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Mattias Burling

Panasonics new Cinema Camera? - Announcement today

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Hopefully many more iterations to follow such as AF100 replacement with same colour science, Prores and EF mount.  Have a GH4 with PCC Speed booster and an A7S II,  Still prefer GH4 as main camera,  wishing for a GH FF camera with same attributes so that i can get rid of A7S II.  

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EOSHD Pro Color for Sony cameras EOSHD Pro LOG for Sony CamerasEOSHD C-LOG and Film Profiles for All Canon DSLRs
11 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Well..... it is already the 11th here!!! They're LATE

But then again I do live in New Zealand ;-)

Anybody heard news about the Arri 6K announcement? Apparently last month they showed it at a dealers only event in LA with no media allowed.

Where'd you hear about that?  It was rumored for NAB last year, and it'd make sense as a move if they want to move on to legit 4K cameras soon, but people who just bough Alexa SXTs would be pretty disappointed.

 

1 hour ago, RubanCam said:

Hopefully many more iterations to follow such as AF100 replacement with same colour science, Prores and EF mount.  Have a GH4 with PCC Speed booster and an A7S II,  Still prefer GH4 as main camera,  wishing for a GH FF camera with same attributes so that i can get rid of A7S II.  

 

I think Panasonic is relying on appealing to the broadcast crowd foremost with the Varicam line-up.  The prices they're touting make sense for that.  I'm guessing they don't really want to compete with Canon and Sony in that price range, a C100 Mk3 might come out soon enough and saturate that market up further.

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13 hours ago, Jimmy said:

In what respect? This, on paper, competes with any cinema camera on the market. If it can hold 14 stops through the ISO range, with dual ISO, that will be amazing.

IMHO, most films are shot on ARRI (because people were making movies with ARRI cameras from a long time) or RED (because they "invented" RAW for video + high resolution and high fps). Panasonic is trying to enter this market from the top without ever succeeding. 

Maybe it would be easier to make a next-step camera for GH4 users, so trying to arrive to the top from building a base of users at the bottom. I would have gone from the 1200$ GH4, to a $5000 one, then this 18K$ and finally proposing a great all-out cinema camera. 

Hope my english is clear enough...

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True that! They're like 'hey, thanks for getting the GH4! Yeah, we are the go-to guys for video! We did it first and the longest in the segment!'... 'what's that? You evolved a little and like to get more serious? Well, hey, we got you covered... pay for this V-LOG L update and add the BLEGH brick underneath, now it's just like a proper cinema camera!'... 'And the GH4 will be relevant for quite some time ( http://www.43rumors.com/ft3-new-larger-gh4-firmware-upgrade-on-the-horizon-gh5-ready-for-early-2017/ ), don't mind the competition out there, they're not us and you've bought some native lenses anyways and video on Olympus cameras is something to laugh about, so watchya goon' do anyways?!'...

Me: :confused: ehh... I would want a serious update, have you seen the competition? Varicam means coughing up way too serious dosh as an upgrade from the GH4 and good alternatives would come from the likes of Sony and Blackmagic! Could even get myself a proper 2nd hand cinema camera! Ball's in your court, Panasonic! The DVX200 actually looks like a pretty sexy camera I'd like to pick up. But why they do not offer us something similar with interchangeable lens mount is beyond me!?

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Guest Ebrahim Saadawi

A friend swears by the VariCam 35 making the alexa look a little bit videoish side by side, and says it's closest to film colours he'd ever seen, but at clean high resolution.  He especially emphasized on the 5000 ISO mode and how there's no alteration in DR (I said big deal the C300 sensor also keeps full DR up to 10.000) but it turns out this keeps the noise floor fixed too. So much more sensitive than the Alexa and Red rivals. Unlike the Red's this can do super convenient 4K ProRes/2K ProRes at all resolution/framerates/modes unlike sticking with raw and having a proxy HD ProRes mode on the RED and NDs, this will appeal to many productions. The fully removable side control panel is cool too. And yes, looks like an ursa mini on corticosteroids in overal body shape. Overall this a good move for them as the previous 35 was too high end and too big vs the rivals. This puts it straight to compete. Exactly what they needed to do for the VariCam line. But that line is entirely separate from the AF/GH line so don't cross off an AF200 yet. This is just a new top-end model. 

What I don't like at first glance: Raw being only to External Recorders (you'll need a Q7 or Shogun or something on top). This might take out some of its use in cinema/film who are just comfortable with the word RAW. Not having an LCD in-body? Alexa/Red dont but F5 does, just for controls even. P2 media is expensive. Does it record to something else as well? 

