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Andrew Reid

Panasonic GH5 10bit vs 8bit

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Does ANYBODY have a proper comparison video up yet?

What about a direct split screen comparison between the 10bit and 8bit mode? And does 10bit make a difference in the grade?

Aside from Neumann all the coverage this time has been total lightweight fluff. Really lazy. Quickly punted out, to collect hits. I honestly don't think any of the testers have put more than 5 minutes of work per video into what they have done. Can't find anything comprehensive at all.

They really should have given me a camera, the retards :)

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1 minute ago, Andrew Reid said:

Does ANYBODY have a proper comparison video up yet?

What about a direct split screen comparison between the 10bit and 8bit mode? And does 10bit make a difference in the grade?

Aside from Neumann all the coverage this time has been total lightweight fluff. Really lazy. Quickly punted out, to collect hits. I honestly don't think any of the testers have put more than 5 minutes of work per video into what they have done. Can't find anything comprehensive at all.

They really should have given me a camera.

My feelings exactly. 

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Well the differences in that video are so subtle I can't even see any

The colours coming off the sensor though look fantastic, a big improvement in skintones for Panasonic this time round

Is that the 180fps at the end? they didn't bother to label it... If it is 180fps that looksimproved over the pre-production model footage I saw before... not a hint of moire and very nice detail

But the 10bit needs some proper evaluation once this marketing bullshit period is over, me thinks

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10bit file needs a 10bit monitor or TV and original sources to see a difference. The GH5 10bit hybrid log gamma will be very interesting with a HDR TV.

Is there a doubt that 10bit file is not much better than 8bit? It should be.

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Well people with 8bit displays have been raving about 10bit for ages now so it's time to find out the truth

I can certainly see a difference with 14bit RAW but I'm not sure about 10bit vs 8bit YUV

JPEGs are 8bit, nobody complains

That said, the whole image processor seems to have had a hefty upgrade in the GH5 and I am still expecting good things from it

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Besides Luke, the videos released thus far have been a let down.

Regarding the few points above - I do not believe one requires a 10bit monitor to see the difference.

I use 8bit monitors, and my Blackmagic Pocket, when shooting 10bit 1080P ProRes HQ, absolutely decimated my Sony A7S + Shogun 4K 8bit ProRes HQ.

I would bring both files into Premiere, push the grade in Lumetri, and the Blackmagic 10bit 1080P ProRes HQ held up, the A7S 4K 8bit ProRes HQ did not - banding all over the place.

When I shot for Blackmagic to promote their Micro camera, I found the results even better - the new colour-science and improved sensor/ASIC showed me even more how important 10bit is.

You can tell a 10bit image virtually immediately - the colours are deep, rich, have fidelity, accuracy. 8bit images always come across very "thin" and crayon-like - especially the skin-tones.

I am liking the 10bit I am seeing out of the GH5, however, I do not think its true potential will be realised until we see 10bit 400Mbps for 4K, and 10bit 200Mbps for 1080P.

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Aside from Neumann all the coverage this time has been total lightweight fluff. Really lazy. Quickly punted out, to collect hits :)

Agreed.

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4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Does ANYBODY have a proper comparison video up yet?

What about a direct split screen comparison between the 10bit and 8bit mode? And does 10bit make a difference in the grade?

Aside from Neumann all the coverage this time has been total lightweight fluff. Really lazy. Quickly punted out, to collect hits. I honestly don't think any of the testers have put more than 5 minutes of work per video into what they have done. Can't find anything comprehensive at all.

They really should have given me a camera, the retards :)

 

Yep, I'm also so surprised about the GH5 Videos available on youtube. The Beta-Test Samples  of GH5 are out for a while now and someone could have done easily a good comparison video.

It's so worse that my biggest hope is Kai or Lok :glasses:

 

B

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150mb/s bitrate is a hell of a lot of compression for 10bit 4:2:2. In my experience the compression causes a lot of the banding artefacts in footage rather than the bit depth. 8bit HDMI out from my A7s ( when exposed properly) is very robust and takes a lot of effort to break it. GH5's HDMI out could be where the camera reveals itself.....

