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Hayk

ARRI's affordable camera?

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HI to all, just wanna hear your thoughts that's why don't be too sarcastic )

As you know RED is testing and maybe during this year they will introduce most afforbale camera in their product line - KOMODO, which price will be approximately 5000-6000$

Sources:

https://www.cinema5d.com/red-komodo-what-we-know-so-far/

https://ymcinema.com/2019/10/07/komodo-6k-camera-a-badass-little-red/

https://www.4kshooters.net/2019/11/26/red-komodo-6k-sensor-size-revealed/

So here is the question, is it possible that ARRI's engineers are working or will start to work in nearest future to create affordable camera in their line as well?

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RED's reputation has been hurt recently, so it makes sense for them to try to grab lower end customers with a cheaper camera that uses non-proprietary accessories. People thinking "RED sucks it's so overpriced" will probably be ok with the Komodo since it's so much cheaper. People who own one will likely stick with RED and upgrade to something more expensive later. It's what Mercedes does with the CLA or A class, for example - They're grabbing younger people with less income and building brand loyalty for later in life when the same customers have better paying jobs.

Arri's reputation has been, and probably always will be, that it's just the best option for most situations. Part of that prestige is that the price makes it inaccessible by all but the highest budget productions.

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34 minutes ago, EthanAlexander said:

It's what Mercedes does with the CLA or A class, for example

Except when you open the hood of a Mercedes, you actually see an engine made by Mercedes instead of a honda engine.  There are instances IIRC where Red has said they designed/made something, when it was actually an off-the-self part  (like the sensor; the "engine" of the camera).

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8 hours ago, Hayk said:

So here is the question, is it possible that ARRI's engineers are working or will start to work in nearest future to create affordable camera in their line as well?

This is a bit like asking "is Bugatti making an affordable car for soccer mums to drive?" 

Technically they could, but I'm almost certain they will not. Because it would absolutely ruin Bugatti's brand image and everything they've been doing in trying to craft that. 

The ARRI Mini & AMIRA was their "cheap" cameras. (and they are, relatively speaking. Just compare their price to an ALEXA SXT W)

Their "certified ARRI" refurbished programming selling ARRI ALEXA Classics are their "cheap cameras".

I see it as extremely unlikely ARRI will bring out a brand new camera priced under $10K, and the chances of them making a sub $5K camera? Nil!

However for RED, it is somewhat less surprising (it could be argued the surprising factor is why hasn't RED done this earlier?). Because it has ALWAYS been part of RED's branding that they're the "affordable / budget value" option. That is how they've positioned themselves from Day #1. (of course back when RED launched, a camera could be very very expensive and still be massively cheaper than the cinema cameras from competitors! And with time RED trended up into the higher end markets, but even then RED still presented themselves as "giving you more for your dollar, that their cameras could do more and thus are better value)


Minor side note: I do remember years ago there being serious talk/rumors about ARRI making an "ALEXA Academic Edition" camera. Which would have been identical to their full size ALEXAs but limited to only 720p and only allowed to be sold to educational institutions.

This did make a lot of sense I thought, by limiting it to 720p they're still protecting their branding/value/pricing strategy for the commercial sector, event though this variant would be sold at a much cheaper "educational pricing". While at the same time, getting in to catch them young a new next generation of filmmakers while they're still at film school. Get them learning on and loving ARRI cameras, ready and experienced to use them as soon as they graduate, instead of having the universities buy RED Epics for their students to learn on. 

Is a pity it didn't happen, and I don't think it would make sense to do this now. But perhaps if after the ARRI ALEXA Mini 4K S35 gets launched this year (which ARRI has signaled in advance already that it will happen, 2020 is the year they're launching their brand new S35 4K sensor) then an "ALEXA Mini 1080" (using the original 3.2K sensor, but limited to 1080, and with a body identical in design to the Mini) at special "academic pricing" (exclusive to educational institutions) could be a smash hit with students. 

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1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

The ARRI Mini & AMIRA was their "cheap" cameras. (and they are, relatively speaking. Just compare their price to an ALEXA SXT W)

As someone that shoots sports/events the Amira is literally goals.

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6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Hit the gym then! And get yourself an assistant. 

Is marketed as a "solo operator" camera, but honestly it still is a bit of a beast. 