It's a sexy design, which is needed in today's cameras success. A certain skull proves that. 

 

 

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Varicams are great cameras and this new entry will probably be great too. Most great looking films shooted on ARRI could haven been shooted with a Varicam and look just as good. The fact, though, is they choosed other brands. Even a great selling cinema camera, I don't think sells in the thousands, but most in the hundreds. So Panasonic made a big investment on the high-end that didn't pay off, yet.

My opinion was just that it seems better to do a path from the low-end to the high-end. And maybe to have the Varicam team talk with the GH/AF team would help too. I hope Panasonic listens to Andrew and go FF on the next GH!

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This camera seems super cool and lovely and stuff, but there is a MASSIVE gap in Panasonics camera lineup between the GH4 and the Varicam LT. 

Where is their competitor to the likes of the C100, Ursa, and FS7? 

It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to see a GH-Pro Video camera with: 

  • MFT mount with Super35 sensor. 
  • 10 bit 4k up to 60fps.
  • HD up to 120fps. 
  • V-Log. 
  • Ergonomic handheld style (like FS5).
  • Built-in LCD/viewfinder. 
  • Priced around FS7. 
  • Compressed RAW HDMI/SDI out to recorder. 

Would you buy it? 

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5 hours ago, Cinegain said:

True that! They're like 'hey, thanks for getting the GH4! Yeah, we are the go-to guys for video! We did it first and the longest in the segment!'... 'what's that? You evolved a little and like to get more serious? Well, hey, we got you covered... pay for this V-LOG L update and add the BLEGH brick underneath, now it's just like a proper cinema camera!'... 'And the GH4 will be relevant for quite some time ( http://www.43rumors.com/ft3-new-larger-gh4-firmware-upgrade-on-the-horizon-gh5-ready-for-early-2017/ ), don't mind the competition out there, they're not us and you've bought some native lenses anyways and video on Olympus cameras is something to laugh about, so watchya goon' do anyways?!'...

Me: :confused: ehh... I would want a serious update, have you seen the competition? Varicam means coughing up way too serious dosh as an upgrade from the GH4 and good alternatives would come from the likes of Sony and Blackmagic! Could even get myself a proper 2nd hand cinema camera! Ball's in your court, Panasonic! The DVX200 actually looks like a pretty sexy camera I'd like to pick up. But why they do not offer us something similar with interchangeable lens mount is beyond me!?

Agreed. Panasonic desperately need an updated AF100 so the *HUGE* influx of new users they got with the GH4 can stay with Panasonic and then provide willing and easy customers to buy into a Varicam LT. 

But doing GH4 to Varicam LT in one giant leap with no intermediary stage of an AF100 v2.0 in between? ? That is too much to ask of a GH4 user.

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The EOSHD article make it sound like it's a 4K Prores camera, but it only does Prores in HD, you might want to correct that.

This doesn't seem like anything overly special compared to a Scarlet-W or Sony F55, except that it can do both analog gain and digital EI adjustments which no other camera does.  RED Scarlet-W has a slightly better sensor at BASE sensitivity but has trouble in low light, and F55 can adjust EI in CineEI or gain in Custom but never both so you are stuck with flexibilty or sensitivity.  This is the one feature that seems especially unique about the VaricamLT.  Unfortunately it still doesn't even do 4k 120fps like a Scarlet-W will or like my FS700+7Q has for a while...  Anyone know where specs/whitepaper on AVC-IntraLT etc is?  I can't seem to find it.  FS700+7Q still seems to be the only one that does 4k 120fps prores and can adjust analog gain and EI (using LUTs) at the same time (not to mention being able to use a speedbooster)... 

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re: the middle ground camera.... Pretty sure Panasonic got burnt with the AF100, so no surprises they are tentative to go back there. I actually think the DVX200 is a nifty bit of kit and a better bet for them to make money from event shooters and such than joining Sony in the race to the bottom. We all want the best for our money, but I can see why these companies are not so quick to jump into the murky world of the $5k +/- camera. Also, isn't it well know that the photo and cinema divisions are completely separate?

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It seems that everybody is asking Panasonic for a FS5/FS7/C100/C300 competitor by Panasonic.

I've already expressed that when Sony announced the FS5, it would be really great to see a FS5 competitor by Panasonic.

I wonder what kind of mount would be better, wouldn't it be better if they chose a mount with a shorte flange distance - for better versatiliy - with official swappable mount to EF and PL than simply choosing EF?

Panasonic did launch the DVX200 as some sort of gap but that is much more for broadcast and events than film makers, I would had preferred a faster zoom lens with a little less range to keep the size down.

