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Germy1979

5D Mark 3 Raw in 2016?

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Today i made some tests with dual ISO mode which lets to record with two ISOs, there is possible to gain additional 3-4 stops of dynamic range for the price of aliasing in highlights and shadows (where resolution drops by half) but midtones retains full resolution. 

So, about the test - I exposted ETTR on the sky to avoid clipping, processed the files with cr2hdr and than did some grading in resolve 12. I lowered the highlights -100, shadows +100 and than raised the overall exposure + 3EV. I had to make some tweaking in nodes to avoid clipping in the bright sky after that.There was some noise in the shadows but i get rid of it with the neat video resolve plugin. I get a quite flat image so added some contrast and little bit of arri lut to the taste. And a film grain on top of that.
The sky was quite bright despite the clouds, with ETTR the car interior was very underexposed, without dual iso recovering of such amount of shadow information would be impossible.

I didnt use dualiso feature so often before but now i am more and more confident using it in some situations. In this test i used 100/800 isos, there is aliasing and moire especially visible in power lines and car interior elements but it is not very distracting and i am very satisfied with quality and especially dynamic range.

 

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs

5D3 holds up very well, especially in the highlight detail and roll off, skin tone on 5D3 at least to me looks slightly better. Nice comparison! 

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Great news for 5d3 ML users...as of today there is a new firmware build with proper implimented 1:1 (3x) crop mode http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=17021.msg165201#msg165201

This is now a live view, real time friendly 1:1 sensor reading from x3 crop....equating to a super 16 windowing of the full frame. Great news for those who have adaptable s16 lenses or APSC only glass (or for me who now can conveniently shoot x2 anamorphic with a 35mm taking lens...on a full frame camera!) 

 

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10 minutes ago, Mattias Burling said:

Funny thing is that it already had an awesome crop mode in Raw. Imo the nr1 best feature of the 5Dmk3 raw.

Agreed....but now you can finally see an accurate image to pull focus with.

Now it has ability to give accurate colour live view at full fps refresh  (non hacked greyscale low fps)...and can now work in regular h264 mode too.

I've already put in a request for a s35 crop mode, but I don't expect miracles...as it is probably harder to do than my brain thinks that it should be. 

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So I'm over a week into testing the MK3 raw vs the BMMCC. About the only things I like more about the BMMCC are its size, its faster rolling shutter, and its noise pattern; it's filmic (no stripey fixed pattern noise, but it is noisier than the MK3, even with a speed booster). The MK3 beats the BMMCC in dynamic range (graded: at least a stop more), resolution (about equal in good light, better in low light), and it blows the BMMCC away in color (I spend way more time grading the BMMCC footage).

I haven't bothered to include the A7s in my tests because it got relegated to a photography only role last year after the MK3 destroyed it in every single test.

I'm curious how the D750, D500, and C100 MKII would hold up against the MK3 raw; nothing else in its weight class does.

 

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Hi Squig,

not to put the mess right here but the A7S is just a wonderful camera... even compared to 5D mark III. I have an A7SII and a 5d mark III Raw video... and to be honest i prefer the A7SII, for its dynamic range that is better, and for the results you can get with a non hacked camera reaaaaallly low weighted files.... You should do some tests by yourself if you haven't already.

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57 minutes ago, squig said:

So I'm over a week into testing the MK3 raw vs the BMMCC. About the only things I like more about the BMMCC are its size, its faster rolling shutter, and its noise pattern; it's filmic (no stripey fixed pattern noise, but it is noisier than the MK3, even with a speed booster). The MK3 beats the BMMCC in dynamic range (graded: at least a stop more), resolution (about equal in good light, better in low light), and it blows the BMMCC away in color (I spend way more time grading the BMMCC footage).

I haven't bothered to include the A7s in my tests because it got relegated to a photography only role last year after the MK3 destroyed it in every single test.

I'm curious how the D750, D500, and C100 MKII would hold up against the MK3 raw; nothing else in its weight class does.

 

That's kinda surprising because if it's at least a stop better, that would mean the BMMCC would have only like 10 stops of DR while they claim 13 (5D III is measured at 11.7 EV DR in stills Raw). Samuel hurtdao measured the usable DR (which everyone defines somewhat different) as 12 EV for BMPCC Raw and 10.3 - 11.3 for the 5DIII Raw (with banding in the last stop of - desaturated - highlights).

