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lucabutera

Samsung NX Speed Booster

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9 hours ago, Pavel Mašek said:

It is correct but it is little bit more complicated:

If you attach f1.8 lens to APS-C camera it is not actually f1.8 but f2.8 ---> you have to convert it to equivalent 35mm aperture (https://www.pointsinfocus.com/tools/depth-of-field-and-equivalent-lens-calculator/#fmt=10&ap=1.781797&fl=50&dst=10&u=us). So it is little bit lie from lens manufactures becuase you have to convert apertures to 35mm equiv. in same way as you convert focal lenght. So until now you are correct - speedbooster collects all light and no more that provides full frame lens - so f1.8 lens is f1.8 lens.

BUT - ISO numbers are not equivalent (maybe) to compensate less amount of light coming to sensor. One example - FF camera and APS-C camera - both has same ISO 800 but APS-C is noiser. Why? Becuase it is more sensitive than FF camera and actual ISO is higher (even both has set same ISO) - it behaves like ISO 1600 on FF. With same aperture and ISO should be shutter speed same on both cameras becuase less light of APS-C is compensate by more sensitive and actually higher ISO sensor (very often also noisier).

BUT with speedbooster you have more light than APS-C expects - sensor is still more sensitive than on FF camera so with same ISO and shutter speed is image more brighter (+1 stop) than it would be on FF camera.

It depends on your point of view - you can say: with same setting (ISO, shutter speed) I have faster lens but I think is better to say that with speedbooster is APS-C's ISO converted to ISO similar full frame camera - like for example 5DmkIII with ISO 1600 and NX1 with ISO 800.

This is how I understand it, but maybe it is not completely correct.

This is how I understand things too. So by claming we will get from 1.8 a 1.4 lens is not correct at all. It suggests we are getting a better deal than we would with a FF to begin with.  Actually with a crop factor of 1.1 we will not even get 1.8, but rather something about f2.0. Still very good, but can be confusing for begginers. 

Tony has a great video on the subject:

For comparing iso performance, I find this a very usefull tool. By this example it supports what you said. The manufacturers often fudge with the displayed iso numbers while in fact you are shooting in 1 or 2 stops higher iso. This is why people complain on some noise on GH4 even at the native iso of 200. 
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=canon_eos5dmkiii&attr13_1=samsung_nx1&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr16_0=1600&attr16_1=800&normalization=compare&widget=13&x=0.6879033935123559&y=0.7132297456677982

But yes from a crop shooter perspective, the difference would be like going from a 1.8 to a 1.4 aperture when replacing an adaptor with a booster. Off course the lens should be a FF to begin with. 

The same could be done to a FF body by adding a booster (if it exists), but you would need even bigger lenses, like the ones used on pentax medium format cameras, am I right?

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55 minutes ago, carlic said:

This is how I understand things too. So by claming we will get from 1.8 a 1.4 lens is not correct at all. It suggests we are getting a better deal than we would with a FF to begin with.  Actually with a crop factor of 1.1 we will not even get 1.8, but rather something about f2.0. Still very good, but can be confusing for begginers. 

Tony has a great video on the subject:

For comparing iso performance, I find this a very usefull tool. By this example it supports what you said. The manufacturers often fudge with the displayed iso numbers while in fact you are shooting in 1 or 2 stops higher iso. This is why people complain on some noise on GH4 even at the native iso of 200. 
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=canon_eos5dmkiii&attr13_1=samsung_nx1&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr16_0=1600&attr16_1=800&normalization=compare&widget=13&x=0.6879033935123559&y=0.7132297456677982

But yes from a crop shooter perspective, the difference would be like going from a 1.8 to a 1.4 aperture when replacing an adaptor with a booster. Off course the lens should be a FF to begin with. 

The same could be done to a FF body by adding a booster (if it exists), but you would need even bigger lenses, like the ones used on pentax medium format cameras, am I right?

This discussion is an example of how complicated a simple thing.

The speed booster increases the amount of image that is acquired by the sensor, consequently the sensor receive more light, increasing the brightness of the image of about a stop.
Everything else is relative to the type of camera you use, make a technical discourse is useless, for each shot you have to set the elements in order to get the best. A light increase is positive and always helps, rather a worsening of light is always negative.
In practice, if with your samsung nx you use a lens that has a maximum f1.4 aperture, you can use it at f2.0, getting the same light you had without the speed booster, but with better picture quality (in addition to other known benefits).
Please if you want to continue this debate (already thoroughly discussed in the Internet), open another topic, please.

