybe the use ones). However, I would like to see a S1ii pitted against an Alexa shooting Arri Log. That would be interesting!

The A9iii is roughly double the price of the S1ii. However, the R5C is not only less expensive than the S1ii, it seems to be more cinema oriented. I still be you'll have moiré with it though. Still, you're dealing with Canon, something I don't want to ever do personally. I think Panasonic, like what they did with their DFD shenanigans, are just hoping processing and software will "fix" moiré.

Personally, I cannot believe, in 2025, we still don't really have AI options to fix it. We can basically make a whole film with only AI, but can't fix moiré in post simply and easily with the push of a button. Go figure.

[BTM_Pix]

17 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

It is a friendship, just a very transactional one. Only in this case the prostitute is not waiting patiently in Knightsbridge at a fancy bar.

I've now got a vision of the prostitute reaching for the marketing team's trousers and whispering "Lets Get Undone".

Thanks for that.

21 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

It's me.

[eatstoomuchjam]

As expected, Camera Conspiracies is not a fan.

As always, it's recommended that fanboys of any system take his trolling with the biggest grain of salt.
 

 

[Jahleh]

1 hour ago, ita149 said:

I don't know about the S1II, but owning the S1RII, the mushy fine details and chroma NR are still there. Only the sharpening has been decreased a bit when using the 709 profiles.
Prores Raw is better and has nicer fine details, almost as good as on the S1 and S5 H264/H265, but it's not a replacement for me as it is cropped (on the S1RII), the files are huge, there is no lens correction (as opposed to N-raw) and there are sometimes some black/colored pixels I can see when cropping inside the footage. This is something the Panasonic ambassadors will never speak about. 

Thank you for the info! It seems Prores Raw is whopping 4200Mbps so it’s about 2.69x more than 6k50p N-Raw Normal on Z6iii. No thanks, my SSD’s can’t take it and Final Cut is not good as Resolve for me. 

2 hours ago, ita149 said:

About dynamic range I really wonder if there is a real difference between the S1II (without DR Boost) and the Z6III, because Gerald Undone only tested the DR of the Z6III raw video but not the S1II (he only tested Prores HQ and not Prores Raw).

It seems Cined tested those for S1II: ”with DR Boost OFF in 4K ProRes RAW 25p, we get 11.5 stops at a signal-to-noise ratio of 2 (SNR), and 12.8 stops at SNR = 1. With DR Boost ON, we now get a superb 13.1 stops at SNR = 2 and 14.3 stops at SNR = 1”

For the Z6iii 6k24p NRaw on 6k timeline Gerald got 9.89 stops and on 4k timeline 10.6 stops and with some NR 12.5 stops at SNR = 2. 

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, John Matthews said:

 

I don't see why an FX3 would even enter the conversation with a S1ii- one is a hybrid, the other not

 

Also a valid point for me because if I do end up swapping my S9 and pair of S5ii’s for an FX3 and a pair of FX30’s it will be for pure video use as it is now.

I’m already with Sony for stills and having it all within one system as being able to share batteries and lenses, makes a lot of sense for me.

Plus as mentioned in another topic, it would allow me to operate with 1 less body and 2 less lenses. And that is a good thing. And at very minimal cost to do so. Another very good thing!

[Tim Sewell]

46 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

However, I would like to see a S1ii pitted against an Alexa shooting Arri Log.

That Kofi review I linked up-thread does just that, funnily enough.

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

I've now got a vision of the prostitute reaching for the marketing team's trousers and whispering "Lets Get Undone".

Thanks for that.

Now it's in my head as well, where's that ignore button when you need it?! 😉

I just wrote an entire Black Mirror episode based on camera marketing and it actually came out quite well as a piece of dystopian satire.

If anyone has any good ideas for it DM me.

But please no sad washed-up social media grifter with a cat characters.