Eric Calabros Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 10 hours ago, markr041 said: You all like frame grabs... What was ISO here? Seems its better to use SDR for NRAW when the scene DR is not too high; cause with SDR, video ISO values are the same as still ISO, but with NLog, ISO 800 is actually ISO 64 with lifted shadows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr041 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 1 minute ago, Eric Calabros said: What was ISO here? Seems its better to use SDR for NRAW when the scene DR is not too high; cause with SDR, video ISO values are the same as still ISO, but with NLog, ISO 800 is actually ISO 64 with lifted shadows. 800. But with sun shining on water, there are lots of specular highlights. And, sun on white swan. I'd rather be prepared for high DR and preserving higlights than worry about noise in shadows. On no-sun days SDR and low ISO might be better indeed. Juank 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 @markr041 I struggle to understand how and why we have to fight hard to buy or get access to some new releases but you invariably come here to post stuff from every single piece of most recent gear we've all been dreaming/salivating about! LOL : ) Are you used to buy them all? :- ) markr041 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr041 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Testing NRAW HIGH Zlog 8K 60P at Night using ISO4000 (the alleged second base ISO): HDR 8K. Nikon Z 40mm f2 lens. Juank and Emanuel 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Django Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 @markr041 What are your overall thoughts on the camera vs the Sony's you've been using heavily for the last few months? Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Hayes Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 I have been shooting with an A9 since it came out, it's been my favorite camera. I would say the Z8 is on par with the A9's performance as far as speed and AF. I really love the adjustable zone AF system Nikon has, it suits my shooting style much better than the big box Sony employs. The camera is much faster in use, from selecting AF points, to turning on, to formatting cards. As others have said, the buttons on the Sony are much more customizeable, but the Z8 is rather easy to setup. I love the F buttons on the face of the camera, so fast to get into crop mode, or change iso. I find the EVF a bit low res compared to the Sony's but do like the bigger LCD. The camera does a superb job of shooting video, it's better than my A7s3 in many ways. I LOVE the ability to crop in when shooting in 4K, something the A7s3 can't do. i got the 24-120 with my camera, it's razor sharp. I could shoot with that lens for everything, I find it better than the 24-105 OSS. My sony lenses also work great with the Megadap. In conclusion, there is nothing in Sony's current lineup to match the Z8, despite reports of it's not so great AF. At some point, I can see myself selling off the rest of my Sony gear, and picking up another Z8 or Z9, with a couple more Z mount zooms, and keep that kit for the rest of my career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr041 Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 On 7/3/2023 at 7:28 AM, Django said: @markr041 What are your overall thoughts on the camera vs the Sony's you've been using heavily for the last few months? For my use, it seems the Sony ZV E1 is the better option. I tried out the Z8 shooting my mode type of video, in a public place, and it was clear the Z8's size, and the Z lenses, make the camera and thus me way more conspicuous than when I use the ZV E1 with the same specced lens (24-70 f4). Now, for an event videographer, this is completely irrelevant- people expect to be included in video, and the camera person can carry an IMAX camera and it would not make a difference. But, I do not want people stopping what they are doing to pose. The ZV E1 can also go from 4K 60P to 4K 120P with zero change in quality or framing, so going to slow motion and retaining 60p (which I now insist) is easy. And, with dynamic active stabilization it is possible to move with the camera without a gimbal, and that is not possible with the Z8. Finally, the Sony's built-in wind muff makes obtaining audio outdoors possible without worrying about wind, the enemy of audio. BUT. There is 8K RAW. Compression is the big enemy of video. And removing one compression step is a big deal. Moreover, as computer algorithms and compression techniques improve over time, the transformation from the RAW video clips in post can only get better. With HEVC or even ALL-I clips (and those partially-debayered fake RAW's), you are stuck with today's technology, and it is far from perfect. The 30+ megapixel frame grabs from 8K video, shot in 60 fps so there is minimal blur yet smooth video, are magnificent. I can