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gethin

waiting for the one - thinking aloud

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I'm a nikon user. Ever since I ditched my canon 7d system and moved to nikon i've loved being a nikon user. But for the last 4 or 5 years i've been looking for and failing to find a good stills/video balance in my kit.  The d800 is too heavy and patchy for vid, the heaviness dissuaded me from bothering with the d810; the d5300/d5500 image was nice but the usability is poor. I tried the sony a6000, but it was no improvement over the d5300. I got a gh2 and loved the hacked image. I mean loved.  But for my bread and butter the shadow noise and lack of dynamic range made me move on. I kept my speedbooster though to use on my... gx85 and finally gh5, but found that rather than simplifying my workflow it was complicating it.: Better image in the right circumstance but more work -and back to the gh2 condundrum - nice image but not for my day to day. And gx85 rolling shutter made me realise a6500 was out too. 

All this time, I've been thinking - should I just get an a7r2 and compromise my stills a little bit to get usable video - but then I still have the issue of changing lenses to get nice 4k using the apsc crop, and could I really bare to part with my 14-24 nikkor?  And the little forays I made into sony (a6000, rx100mkiv), made me want to tell them about dials and usability.  But I find myself thinking the same about the gh5.  Menus for changing the exposure mode in video mode?  Blurgh? No shutter readout in aperture priority?  Oy vey!

And now finally nikon have a great stills/video camera, but its back to that BIG conundrum. Yes I can shoot great stills and easily gradable footage, but I'm getting a bit old for a workout with every shoot.  D850+14-24+crane2?  I mean my arms are getting tired just typing this tirade. 

So this is not a complaint, or a wishlist. I'm just externalising my frustration in a forum of people who are vaguely likely to understand.  I cant bring myself to compromise my still image for the sake of video, but I ultimately need to be profitable, and that means being able to do a shoot quickly. Having a camera I can shoot stills and video with would be a HUGE! boon.  

A photographer mate of mine said I'm a consummate waiter. I guess it's true: I'm hoping that nikon's mirrorless will be a d850 in a smaller form factor. And I feel like I have to wait to find out. If its not then I'll move on.  But whatever to it will be hard to leave the nikon image behind for the sake of speed. 

All of which makes me realise,  it comes down to which compromises you are willing to make.  THere's never prefect kit.  It's a matrix of your needs an priorities vs economic imperatives and pressures.  ho hum 

ps. if this is true nikons mirrorless will be the most adaptable mount available:https://nikonrumors.com/2018/01/11/nikons-upcoming-mirrorless-camera-rumored-to-have-a-new-z-mount-with-16mm-flange-focal-distance.aspx/#more-118686

 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

A lot of people are in the same boat, doesn't seem like we'll ever see "the one"

I've been bouncing between two systems - Fuji and Sony for the last couple years - after being a longtime Canon 5d2/3 shooter while dabbling in Nikon with the d750, the Samsung NX1, the GH4 and a few others. I dumped Canon when the a7rII was released, picked up Fuji to get smaller and a better lens lineup - but Fuji has no IBIS which I find to be really useful. M43 don't do it for me on the stills side, so it would be a video only solution. Everything else has its warts. The d850 is really appealing, but that would mean moving back to a DSLR and I don't like fiddling with a mirror and live view, and I don't like the OVF after using high spec EVF's.

But for you, check out the Sony 12-24/4 - there's a fantastic comparison thread on Fred Miranda that shows some prime-like performance compared to Zeiss primes. Or get a Nikon adapter for the 14-24.

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I think maybe the second half of this year through to the first half of next are going to be spectacular for "waiters".

That rumoured Nikon mount if it is a 16mm flange might allow someone like Kipon or Metabones to even make a Sony E to Nikon Z adapter.       That would mean my 55 1.8 and 85 1.8 Sony lenses would not be orphaned if I ever left FF E mount.

Might be a very different mirrorless world pretty soon.       You know it is coming, question is how soon?

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5 hours ago, noone said:

I think maybe the second half of this year through to the first half of next are going to be spectacular for "waiters".

That rumoured Nikon mount if it is a 16mm flange might allow someone like Kipon or Metabones to even make a Sony E to Nikon Z adapter.       That would mean my 55 1.8 and 85 1.8 Sony lenses would not be orphaned if I ever left FF E mount.

Might be a very different mirrorless world pretty soon.       You know it is coming, question is how soon?

Only problem is that the Sony E-mount is well protected by patents and no-one is allowed to make it.

If others could make E-mounts then Blackmagic and JVC would already have done it. Like JB once pointed out, funny how the BMCC EF was announced just after the Canon EF patents expired.

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Even though i'm incredibly happy with my GH5 I'm hoping for a great year for Nikon, Fuji and Olympus. Unlike Sony, Canon and Panasonic they don't have a more expensive cinema-line to protect.

Imagine a Nikon FF mirrorless with 4k60 RAW recording and IBIS, that would stir some pots for sure.

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The prudest way is to wait a little bit more. Once you go mirrorless it is hard to go back to dSLR's weight and size (something that is true even for Panasonic's latest GH5 and S, as they have gone dSLR size/weight territory).

We have to see the proper Nikon/Canon mirrorless to decide. Back in the GH4 era, I chose NX1 (mind you, a 16mgpxls m43 sensor vs a 28mgpxls BSI APS-C one!) and still I believe is the first true hybrid ever made, especially for people not wanting to go to full frame lenses size/weight/pricing and love the -almost - S35 native format, and NX is X1.5, not Canon X1.6, and care a lot, or equally, about photography. The sensor is still relevant, has the highest pixel count, and shoots brilliant (and very fast) photos, good enough for most pro jobs.

Wait a little bit more, buying and selling after a little while is a loose-loose experience, probably the worth of a nice lens.