I'm still impressed with a lot of the videos shot with 5Diii ML Raw but for photography it's really fallen behind, especially for landscape stuff. The current sensors in the Sony, Nikon, etc. lineup made by Sony and Toshiba have just so much more DR that you need graduated ND filters for the 5D to get the same results in landscape photography, for some other stuff (e.g. backlit portrait with strong selective pushing) you're just out of luck due to the strong banding in pushed shadows with Canon. Despite that I think the usability of that camera is best in class, I got super happy when I saw Fuji put the little joystick into the X-Pro2. Makes me curious for what the 5D IV will bring.

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42 minutes ago, Nicolas MAILLET said:

Hi Squig,

not to put the mess right here but the A7S is just a wonderful camera... even compared to 5D mark III. I have an A7SII and a 5d mark III Raw video... and to be honest i prefer the A7SII, for its dynamic range that is better, and for the results you can get with a non hacked camera reaaaaallly low weighted files.... You should do some tests by yourself if you haven't already.

Yeah each camera has it strong and weakpoints. For quick shots like on a vacation I would choose the A7S ii as well, or even for a client where the image is not really that important, but whenever on a short film where I have the time to set up my shots, I would choose the 5D iii ML RAW. 

Especially when shooting anamorphic. I now just purchased a canon c100 aswell. And that camera seems to be in the middle of the A7S and 5DIII RAW. File sizes are good, the image is not full frame but it looks great. If not for the anamorphic mode on the 5D III RAW, I would probably sell my 5D III and just use the C100.  

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1 hour ago, Phil A said:

That's kinda surprising because if it's at least a stop better, that would mean the BMMCC would have only like 10 stops of DR while they claim 13 (5D III is measured at 11.7 EV DR in stills Raw). Samuel hurtdao measured the usable DR (which everyone defines somewhat different) as 12 EV for BMPCC Raw and 10.3 - 11.3 for the 5DIII Raw (with banding in the last stop of - desaturated - highlights).

I'm still impressed with a lot of the videos shot with 5Diii ML Raw but for photography it's really fallen behind, especially for landscape stuff. The current sensors in the Sony, Nikon, etc. lineup made by Sony and Toshiba have just so much more DR that you need graduated ND filters for the 5D to get the same results in landscape photography, for some other stuff (e.g. backlit portrait with strong selective pushing) you're just out of luck due to the strong banding in pushed shadows with Canon. Despite that I think the usability of that camera is best in class, I got super happy when I saw Fuji put the little joystick into the X-Pro2. Makes me curious for what the 5D IV will bring.

I've seen Samuel's tests. I haven't shot any charts, I'm talking about graded shots taken in the field. The 5D can be pushed further in post than the BMMCC (better highlight recovery), smoother roll-off, and its less noisy. I've tested both under numerous lighting conditions: daylight, low key tungsten, low key 5600k, daylight backlit interiors, streetlight, even gaslight. In every single test the 5D had a wider graded dynamic range. I can get the BMMCC close, but it takes a lot more effort. Sure the newer sensors are better at low ISOs, but no other DSLR/mirrorless shoots 1080p raw. I'd be all over a raw hacked X-Pro2.

1 hour ago, Nicolas MAILLET said:

Hi Squig,

not to put the mess right here but the A7S is just a wonderful camera... even compared to 5D mark III. I have an A7SII and a 5d mark III Raw video... and to be honest i prefer the A7SII, for its dynamic range that is better, and for the results you can get with a non hacked camera reaaaaallly low weighted files.... You should do some tests by yourself if you haven't already.

What I know is the A7sII has slightly better colour and less noise than the A7s, and circa 2009 rolling shutter. As for grading slog: filmmaking is masochistic enough without it.

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25 minutes ago, squig said:

and circa 2009 rolling shutter. As for grading slog: filmmaking is masochistic enough without it.

Rolling shutter is the worst thing about this Sony A7SII. But grading A7SII is not so much complicated... Just use the right tools when you shoot : i use a Sekonic C700 to adjust my white balance and my exposure on the talents or elsewhere i need it to be exact... And then in post i've got no problem... Problems come when lights are mixed... as it is an 8 bits camera... But when you know it once again, you can live with it... Adjust the color temperature of your lights well... It takes time you're right...

To be honest, i've already used the A7SII for paid works and no problem !!!! The camera is (to my opinion) the least tool you have to consider on a set... I'm sure sometimes an iPhone could do the job on some shots... Great lights, great sound and you're done... And on set, the 5D mark III just doesn't do it for me... Backup backup backup !!!!! 6 minutes on a 64 GB card... Can't do full HD 25 fps without dropped frames... Some people speak about overheating from Sony... And 5D mark III with RAW enabled ? The screen on, hdmi port giving monitoring, and record for long periods and you're done... You have to stop working for some big minutes... To me the A7SII is a camera that i can trust more in. A high speed card and you're ok to shoot 81 minutes on a 64 GB card... 4K, 24 fps, 25 fps, 30 fps... slow motions, high isos... The 5D mark III is out for a long time right now...