handle the Z8 fine; its AF and tracking do not seem much different from the Sony. And I have stuck on the camera my own wind muffs, so I think I can deal with wind too using the built-in mics (which seem very good). Again, I cannot rig a camera for the video I like to shoot with an external mic with wind muff, and most of those mics that mount on a camera are no better than the internal mics - cheaper, small omnidirectional mics can be very high quality while directional mics usually have limited frequency range at the bottom, among other issues. My Z8 8K 60p RAW video "test": This can be viewed in 8K with Chrome (not Edge or safari). And two 8K frame grabs: Django and Emanuel 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 9 hours ago, markr041 said: But, I do not want people stopping what they are doing to pose. How to say you're in the US without saying you're in the US! My experience travelling elsewhere is that people stop and look at you, but not to pose... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr041 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 54 minutes ago, kye said: How to say you're in the US without saying you're in the US! My experience travelling elsewhere is that people stop and look at you, but not to pose... Do you see anyone looking at the camera in any of my videos? No. There are people who look at me and my camera, for sure, but not the ones I shoot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr041 Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Sound check. Internal mics protected by attached wind muffs recording jazz: with activities: feeding, chess, boxing, typing, posing. And an 8K frame grab: And the rig: Eric Calabros and Emanuel 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 On 7/3/2023 at 11:48 AM, markr041 said: Testing NRAW HIGH Zlog 8K 60P at Night using ISO4000 (the alleged second base ISO): HDR 8K. Nikon Z 40mm f2 lens. The best footage I've ever seen shot by you. I think this speaks volumes... :- ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted July 5, 2023 Share Posted July 5, 2023 Ditto: On 7/4/2023 at 2:57 PM, markr041 said: My Z8 8K 60p RAW video "test": This can be viewed in 8K with Chrome (not Edge or safari). And two 8K frame grabs: Love 8K60p, love raw, love this camera! On 7/4/2023 at 2:57 PM, markr041 said: BUT. There is 8K RAW. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 On 7/6/2023 at 1:23 AM, Emanuel said: Love 8K60p, love raw, love this camera! Do I want it? Yes. Do I need it? Actually also yes. Yes if I am to take my work to the next level which is to go from 3 to 2 cameras with true hybrid capability. ‘True hybrid capability’ for me = being able to shoot video and stills with the same unit but also pull stills from the video that could have been shot as stills as the latter deletes the need for that 3rd body for me. The Z9 however is really the only current body that offers me that with 8k 60p internal raw so as things stand, the benchmark. Paired with a Z8 and a pair of zoom lenses (28-75 and 70-180) and that’s it for me, all my needs met. L Mount really is going to have to have the equivalent available early 2024 or I can’t see any other option to go back to Nikon after a 12 year hiatus. I would not shoot 8k 60p all the time however, just at certain specific times. I’m not totally bonkers! Emanuel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 I should add that my current pair of S5ii’s plus S1H with various lenses is a superb option and really working for me right now. They just can’t take me to the next level I wish to go to. I would…and perhaps should, have flipped this year, but the cost was the issue. Next year though, we’ll see, but I really NEED a smaller more lightweight option for ‘70-200’ such as the 70-180 options available for Sony and Nikon but it seems no other mount? In summary, holding out and hoping for an S2H from old Pannyboy and a 70-180 from Sigma… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emanuel Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 12 hours ago, MrSMW said: Do I want it? Yes. Do I need it? Actually also yes. Yes if I am to take my work to the next level which is to go from 3 to 2 cameras with true hybrid capability. ‘True hybrid capability’ for me = being able to shoot video and stills with the same unit but also pull stills from the video that could have been shot as stills as the latter deletes the need for that 3rd body for me. The Z9 however is really the only current body that offers me that with 8k 60p internal raw so as things stand, the benchmark. Paired with a Z8 and a pair of zoom lenses (28-75 and 70-180) and that’s it for me, all my needs met. L Mount really is going to have to have the equivalent available early 2024 or I can’t see any other option to go back to Nikon after a 12 year hiatus. I would not shoot 8k 60p all the time however, just at certain specific times. I’m not totally