 

Sure but it can be operated easily by one user only. Superb camera.

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9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

But perhaps if after the ARRI ALEXA Mini 4K S35 gets launched this year (which ARRI has signaled in advance already that it will happen, 2020 is the year they're launching their brand new S35 4K sensor) then an "ALEXA Mini 1080" (using the original 3.2K sensor, but limited to 1080, and with a body identical in design to the Mini) at special "academic pricing" (exclusive to educational institutions) could be a smash hit with students. 

 So this is your personal opinion or it was a rumor concerning ALEXA Mini 1080 with academic pricing?  And in nowadays there is no official sources that confirms that? 

You're right because if they will make limited ARRI cameras with academic pricing for educational institutions, it will definitely help them in future to have a potential customers who will buy or rent ARRI cameras & equipment.

 

 

 

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Why would Arri go after the lower priced market? 

For every $40,000 camera they sold they have to sell 10 x $4,000 NEW cheap ARRI.  It makes no sense for one because unless sales are down you don't cheapen the brand by coming out with a cheaply priced ARRI.

Take a look at their catalog and products they're trying to sell.  They are not a humble cinema camera company. They are all about the money.

The other reason it makes ZERO sense is if they give Academic ARRI's to students (student priced) then the footage and output will look sub par.  Why would ARRI want that?

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Kodak intended to come out with a Super 8 Camera so students could get a feel for what has always been involved in filmmaking.

Not sure whatever happened with that project... that was like announced at CES 4 years ago.

Would be interesting to see ARRI follow suit. But... unlikely. ARRI is like the supercar you aspire to have one day, not one you take lessons with starting out.

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8 hours ago, Hayk said:

 So this is your personal opinion or it was a rumor concerning ALEXA Mini 1080 with academic pricing?  And in nowadays there is no official sources that confirms that? 

You're right because if they will make limited ARRI cameras with academic pricing for educational institutions, it will definitely help them in future to have a potential customers who will buy or rent ARRI cameras & equipment.

I definitely remember reading about this a few years ago, and no, it never was anything ARRI officially said they were doing, as it never came to pass.

 

6 hours ago, Super8 said:

Why would Arri go after the lower priced market? 

For every $40,000 camera they sold they have to sell 10 x $4,000 NEW cheap ARRI.  It makes no sense for one because unless sales are down you don't cheapen the brand by coming out with a cheaply priced ARRI.

I do agree. (and heh, how many $40K ARRIs even get sold? Yeah, the bare bones ARRI Mini is slightly under that I believe. But most people loaded it up with the options and get the EVF, which then pushes that above $40K)

 

6 hours ago, Super8 said:

The other reason it makes ZERO sense is if they give Academic ARRI's to students (student priced) then the footage and output will look sub par.  Why would ARRI want that?

Because people EXPECT student footage to look subpar (although many student's thesis year projects can turn out damn well!). Can't see it harming them if it is only sold to select approved educational institutions. 

And what people start out on, they're likely to carry on with in their career. So I can see how it can be beneficial for ARRI to get in early. 

6 hours ago, Cinegain said:

Would be interesting to see ARRI follow suit. But... unlikely. ARRI is like the supercar you aspire to have one day, not one you take lessons with starting out.

I disagree. 

If you are looking at it from the perspective of "a person camera to own", then yes I agree, an ARRI is very much like "aspiring to have a supercar". 

But if you look at it from a professional aspect, then ARRI is just your usual standard workhorse camera that gets seen on sets all the time. To graduate without hands on experience with an ARRI would perhaps be like getting your truck driver's license without ever being in a truck and only ever driving a van???

Now of course many film schools wouldn't own an ARRI, not even at "special educational pricing". Those small film schools are getting an URSA Mini instead, or perhaps still using some old gear like a Panasonic AF100, or even worse!

But if you're one of the top film schools in the country then you'll be wanting professional cameras from the upper end of the spectrum for your students to work on.  Imagine you're in the shoes of an ARRI business manager, do you want all these film schools to be buying and teaching their students about a RED Dragon / Sony PMW-F5 / Panasonic Varicam LT or an ARRI ALEXA?


 

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just get any raw recording camera really. OG pockets have been used alongside alexas since they were made, so were Mk2-3s...as corny as it sounds, it`s not the camera, at least not in these times.

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