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42 minutes ago, Shirozina said:

150mb/s bitrate is a hell of a lot of compression for 10bit 4:2:2. In my experience the compression causes a lot of the banding artefacts in footage rather than the bit depth. 8bit HDMI out from my A7s ( when exposed properly) is very robust and takes a lot of effort to break it. GH5's HDMI out could be where the camera reveals itself.....

Using an external recorder kills everything I like about the GH5.

For the first time ever, I'm willing to trade dynamic-range for ergonomics.

400Mbp 4K ALL-I 10bit/200Mbps 1080P ALL-I 10bit will show this camera's true capability.

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15 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Aside from Neumann all the coverage this time has been total lightweight fluff. Really lazy. Quickly punted out, to collect hits. I honestly don't think any of the testers have put more than 5 minutes of work per video into what they have done. :)

I know it's not a test, but as a demo I found ICE to be beautiful.

How have you found the 10bit vlog samples? 

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Does ANYBODY have a proper comparison video up yet?

What about a direct split screen comparison between the 10bit and 8bit mode? And does 10bit make a difference in the grade?

Aside from Neumann all the coverage this time has been total lightweight fluff. Really lazy. Quickly punted out, to collect hits. I honestly don't think any of the testers have put more than 5 minutes of work per video into what they have done. Can't find anything comprehensive at all.

They really should have given me a camera, the retards 

 

 

I have to agree with your sentiments here - however Griffin Hammond's work was fantastic  - it was great to see a complete production done in low light with such a great look.

I reckon your gh3 and Gh4 guides helped sell a lot of ghs in the past- I am really surprised you didn't get a GH5 - much  of the GH5 content posted has certainly been very amateurish.

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What I find interesting is that when I so much as criticize the content and quality over in the GH5 thread, everyone rushes in to defend the work. Lots of newbies signing up to do just that. Maybe it has more to do with my magnetic personality.

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@jonpais

A bunch of fanboys and zero-content-gearheads (99 percent of them NEVER hold the GH5 in their hands) defend some "short reviews" of a preproduction camera and dreaming about Hollywood productions...;-)
Keep on your solid and pleasant real work Jonpais and never care about self proclaimed experts and lunatics, who already buy LUTs for a camera they never filmed with!

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I've never done a scientific side by side, but the 2 10bit cameras I've shot alot with (blackmagic pocket, panny HPX300), I feel like I can see the difference. Usually whenever there's a color gradient in the scene. Certain skies, lights splashing across a wall, etc. Seems to transition smoother.  

I remember flipping between 10bit (AVC-Intra) and 8 bit (DVCHD-Pro) on the HPX300 and it was obvious, no pixel peeping required.

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With GH4 and 0-255 8 bit setup unedited I see almost no banding in 8bit 0-255 monitor. 8bit 16-235 clips or final rendering result shows always banding in 8bit 0-255 monitor, even when shot originally with 14bit RAW cinema camera. 16-235 file watched with 0-255 monitor skips every 7th gradation. De-banding filter or noise/dithering helps fix banding. 

10bit is of course better for LUTs and color correction.

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The best example of 10 bit Vs 8 bit is comparing the 4K XAVC-I image from the FS7 compared to the 4K XAVC-L image from the FS5. 

The FS7 image feels more complete, whole and chunky. The FS5 feels thinner, lighter and rougher. 

But I think it comes down to more than just 10 bit Vs 8 bit. There's the codec and data rate too. The FS5 1080p stills feels thin at 10bit, the codec is XAVC-L and 50Mbps. 

The FS5 raw to ProRes 4K 10bit is vastly superior and more like the FS7 XAVC-I. Complete, whole and chunky. 

The 10bit on the GH5 is just marketing strategy speak at the moment until it's proven to be the big step up its advertised to be. Hope so! 

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