I think choosing a 5D mark III right now to work with can be more masochistic than to choose an A7SII or any GH4... But i'm aware that this is my choice as this is my way to shoot...

 

I'm selling my 5D mark III on the topic gear sale. 2500 euros with two Komputerbay 1000x cards and 6 batteries. For the one who wants 14 bits RAW image.

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16 minutes ago, Nicolas MAILLET said:

Rolling shutter is the worst thing about this Sony A7SII. But grading A7SII is not so much complicated... Just use the right tools when you shoot : i use a Sekonic C700 to adjust my white balance and my exposure on the talents or elsewhere i need it to be exact... And then in post i've got no problem... Problems come when lights are mixed... as it is an 8 bits camera... But when you know it once again, you can live with it... Adjust the color temperature of your lights well... It takes time you're right...

To be honest, i've already used the A7SII for paid works and no problem !!!! The camera is (to my opinion) the least tool you have to consider on a set... I'm sure sometimes an iPhone could do the job on some shots... Great lights, great sound and you're done... And on set, the 5D mark III just doesn't do it for me... Backup backup backup !!!!! 6 minutes on a 64 GB card... Can't do full HD 25 fps without dropped frames... Some people speak about overheating from Sony... And 5D mark III with RAW enabled ? The screen on, hdmi port giving monitoring, and record for long periods and you're done... You have to stop working for some big minutes... To me the A7SII is a camera that i can trust more in. A high speed card and you're ok to shoot 81 minutes on a 64 GB card... 4K, 24 fps, 25 fps, 30 fps... slow motions, high isos... The 5D mark III is out for a long time right now...

I think choosing a 5D mark III right now to work with can be more masochistic than to choose an A7SII or any GH4... But i'm aware that this is my choice as this is my way to shoot...

 

I'm selling my 5D mark III on the topic gear sale. 2500 euros with two Komputerbay 1000x cards and 6 batteries. For the one who wants 14 bits RAW image.

First of all, KB 64 1000x is too slow and too unreliable card for ml raw. I have one and had many stopped recordings either. Now i use sandisks 128gb 160mb/s and have no problem at all. No recording stops with 24/25 fps ever. I used the camera during the summer in italy with air temperature about 40 degrees centigrade with no overheating issues, internal temperature was about 60 (on ML termometer) and no recording stops. I shot many short, 1-3 minutes clips though so in fact the camera had some time to cool down. The card was very hot indeed but everything worked as intended.

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KB 1000X is ok for 24fps without stopping. 25fps is without stopping... but when you control your files... dropped frames. random ones. Can be fixed in post but not reliable on set...

Outside, never any stopping camera... In a studio, with lights, 20 persons on set, mid July, South of France with 35°C outside : multiple stops... Obliged to rent a 1DC to finish the shots of the commercial... 5D mark III is not made to do some serious work... The RAW mode is a cool thing, but can't be used anywhere anyhow whereas the A7SII can...

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39 minutes ago, Nicolas MAILLET said:

KB 1000X is ok for 24fps without stopping. 25fps is without stopping... but when you control your files... dropped frames. random ones. Can be fixed in post but not reliable on set...

 

Didnt happen for me with sandisks and 24/25 fps, it did with KB 64 1000x with any framerate from time to time exactly as you said. Sandisks start to randomly damage single frames (not drop) when you set fps override above 35fps in 1080p and 65 fps in 720p mode - in almost every clip with those framerates you can find some bad frames. During over a year with sandisks extreme pro 128gb 160mb/s no single frame damaged with 24/25 fps though.

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11 hours ago, Hans Punk said:

This is now a live view, real time friendly 1:1 sensor reading from x3 crop....equating to a super 16 windowing of the full frame. Great news for those who have adaptable s16 lenses or APSC only glass (or for me who now can conveniently shoot x2 anamorphic with a 35mm taking lens...on a full frame camera!) 

 

Forgive me the stupid question, but which s16 lenses can be adapted to EF mount?

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55 minutes ago, jase said:

Forgive me the stupid question, but which s16 lenses can be adapted to EF mount?

Sorry for typo...I meant s35, not s16.

You could mount/adapt many s16 lenses to an EF mount, but due to flange focal distance you would not hit infinity (or even close). It would work for extreme macro work though :) 

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