bonkers! I am in love with this camera... who is not with such level of specs? : ) So far, I haven't checked anything to not confirm it, that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hojomo Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 18 hours ago, MrSMW said: I should add that my current pair of S5ii’s plus S1H with various lenses is a superb option and really working for me right now. They just can’t take me to the next level I wish to go to. I would…and perhaps should, have flipped this year, but the cost was the issue. Next year though, we’ll see, but I really NEED a smaller more lightweight option for ‘70-200’ such as the 70-180 options available for Sony and Nikon but it seems no other mount? In summary, holding out and hoping for an S2H from old Pannyboy and a 70-180 from Sigma… Sigma has publicly commented a few months ago that they are wanting to release their version of tele 'trinity' that is special and coming sooner rather than later. I think it will be very similar to Tamron's 70-180 Di III; but they go for a better build at a higher price point than Tamron (still much less than native of course). That lens + a low RS, PDAF-ified S2H would round things out for me and keep me in L mount. Otherwise I totally agree, the Z8 is the best true hybrid option right now. I could also reclaim triggers & flashes (that I still occasionally use with Nikon DSLRs). Rumors of Panasonic using the same stacked sensor as the Z8/Z9 make sense and I hope are true. The exclusivity Nikon got from Sony are probably up as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 2 hours ago, hojomo said: That lens + a low RS, PDAF-ified S2H would round things out for me and keep me in L mount. Otherwise I totally agree, the Z8 is the best true hybrid option right now My fingers are crossed. With every system to date so far on my hybrid quest, the most difficult part of the equation has been the lenses. Sony have had ‘my’ lenses for some time now. Nikon with their 70-180 f2.8 recently ticked that box and for me, has the two bodies which again tick the boxes. As you say, something like that from Sigma paired with whatever an S2H might be (and I would suspect, jumps straight to the top of the tree), then I could go back to what is probably the wedding photographers best flexible set up which is a pair of bodies with a 24-70 and a 70-200 which I had in my Nikon D3 days. Only this time, smaller & lighter bodies, smaller & lighter lenses, albeit slightly restricted focal lengths (personally I prefer 28 over 24 so no loss to me and 180 vs 200 I’ll take the smaller & lighter lens every single time thank you) and now not just with video capability, but video capability that exceeds anything videographers had access to even 5 years ago. As above, fingers crossed for L Mount…and pretty confident it will happen, but if not, I already know it exists with Nikon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 3 hours ago, hojomo said: Sigma has publicly commented a few months ago that they are wanting to release their version of tele 'trinity' that is special and coming sooner rather than later. I think it will be very similar to Tamron's 70-180 Di III; but they go for a better build at a higher price point than Tamron (still much less than native of course). I kinda wish Sigma would do an update of their APS-C / S35 zooms too. As I really like my Sigma 50-150mm f2.8, and while the f1.8 of the Sigma 50-100mm is cool, it doesn't have the extra 50% reach that my older Sigma zoom has. I'd like to see for S35 (having a little bit of overlap between each zoom, so you don't need to swap and change it up quite so much): 12-20mm f2 16-60mm f2 50-150mm f2 Too much to dream for? Maybe. (but f2.8 versions of all these lenses have already existed for many years) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 17 minutes ago, IronFilm said: kinda wish Sigma would do an update of their APS-C / S35 zooms too Yep. The 50-100 never got much love but the 18-35 is revered by many. I considered them all recently but I’m trying to stick with full frame with my Lumix bodies. An updated version of that pairing for cropped sensor users might be a dream come true… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hojomo Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 11 hours ago, MrSMW said: Yep. The 50-100 never got much love but the 18-35 is revered by many. I considered them all recently but I’m trying to stick with full frame with my Lumix bodies. An updated version of that pairing for cropped sensor users might be a dream come true… I think the recent momentum of S35 bodies makes a viable market for sigma to release a DN version of these basic ranges. I would really like to see a new 18-35 1.8 and many fx30 (and forthcoming fx60) shooters would scoop them up in short order Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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