I really like Panasonic's Varicam images, they are astonishing and it has such a nice feel to it. I know they wouldn't use the same dual ISO sensor on "budget" camera but at least all the colour science and thought would be on it - since Sony lacks a bit of attention to details.

 

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If they just made a proper MFT camera with 12MP sensor(bigger pixels) so the crop is exactly 2x from FF at true 17:9 4K, good at 1600 ISO, keeps the ratios for anamorphic from GH4, at least 12 stops of DR with a better implementation of V-log L, color science from Varicam, 4K 30p(being realistic but would like more) and HD 120p, 10bit 422 AVC for all flavours with decent bitrate, ND with 3 or more strengths, 2 XLR-s for audio, SD cards, ergonomic body similar to FS5 and priced around 3500-4500$/€. Add a XL Speedbooster and the crop factor becomes 1.3 APS-H.
Keeping the MFT sensor they wouldn't canibalise their own lenses and could even make one MFT servo zoom for run&gun, maybe 12-50 f2.8.
I believe many would jump from the likes of C100 II.

With these specs, I'm not sure that I would even consider anything else that is offered now in that price range.

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Definitely "a thing of beauty". Had hoped for F55 league and price and 240p windowed and 3s pre rec and Canon mount and all got it. And I can even mount 4 mics without hassle (hello Canon and Alexa Mini...) Have optioned the Varicam LT as it is almost exactly what I need although the 240p will probably still not look that great. The Varicam 35 has a fascinating image and when I recently graded demo files in ProResLT from varicam.it comparing Varicam at 5000ISO vs Alexa vs Dragon vs F55 at 3200ISO the Varicam made them all look very very ugly. Would have loved to see a comparison with the C300II though, but that one is severely underspeced with 120p in standard def and C500II will probably have an 8K sensor and therefore a much steeper price. 

Maybe this sensor will find its way into an FS7 counterpart, but not soon, I guess. 

RED would not be an option because of missing ND filters and weak high ISO performance.

Arri Mini is probably more than double the price and now with big players like Netflix demanding real 4K I´d rather give my distributors that spec, no matter if it is visible in the final film or not. 

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masters of none looks excellent - nice clean blacks and motion looks really nice.  I am impressed.  Haven't seen much else shot on the varicam but this camera looks to be nice. I think this camera, a red, an alexa, or a sony f65 for higher end stuff and you really won't notice as much difference than the person behind the camera and the colorist.

They are all getting to a nice place.

Now it's a question of ergonomics, workflow, power consumption, weight, recording media, etc etc.

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10 hours ago, Noah Yuan-Vogel said:

The EOSHD article make it sound like it's a 4K Prores camera, but it only does Prores in HD, you might want to correct that.

This doesn't seem like anything overly special compared to a Scarlet-W or Sony F55, except that it can do both analog gain and digital EI adjustments which no other camera does.  RED Scarlet-W has a slightly better sensor at BASE sensitivity but has trouble in low light, and F55 can adjust EI in CineEI or gain in Custom but never both so you are stuck with flexibilty or sensitivity.  This is the one feature that seems especially unique about the VaricamLT.  Unfortunately it still doesn't even do 4k 120fps like a Scarlet-W will or like my FS700+7Q has for a while...  Anyone know where specs/whitepaper on AVC-IntraLT etc is?  I can't seem to find it.  FS700+7Q still seems to be the only one that does 4k 120fps prores and can adjust analog gain and EI (using LUTs) at the same time (not to mention being able to use a speedbooster)... 

How is the Scarlet sensor better? It's not all about specs. I prefer the image of 2k from an Alexa over 6k Red. Better colors, fleshiness, range, etc. If this camera owes anything to Panasonic's history, it's color science should be amazing. The old 2/3" three chip Varicams from ten years ago had better more accurate color than the latest Red of today. I can't see Panasonic going backwards in terms of color science. The only misgiving I have about this camera is that I wish the body were even smaller (under 4 lbs). I'd be curious to see how it'll stack up to Kinefinity offerings.

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12 hours ago, Jimmy said:

re: the middle ground camera.... Pretty sure Panasonic got burnt with the AF100, so no surprises they are tentative to go back there. I actually think the DVX200 is a nifty bit of kit and a better bet for them to make money from event shooters and such than joining Sony in the race to the bottom. We all want the best for our money, but I can see why these companies are not so quick to jump into the murky world of the $5k +/- camera. Also, isn't it well know that the photo and cinema divisions are completely separate?

Why do you think they got burnt with the AF100? I thought it was quite popular. 

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