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7 hours ago, Mattias Burling said:

Only problem is that the Sony E-mount is well protected by patents and no-one is allowed to make it.

If others could make E-mounts then Blackmagic and JVC would already have done it. Like JB once pointed out, funny how the BMCC EF was announced just after the Canon EF patents expired.

Maybe that is a bad thing however? As if they patent had remained then perhaps Blackmagic would have done BMCC MFT first!

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If you live from making videos...it might be the time to get a Video Camera instead and keep your nikon for stills, I have heard from this forum good words for Sony F3, FS5 perhaps Canon C200,C300 Mi, or MII, or blackmagic ones. It will be hard to find one camera that do everything that you want, it will never exist. Every time we get an excellent new camera then suddenly the competition make something different, new feature the other doesn't has and the wheel start again...

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It would probably help us if you explained what type of stills and what type of video you do.

Also if you could clarify a few things you said:

Quote

"kept my speedbooster though to use on my... gx85 and finally gh5, but found that rather than simplifying my workflow it was complicating it.: Better image in the right circumstance but more work"

What does that mean exactly? What sort of work did you find yourself having to do with the GH5 that you didn't have to do with the gx85?

Quote

"should I just get an a7r2 and compromise my stills a little bit to get usable video"

How would the a7r2 be a compromise on stills? It is one of the best stills cameras around, as far as I know.

How much of your income is derived from stills? How much from video?

It sounds to me like maybe the new Sony a7r III MIGHT give you a good compromise of stills quality, video quality, less weight. But it is hard to say without knowing what you shoot day to day.

Quote

ps. if this is true nikons mirrorless will be the most adaptable mount available:

I want to believe that whatever Nikon comes out with will be great, but I am not willing to bet the farm on it. Will they be able to source sensors with great on-sensor AF performance? And if so, what lenses do they have that will work WELL with it? As far as I know, most Nikon lenses are REALLY BAD with on-sensor CDAF, and I would wager that they wouldn't work well (or at all) with any future sensor-based AF technology. My guess was that the new P lenses are designed with an eye on working with any future LiveView AF, but P lenses are few and far between, as far as I can tell.

Have you considered how much money you might be leaving on the table by NOT going with two separate cameras / two separate systems and waiting for something that may or may not come?

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None of the cameras you've used, I would call a cinema camera.  My solution to your problem, which is similar, is a Canon C100 for video.  I can also shoot RAW on a 7D through Magic Lantern.  I've made this decision because I believe a sensor can be optimized for STILLS or VIDEO but not both.  Mostly a physics thing (pixel size).  Also, good audio often requires XLR, so you get big in a hurry.   If you are going to use one camera for both, then the D850 or A7RIII are both quite capable.  All depends on what you want to shoot of course.

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I really doubt this first effort to make a FF mirrorless camera from Nikon is going to be any kind of a standout for Video?  And you Know the one from Canon will be a total half ass effort. 4k, What's that??? :astonished: No crop factor, yeah right. :anguished: You Know they are Not going to want to Cannibalize their DSLR sales, at least not right away. I don't blame them.

Both of these company's to me either have to come out with a Sony A7r mk IV beater, yeah I know it ain't out yet, ergo, better then Sony even Has, or make a Sony A7r mk I, Maybe a Mk II. I don't see how they have any other choice. Either go Big As Hell, or just get into it. Just get into it is the safe bet, because both company's are a Safe company. Too safe I would venture to say other than Canon in the Cine line. And I think Canon vastly misjudged how much people would pay for them in the beginning.

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23 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I really doubt this first effort to make a FF mirrorless camera from Nikon is going to be any kind of a standout for Video? 

not sure - nikon could differentiate by the mirrorless not having quite as good af, not being quite as fast, not having quite the same usability.  To be honest though if they dont make the absolute best camera they are capable of (as I feel they did with the d850), they are F#!*ed.

This is my day job.  If I had one camera for stills and video I could shoot both at the same time, certain properties this would save me hours.  A7riii is the closes to fitting the bill at the moment, but it still doesn't quite have the dynamic range (or the look) of the nikon.  My experience with sony cams so far is that the usability isn't a patch on nikons, but I hear that is improving.  

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, gethin said:

not sure - nikon could differentiate by the mirrorless not having quite as good af, not being quite as fast, not having quite the same usability.  To be honest though if they dont make the absolute best camera they are capable of (as I feel they did with the d850), they are F#!*ed.

This is my day job.  If I had one camera for stills and video I could shoot both at the same time, certain properties this would save me hours.  A7riii is the closes to fitting the bill at the moment, but it still doesn't quite have the dynamic range (or the look) of the nikon.  My experience with sony cams so far is that the usability isn't a patch on nikons, but I hear that is improving.  

Well I felt pretty good until I saw this damn Video LoL. Any in the 5000 Quid range? JK. My son does those also. But I doubt they are as much as that mere house in the country cost Lol.

I doubt there is one person on here that doesn't love Nikon colors. And is not rooting for them to make it. I guess we will just have to see. I still can't see how they can come up with a amazing one, but like others have said, even if it can be a D850 in a Mirrorless form factor that have a serious hit on their hands. They Ought to be able to do that.

 

 

 

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People forget that Sony has to do the catch up, not Canon/Nikon. Sony hasn't even sell a dent of Canonikon lenses, and bodies do not create systems, lenses do. Most people I know with A7 cameras shoot Samsyang or EF lenses. I agree that Nikon is coming late in the game, but maybe not that late (or maybe it is too late, history will tell!). 

@gethin This is an amazing video, one of the better ones I have seen of this type. Maybe you should invest a little bit on your sound department, rather your image. All in all, wait for this year to fold out, and you will have a better image of where the industry goes. Maybe the first pro Canonikon mirrorless will be enough for everything.

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