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I apologize for possibly complicating things. Yes a booster adds about 1 stop of light, no other way about it. I just felt a need to clarifiy since I still see a lot of people (even my own friends) thinking they are better of with buying a crop camera + booster, than they would be with a FF camera to begin with. Just because a fast lens would transform into a superfast lens. Like a f1.4 would into a f0.95. The amount of light that enters the lens is not in any way actually artificialy boosted, just concentrated on a smaller sensor, that is all, rant over.
Not completely sure if you are trying to say I am wrong or not, but if you are you are welcome to correct me. My knowledge in photograpfh is limited, so I could very well be wrong.
 

Thanks

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In this thread we care about the reality of manufacturing a NX to EF speedbooster,  what it really is, is well documented in other threads/forums/sites/articles.

Whatever little extra we can squeeze out of our excellent NX1s is really most appreciated in this community.

NX1 is an exceptional mirrorless camera that even double the price FF cameras can not compare to, so for the ocassional FF look, it is nice to have a tool for whoever cares about it. Maybe someone needs H265 4K video with a 50mm/1.4f, with the speedbooster it is a normal lens, and a short tele for portraits with the crop factor. The options are limitless. 

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30 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

In this thread we care about the reality of manufacturing a NX to EF speedbooster,  what it really is, is well documented in other threads/forums/sites/articles.

Whatever little extra we can squeeze out of our excellent NX1s is really most appreciated in this community.

NX1 is an exceptional mirrorless camera that even double the price FF cameras can not compare to, so for the ocassional FF look, it is nice to have a tool for whoever cares about it. Maybe someone needs H265 4K video with a 50mm/1.4f, with the speedbooster it is a normal lens, and a short tele for portraits with the crop factor. The options are limitless. 

good point.  and @luca, any new news for the speedbooster? thx

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On 12/8/2016 at 3:48 PM, Pavel Mašek said:

Just try to google it http://petapixel.com/2013/01/14/metabones-announces-revolutionary-adaptor-makes-ff-lenses-faster-and-wider/ 

It is similar to your EF to NX adapter but there is optical element that change crop factor from x1.5 to (I believe) x1.1, and you got more light to sensor and shallower depth of field. There is no electronics to control aperture now. Communication between lens and body is different story/project...

I confirm. Crop factor it's x 1.1

 

Immagine-compare-crop.png

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Altough your results are incredible, and I was super excited for this, I think the price is a bit too steep, considering you're comparing to a huge sucessfull company (Metabones) and being dumb only makes that separation even great.

I will be looking into reviews and all when they come out, and eventually wait for a price drop.

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3 minutes ago, Pavel Mašek said:

I can see (beside higher brightness and lower crop factor) also higher sharpness. Image with SB looks like done with different lens - so good is improvement.Very nice!

BTW what lens and aperture have you used?

Yes, I use: Canon 50mm FD 1.2 L with normal nx/fd adapter and Nikon Nikkor 50mm 1.4 AF with NX-L Turbo Boost adapter. I shot in manual mode, Iris F.2, Speed Shutter 50.

 

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17 hours ago, lucabutera said:

Yes, I use: Canon 50mm FD 1.2 L with normal nx/fd adapter and Nikon Nikkor 50mm 1.4 AF with NX-L Turbo Boost adapter. I shot in manual mode, Iris F.2, Speed Shutter 50.

 

Thank you. It would be nice to test it with same lens ;-) On bottles or even in outside in exterior.

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7 hours ago, Pavel Mašek said:

Thank you. It would be nice to test it with same lens ;-) On bottles or even in outside in exterior.

I'm sorry FD mount it's impossible without modify the lens. For use Fd lens with focal reducer NX-L you need to remove the rear metal leverage.

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3 hours ago, andre2you said:

Is there a possibility of also a speed booster for the native Samsung lenses? 

Definitely not. First of all they're only designed to cover a cropped sensor circle, so even if it were possible they'd vignette like crazy, but that's  besides the point anyway seeing as they're specifically designed for the mirrorless NX mount and flange distance, meaning there's no way you could shove a piece of glass in there and expect it to be focuseable. 

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I guess the right question is, if NX glass can be adapted to anything else. Eventually, there will be a demand for adapting NX lenses to other cameras, as the people that own such lenses are more than the people that own such lenses and care for the FF look; but that is another thread/story.

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4 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I guess the right question is, if NX glass can be adapted to anything else. Eventually, there will be a demand for adapting NX lenses to other cameras, as the people that own such lenses are more than the people that own such lenses and care for the FF look; but that is another thread/story.

there will never be a demand for NX lenses to be adapted to other systems.  there wasn't even enough demand for the camera for Samsung to continue making the NX1.  also the NX lenses are made for crop sensor cameras.  there is no expanded field of view to achieve.

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